From 3rd edition to HH

[Grey40k]

Dear armchair generals,

 

Returning veteran, I have been away for two decades. Personal taste, I dislike 8th edition and AoS and prefer instead the older more "wargamey" style. 9th seems to keep going in that direction, so naturally I turned to 30k. What a treat! The aesthetics, the system, it all clicks far more with me than WH41K and its primaris.

 

 

That said, I must admit that 30k feels a bit daunting. I have a pile of books and sort of a plan, but I also have a lot of doubts. I was hoping some of you could help me out a bit, it has been a tad hard finding online 30k communities that are active.

 

I want to run a list made form custodes and either auxilia or imperial militia. I am surprised that not all rules options seem to have a direct equivalent in game. I don't think that's necessarily bad;  it encourages conversions and not is not the greedy kit selling attitude we encounter in other systems. However, it also makes it hard to know what conversions and proxies are "mostly accepted" by the "established community" (read, acceptable even in most tournaments).

 

Some specifics (always in tourney context):

 

- Could auxilia be proxied by IG troops like DKoK?

- How bad would it be to use auxilia models (I love the command squad) in militia command squads?

- Can only a single allied detachment can be taken per army?

- Within an allied detachment, taking a commander AND a command squad counts a single HQ unit or two (the commander joins the squad)?

- How accepted are custodes models without explicit 30k rules? (allarus, vertus praetors, venerable contemptor dreads) Do you believe it is likely that rules will be added to include those units in 30k?

- How bad would it be to proxy artillery from auxilia or militia using static artillery models? How about using basilisks?

 

Finally, do you believe 30k is going to keep going strong, or has the game dried out over the last few years?

 

Please note that I mean no offense with my questions. Thanks in advance!

 

 

[Gorgoff]

In short:

There are (almost) no HH tournaments. We are hobby nutjobs who love the fluff, building awesome miniatures and having a good time. Competitive playstyles are a rare thing.

 

Now your questions:

 

- Could auxilia be proxied by IG troops like DKoK?

 

Sure.

 

- How bad would it be to use auxilia models (I love the command squad) in militia command squads?

 

Not at all. Do whatever you like. In fact there are no official miniatures anyway.

 

- Can only a single allied detachment can be taken per army?

 

Yes.

 

- Within an allied detachment, taking a commander AND a command squad counts a single HQ unit or two (the commander joins the squad)?

 

We talking Imperialis Militia?

 

- How accepted are custodes models without explicit 30k rules? (allarus, vertus praetors, venerable contemptor dreads) Do you believe it is likely that rules will be added to include those units in 30k?

 

Very unlikely. The transition usually don't go this way.

Modelwise: do what you want but don't use proxies. Those are by and large shunnend, and for good reason. It's all about the looks.

 

- How bad would it be to proxy artillery from auxilia or militia using static artillery models? How about using basilisks?

 

Well, I guess most people would let you do that but it looks not as cool to 've honest.

 

- do you believe 30k is going to keep going strong, or has the game dried out over the last few years?

 

Depends totally on where you live.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Gorgoff

[Grey40k]

In short:

 

Depends totally on where you live.

Many thanks for the answers!

 

We talking Imperialis Militia?

 

 

Or auxilia. I just want to figure out if it is possible to get, within the limits of an detachment of allies, a command squad and general (fill in approp. according to faction). Or instead I can only have the general OR the command squad (both are HQs, aren't they?).

 

Thanks again! As for the tournament comment, I understand that 30k is not like 40k in that regard. Nevertheless, I'd like to be able to participate and I want to allocate my limited hobby time wisely.

[Lord Marshal]

Whilst it's very recent and was previously looked down upon (in some circles), the Imperial Army troops on Terra in the Siege of Terra artwork are in gear almost identical to Cadians, only the iconography is different. Whilst it's a stretch for Solar Auxilia, they would be perfectly fittingly for Militia.

Edited June 6, 2020 by Lord Marshal

[Grey40k]

Whilst it's very recent and was previously looked down upon (in some circles), the Imperial Army troops on Terra in the Siege of Terra artwork are in gear almost identical to Cadians, only the iconography is different. Whilst it's a stretch for Solar Auxilia, they would be perfectly fittingly for Militia.

