Thoughts on Prepping for 9e

[WAR]

How do you guys feel about running sternguard with the base special bolters? I love the lore of them being icy-veined marksman machines. But I don't know how well it'll translate to the table top (I never played 8th ed)

As a former Crimson Fist Player I love Sternguard. I am planning 2 5 man squads for my Raptors. 

 

Sternguard were great in in 7th

Im not sure I used them in 8th, maybe kmce

They were relatively expensive and very squishy for what they did

 

Maybe with points adjustments they might have more of a niche

It's a shame though I have 15 of them and the base bolters seem to have potential but you do have a to build a strategy around them

 

I know I took 5 in a game with my Crimson Fists as body guard for my LT in 8th. Between the LT and Sternguard killing the Ravenwing knights in shooting then melee phase worth the points. but I am pretty sure it was a low point game. 

 

 

Sternguard were great in in 7th

Im not sure I used them in 8th, maybe kmce

They were relatively expensive and very squishy for what they did

 

Maybe with points adjustments they might have more of a niche

It's a shame though I have 15 of them and the base bolters seem to have potential but you do have a to build a strategy around them

I am leaning towards more fluffy lists, which is why i want to include them. But I also don't want to get crushed all the time for being fluffy. Need to try and make a good balance.

 

EDIT: 5 with their special bolters are 85 pts now

 

 

Always take a melee weapon on the sgt. Normally I take a powerfist or axe (only cause i have a cool looking tomahawk from shapeways for them). Since I am running the 10th, I plan on using a squad to MoA with my HQ

[MajorNese]

Sternguard are as fragile as any firstborn marines, but their firepower, combined with doctrines, is quite impressive for their points cost. Drop them in turn 2, in rapid fire range, and with tac doctrine that's AP-3. Masterful Marksmanship gives +1 to wound, so math-wise they behave rather close to un-overcharged plasma guns.

 

In my case - I wait for my Indomitus box to arrive (which should be in a few hours), build the bikers first, then wait for Battlescribe/Munitorum to update the points of my usual units. Trying to calculate that from leaks is too much hassle for me, it's not like I have lots of games going on at the moment. I'd rather continue to clear my backlog than to waste my time chasing leaks, when the full picture is less than a week away.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Just going to point out that pending a faq, we've been instructed not to use the mechanics in indomitus past the units in that box. Plasma still gets modified to be safe/mega explode.

[thewarriorhunter]

They've released an FAQ for the box already. One thing addressed was the interaction between the Storm Shields and potentially putting artificer armor on the bladestorm captain.

[MajorNese]

Just going to point out that pending a faq, we've been instructed not to use the mechanics in indomitus past the units in that box. Plasma still gets modified to be safe/mega explode.

At least in the past, a new rules release with common wargear meant that was the new ruleset, even for other units using that piece of wargear. Engine War for example changed one AdMech weapon to only proc on an unmodified 6, not 6+ (that could be modified to 4+), and