Thanks for the tip! I do not like cadians, though. I want to use my DKoK, maybe sprinkled with some vostroyan / valhallan depending on the list.

 

That said, I am a tad annoyed that I seem to be unable to get a command squad for my general within an allied detachment. That's why I was hoping I'd be wrong.

 

I have to say, 30k rules are so darn hard to follow. While I love the books, some quick compilation would be appreciated.

[N1SB]

- How bad would it be to proxy artillery from auxilia or militia using static artillery models? How about using basilisks?

Because I needed a static artillery piece when the Forgeworld ones seemed to be out-of-production (early 8th ed), I actually used the cannon from the Basilisk to be an Earthshaker Battery, with the help of a few sandbags from another range (a major Japanese model maker, Tamiya, from their 2nd World War range):

I also endorse using Kriegers as an Imperial Militia. You mentioned there's a lot of rules, so I don't want to pile on, but it happens the Imperial Militia has a very cool set of rules called Provenances. They buff units across the army to give them their own flavour. For example, we actually discussed using them to make Squats, which are actually totally supported by the Provenance rules. That might be more fun for you than Solar Auxilia, imagining what proto-Death Korps would've been like.

I'm curious, what's the 30k scene in your meta like? How many are playing, what armies do they play please? Do they play just for the sake of the game, or are they more into re-enacting events in the Horus Heresy, like do they follow the scenarios, etc.?

[m0nolith]

Hey there and welcome back! 
Yes, I can see it being a little daunting, but when youre in it you'll quickly realize that it's a deep well to draw from, so it'll give you a

 

 

- Could auxilia be proxied by IG troops like DKoK?

 

Yes, most people will have no problem especially given the fact that its a FW force

 

- How bad would it be to use auxilia models (I love the command squad) in militia command squads?

Of course. Its a narrative driven game, so you can easily explain away why why your specific force uses Aux troops in their HQ. Maybe its a militia force that lost its HQ element and was given to be under command of an actual Auxilia element currently in the zone of operation.

Or maybe this militia group simply utilizes some Auxilia tech and equipment, simple as that. As long as the story is good, most Heresy players would not only be ok with it but will be enthusiastic about it.

 

- Can only a single allied detachment can be taken per army?

 

Sadly only one

 

- How accepted are custodes models without explicit 30k rules? (allarus, vertus praetors, venerable contemptor dreads) Do you believe it is likely that rules will be added to include those units in 30k?

 

FW a few years back did mention that they indented to do the rules for some of those and bring it into 30k, but we havent heard anytihng about that for a while now so I doubt that's going to happen. On the subject of proxying, it all depends on your group and how they feel about it.

 

- How bad would it be to proxy artillery from auxilia or militia using static artillery models? How about using basilisks?

 

Again, it depends on your group, but generally people should be cool with it.

 

Finally, do you believe 30k is going to keep going strong, or has the game dried out over the last few years?

 

Actually heresy is in a great spot right now. Here's a basic overview of the Horus Heresy since it started:

FW released the Badab War books to test out the market for older types of SM armour such as MkIII and MkIV, and was enough of a success to have them go ahead with their Heresy project. Book One of the HH came out in 2012 and was a resounding success.

 

Over the next couple of years it kept on growing at a steady pace. Then around the time of mid 7th edition, a lot of 40k players were dissatisfied with the direction of 40k, so much so that many of those players left those 40k armies on the shelf and started 30k which ballooned HH to a huge size that lasted for about a year. Then a few things happened to put Heresy in a tough spot.

 

First, there was the tragic passing of Alan Bligh, the man who was the brainchild and the man charge of 30k over at FW. Second was the release of 8th edition which resulted in a lot of former 40k players dusting off their 40k armies and going back to that. The third and final thing was a massive restructuring of FW due to various reasons, one of those being the return of Specialist games which sapped a good chunk of resources devoted to 30k. Book 7 was released that had some major issues with balance, something that wasn't addressed until the next Black Book. There was also the FW currency localization debacle which was really the final nail in the coffin for some people. This rut lasted for about two years. 

 

But, then about a year ago something changed over at FW and Heresy came back on track. They released Book Eight : Malevolence which was a resounding success which addressed a lot of the issues of the previous book, as well as having a steady pace of new releases. From this point on 30k saw a steady increase of players to where it is now, which is actually in a pretty great spot. In their annual shareholder report GW named The Horus Heresy as one of their three main brands, the other two being 40k and Simgmar respectively. This means they're in this for the long run, and they would only do this if the HH was in a good and profitable spot. There's also the fact that over the last 18 months, GW has invested heavily in new plastic tooling tech and equipment, so I can see new Heresy plastic kits a few years down the line, but this is simply speculation on my part. Anecdotally, based on 30k events, podcasts and social media, growth seems to have accelerated significantly over the last 6 months. 

 

I can see another decrease of players due to the release of 9th ed like there is every time there is a new edition, but I see that not being an issue this time due to it being very similar to 8th ed and the Age of Darkness rule set is pretty established by now. Some people prefer 8th and are sticking with that, other prefer 30k so they're sticking with that. The community for the most part is tight but super open to new players, and now is a great time to join

 

So I see a pretty bright future for 30k based on my educated guess. 

 

Edit: Some 30k resources for you to help out out:

 

- the30kChannel.com - Nothing helps you get a feel for the game quickly than watching games of 30k... well other than playing the game yourself, and 30kchannel is the best when it comes to 30k battle reports

- various youtube channels for the lore - Oculus Imperia is my favorite and 40k Theories is pretty good too!

- 1d4chan.org - Its a surprisingly good resource when it comes to breaking down how the models play and what your options are. In your case I'd specifically take a look at  https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Imperial_Militia_and_Cults_(30k)

Edited June 6, 2020 by m0nolith

[Grey40k]

Thanks a lot for the thoughtful replies; I ll get through it in more detail but just wanted to say that I read it and it’s very helpful.

[Billy the Squid]

I've recently been getting back into warhammer, I stopped playing 40k in the 4th edition so coming back to the hobby was a bit of a shock, although I'm very happy the HH has taken off the way it has, despite a few bumps along the way. 

 

It can be very daunting, with a full 8 campaign books to go through, lists for all the Astartes Legions, Legio Custodes, The silent Sisters, Mechanicum forces and Imperial Army, cults and the Solar Auxilia, throw in rules for zone mortalis games FAQs, Dark Angels Legion list coming up, Night Lords getting an expansion and the Dark Mechanicum on their way in the future .... and it can get a bit mind boggling.

 

As to what models you can use, I think the Death Korps would be perfectly acceptable, the Imperial Army of the Great Crusade was so vast that there was never any attempt to even standardise the equipment and doctrines, if anything using the Death Korps would be desirable (plus the FW models are awesome and fit in well with the steam punk style of the FW Solar Auxilia models) As long as it's fairly obvious what each model represents and you let your opponent know I think most players in HH are pretty reasonable. 

 

There are some pdf refrence sheets for 7th edition 40k floating round the net, they're not HH specific, but as HH is based on 7th ed. the core rules for 7th ed. on the reference sheets make it easy to navigate through the campaign books without having to flick back and forth between specific rule sets and the core rules. 

 

Edit: 

I have a pdf version of the references if you need them 

Edited June 6, 2020 by Billy the Squid

[The Scorpion]

 

FW released the Badab War books to test out the market for older types of SM armour such as MkIII and MkIV, and was enough of a success to have them go ahead with their Heresy project. Book One of the HH came out in 2012 and was a resounding success.

 

 

Badab War was the Golden Age of Space Marines lore and modelling.

[Pacific81]

@Grey40k, you have to remember also that the entire Pre-Heresy scene started off with no Forge World books, no official miniatures, no official support in any way. Literally just the TCG and the original art books, then the first Black Library books, that fired the imagination of a group of hobbyists to start creating 30k-era conversions. As a niche within the 40k hobby, it was able to subsist and grow on that for many years. 

 

The reason for this is that it's such a cool concept. I think whatever GW does with 40k now, whichever direction they take it in, even if it does go all WHFB-style end-times and the concepts, miniatures and rules get more and more OTT and away from what you want to play, there will always be pre-heresy and the Heresy itself. 

 

So.. I would say definitely don't worry about long-term feasibility, there will still be groups playing whatever you want to play (of course, whenever things like tournaments and events become a safe prospect again), even getting into nitty-gritty of troop dispositions and legal requirements, just collect and build what you want to do, as you imagine it, and you'll have a great deal of fun along the way. 

 

 

 

 

FW released the Badab War books to test out the market for older types of SM armour such as MkIII and MkIV, and was enough of a success to have them go ahead with their Heresy project. Book One of the HH came out in 2012 and was a resounding success.

 

 

Badab War was the Golden Age of Space Marines lore and modelling.

 

 

I would say the very early days of the mid to late 00's! Having to buy boxes of khorne berserkers just for the helms (bunny ears removed of course), re-sculpting mk7 components, drilling and attaching modelling railway rivets to create mk5 armour, Tomb King bits for Thousand Sons - man that took some commitment! :) 

[Grey40k]

I also endorse using Kriegers as an Imperial Militia.  You mentioned there's a lot of rules, so I don't want to pile on, but it happens the Imperial Militia has a very cool set of rules called Provenances.  They buff units across the army to give them their own flavour.  For example, we actually discussed using them to make Squats, which are actually totally supported by the Provenance rules.  That might be more fun for you than Solar Auxilia, imagining what proto-Death Korps would've been like.

 

I'm curious, what's the 30k scene in your meta like?  How many are playing, what armies do they play please?  Do they play just for the sake of the game, or are they more into re-enacting events in the Horus Heresy, like do they follow the scenarios, etc.?

 

 

Thanks for the tips. Awesome conversion, very fitting! As for militia vs auxilia, this is a tough call. I would have liked to have "order" equivalents (which Auxilia do have), but then that constraints you flavor wise. I'll think about it while I paint. Something I do think is a bit missing is the possibility of customizing militia force commanders a bit more. The warlord traits seem a bit lacking.

 

Finally, as for the scene, I have to admit I have absolutely no clue. I moved to a different country recently, and I haven't had the chance to explore it. In part, this is why I worry a bit more about having "legal" armies. Moving around so much makes me want to have a force that is safe to use wherever I want, or if I want to attend events.

 

 

So I see a pretty bright future for 30k based on my educated guess. 

 

Edit: Some 30k resources for you to help out out:

 

- the30kChannel.com - Nothing helps you get a feel for the game quickly than watching games of 30k... well other than playing the game yourself, and 30kchannel is the best when it comes to 30k battle reports

- various youtube channels for the lore - Oculus Imperia is my favorite and 40k Theories is pretty good too!

- 1d4chan.org - Its a surprisingly good resource when it comes to breaking down how the models play and what your options are. In your case I'd specifically take a look at  https://1d4chan.org/wiki/Warhammer_40,000/Tactics/Imperial_Militia_and_Cults_(30k)

 

 

That was a very helpful reply, I do honestly appreciate the time you took to write this and I have checked the links suggested. Again, thank you.

 

I've recently been getting back into warhammer, I stopped playing 40k in the 4th edition so coming back to the hobby was a bit of a shock, although I'm very happy the HH has taken off the way it has, despite a few bumps along the way. 

 

It can be very daunting, with a full 8 campaign books to go through, lists for all the Astartes Legions, Legio Custodes, The silent Sisters, Mechanicum forces and Imperial Army, cults and the Solar Auxilia, throw in rules for zone mortalis games FAQs, Dark Angels Legion list coming up, Night Lords getting an expansion and the Dark Mechanicum on their way in the future .... and it can get a bit mind boggling.

 

As to what models you can use, I think the Death Korps would be perfectly acceptable, the Imperial Army of the Great Crusade was so vast that there was never any attempt to even standardise the equipment and doctrines, if anything using the Death Korps would be desirable (plus the FW models are awesome and fit in well with the steam punk style of the FW Solar Auxilia models) As long as it's fairly obvious what each model represents and you let your opponent know I think most players in HH are pretty reasonable. 

 

There are some pdf refrence sheets for 7th edition 40k floating round the net, they're not HH specific, but as HH is based on 7th ed. the core rules for 7th ed. on the reference sheets make it easy to navigate through the campaign books without having to flick back and forth between specific rule sets and the core rules. 

 

Edit: 

I have a pdf version of the references if you need them 

 

Glad to meet fellow old timers! I think I am covered rules wise, I got a pile of them but I am happy to go through it. My issue was more in understanding what was up to date, but I think I figured it out. Many thanks, in any case, for the offer.

 

 

@Grey40k, you have to remember also that the entire Pre-Heresy scene started off with no Forge World books, no official miniatures, no official support in any way. Literally just the TCG and the original art books, then the first Black Library books, that fired the imagination of a group of hobbyists to start creating 30k-era conversions. As a niche within the 40k hobby, it was able to subsist and grow on that for many years. 

 

The reason for this is that it's such a cool concept. I think whatever GW does with 40k now, whichever direction they take it in, even if it does go all WHFB-style end-times and the concepts, miniatures and rules get more and more OTT and away from what you want to play, there will always be pre-heresy and the Heresy itself. 

 

So.. I would say definitely don't worry about long-term feasibility, there will still be groups playing whatever you want to play (of course, whenever things like tournaments and events become a safe prospect again), even getting into nitty-gritty of troop dispositions and legal requirements, just collect and build what you want to do, as you imagine it, and you'll have a great deal of fun along the way. 

 

 

 

 

FW released the Badab War books to test out the market for older types of SM armour such as MkIII and MkIV, and was enough of a success to have them go ahead with their Heresy project. Book One of the HH came out in 2012 and was a resounding success.

 

 

Badab War was the Golden Age of Space Marines lore and modelling.

 

 

I would say the very early days of the mid to late 00's! Having to buy boxes of khorne berserkers just for the helms (bunny ears removed of course), re-sculpting mk7 components, drilling and attaching modelling railway rivets to create mk5 armour, Tomb King bits for Thousand Sons - man that took some commitment!

I love where HH comes from; IMHO it is the hobby done right. At the same time, I can understand that there are enormous fixed costs to get into it. IMHO starting sets are very needed if the game is to flourish. Nevertheless, I am buying models to paint, to a large extent, so I will enjoy that no matter what.

[Gorgoff]

"Or auxilia. I just want to figure out if it is possible to get, within the limits of an detachment of allies, a command squad and general (fill in approp. according to faction). Or instead I can only have the general OR the command squad (both are HQs, aren't they?)."

Imperialis Militia Don't have a command squad.

They have a Force Commander or a Imperialis Auxilia Platoon Command Cadre which is two things:

A little commander with his entourage and a real mouthful to say. ;)

Same with the Solar Auxilia by the way.

[Grey40k]

"Or auxilia. I just want to figure out if it is possible to get, within the limits of an detachment of allies, a command squad and general (fill in approp. according to faction). Or instead I can only have the general OR the command squad (both are HQs, aren't they?)."

Imperialis Militia Don't have a command squad.

They have a Force Commander or a Imperialis Auxilia Platoon Command Cadre which is two things:

A little commander with his entourage and a real mouthful to say.

Same with the Solar Auxilia by the way.

 

Makes sense. It is a tad sad, though, since it is seems (to me) that auxilia and militia benefit more from having command squads (which is quite fitting) whereas other forces don't have such a regimented structure. Not allowing this in allies is a pity. For militia, it just means you will always have a lone force commander. Alas, tough choices.

[Gorgoff]

 

 

"Or auxilia. I just want to figure out if it is possible to get, within the limits of an detachment of allies, a command squad and general (fill in approp. according to faction). Or instead I can only have the general OR the command squad (both are HQs, aren't they?)."

Imperialis Militia Don't have a command squad.

They have a Force Commander or a Imperialis Auxilia Platoon Command Cadre which is two things:

A little commander with his entourage and a real mouthful to say.

Same with the Solar Auxilia by the way.

Makes sense. It is a tad sad, though, since it is seems (to me) that auxilia and militia benefit more from having command squads (which is quite fitting) whereas other forces don't have such a regimented structure. Not allowing this in allies is a pity. For militia, it just means you will always have a lone force commander. Alas, tough choices.

Nah, I guess I wasn't clear enough.

Both Imperialis Militia as well as Solar Auxilia have command squads which already include a commander. It is just not the big commander.

[Pacific81]

 

I love where HH comes from; IMHO it is the hobby done right. At the same time, I can understand that there are enormous fixed costs to get into it. IMHO starting sets are very needed if the game is to flourish. Nevertheless, I am buying models to paint, to a large extent, so I will enjoy that no matter what.

 

 

yes it's super, super expensive. Sadly a big barrier to entry and will stop it from ever becoming mainstream. 

 

There are a few cheaper ways you can try, some of which are kind of a hangover from the early pre-heresy modelling days (before the FW minis were available)

- Use plastics to bulk out squads. Yes I know rivet counters will bulk, but there are some cheaply available 40k-era plastics that are suitable for pre-heresy. Still get the lovely FW character pieces, but bulking out most of your units (tacticals etc) with these would knock down the cost considerably. There are also some quality 3rd party producers (Maxmini, Kromlech etc.) that do a good range of helmets, backpack designs and things like that, which look quite pre-heresy. 

- Make a Pre-heresy army in 6 mil scale (you'll be able to make a pretty substantial horde of little marines for the cost of a couple of FW units :) )

[Grey40k]

 

 

I love where HH comes from; IMHO it is the hobby done right. At the same time, I can understand that there are enormous fixed costs to get into it. IMHO starting sets are very needed if the game is to flourish. Nevertheless, I am buying models to paint, to a large extent, so I will enjoy that no matter what.

 

 

yes it's super, super expensive. Sadly a big barrier to entry and will stop it from ever becoming mainstream. 

 

There are a few cheaper ways you can try, some of which are kind of a hangover from the early pre-heresy modelling days (before the FW minis were available)

- Use plastics to bulk out squads. Yes I know rivet counters will bulk, but there are some cheaply available 40k-era plastics that are suitable for pre-heresy. Still get the lovely FW character pieces, but bulking out most of your units (tacticals etc) with these would knock down the cost considerably. There are also some quality 3rd party producers (Maxmini, Kromlech etc.) that do a good range of helmets, backpack designs and things like that, which look quite pre-heresy. 

- Make a Pre-heresy army in 6 mil scale (you'll be able to make a pretty substantial horde of little marines for the cost of a couple of FW units )

 

It is quite clearly priced with an specific audience in mind; that's without getting into the margins GW gets on this (because it is pointless).

 

In any case, I think there are ways (2nd hand and so on) to get them cheaper, if that's a priority. In my experience, the thing that stops people from buying more is not always the price, but rather the surprise at having to pay as much for the miniatures, which they'd expect to be cheaper. One can think of many clothing items with also enormous margins, or whatever other hobbies / collections one might choose. But a toy tank costing over 100 bucks? That sounds like a bad proposition to many people.

 

Being creative with 3rd party bits has always been an option, and GW has been increasingly hostile towards it. As they start to reclaim more and more of the tournament scene through specific partnerships with the organizers, they have managed to impose more rules on it (from what I have seen).

 

In any case, I am have made up my mind regarding how much I want to spend :)

[Spagunk]

 

- Could auxilia be proxied by IG troops like DKoK?

 

 

As other stated, it largely depends on your group but I feel that it really depends on how far you go with making them your own.

 

Here is a guy I follow (I know him IRL) that makes a great case for using DKoK for 30k AND making it distinctly theirs: https://www.instagram.com/powerfisted30k/

[Billy the Squid]

 

 

- Could auxilia be proxied by IG troops like DKoK?

 

 

As other stated, it largely depends on your group but I feel that it really depends on how far you go with making them your own.

 

Here is a guy I follow (I know him IRL) that makes a great case for using DKoK for 30k AND making it distinctly theirs: https://www.instagram.com/powerfisted30k/

 

 

I really like the Mad Cat Mk II style Deredo dreadnought, I'm a big fan of Mechwarrior and yet I never realised how cool and relatively straightforward it is to make such a conversion. 

[Pacific81]

 

 

 

I love where HH comes from; IMHO it is the hobby done right. At the same time, I can understand that there are enormous fixed costs to get into it. IMHO starting sets are very needed if the game is to flourish. Nevertheless, I am buying models to paint, to a large extent, so I will enjoy that no matter what.

 

 

yes it's super, super expensive. Sadly a big barrier to entry and will stop it from ever becoming mainstream. 

 

There are a few cheaper ways you can try, some of which are kind of a hangover from the early pre-heresy modelling days (before the FW minis were available)

- Use plastics to bulk out squads. Yes I know rivet counters will bulk, but there are some cheaply available 40k-era plastics that are suitable for pre-heresy. Still get the lovely FW character pieces, but bulking out most of your units (tacticals etc) with these would knock down the cost considerably. There are also some quality 3rd party producers (Maxmini, Kromlech etc.) that do a good range of helmets, backpack designs and things like that, which look quite pre-heresy. 

- Make a Pre-heresy army in 6 mil scale (you'll be able to make a pretty substantial horde of little marines for the cost of a couple of FW units )

 

 

 

Being creative with 3rd party bits has always been an option, and GW has been increasingly hostile towards it. As they start to reclaim more and more of the tournament scene through specific partnerships with the organizers, they have managed to impose more rules on it (from what I have seen).

 

In any case, I am have made up my mind regarding how much I want to spend

 

 

I suppose the main thing is that you clear in your own mind, in terms of budgeting and things like that.

 

About GW's hostility towards 3rd party stuff, I have always thought that was people commenting on it being there rather than an actual thing. Going back some years now, but a chap I knew had an army displayed in the cabinets of Warhammer World (of all places) that featured 3rd party bits predominantly. Again, going back some years, I played in several 'official' events and tournaments with heavily converted miniatures (many of which featured lots of garage bits) against dozens of opponents and not once did any player or 'official' (if you want to name the dude that organised it) have anything to say about it. In fact, usually the opposite, as by and large conversion and attempts to individualise your force are generally commended. So my experience (at least in the UK) should support you doing whatever you like with your army, from a modelling perspective. 

 

Have to remember that the copyrighting/legal challenge stuff (which admittedly has become much quieter over recent years) was always from legal department who were paid to do just that. It wasn't from the core GW staff community and gamers, I'm sure most of whom couldn't give a damn that the exhaust nozzles on your Mk2 armour back pack have come from Shapeways. :) 

Edited June 11, 2020 by Pacific81

[Spagunk]

 

 

 

I really like the Mad Cat Mk II style Deredo dreadnought, I'm a big fan of Mechwarrior and yet I never realised how cool and relatively straightforward it is to make such a conversion. 

 

The guy is pretty nutso with hams. He once did an entire 2k pt custom admech army in like a month for last LVO. He also built a chaos portal type thing for them as a display. He's a machine for busting out high quality, super custom armies.

[Mogsam]

If someone has an issue with you bringing any of the Imperial Guard models as militia, be they cadian or DKoK, then I wouldn't worry about playing with them for long!

 

The imperial army is so massive, it would contain any number of different types of people from different types of worlds and you can justify just about anything. 

 

As said above, you can take a command squad with a commander, but that commander isn't the best commander available. In all honesty, the main kicker about it is that you can't easily get a transport for a force commander as all the standard units come in 10+, eliminating the 10 space transports as options. If you aren't bothered about transports, then he can join any unit and have a big "command squad" of the general troopers with banners etc. They just won't give him extra rules. 

 

Heresy is all about going big or going home. A unit of 5 command models are doomed in marine lists, let alone militia lists!

Edited June 12, 2020 by Mogsam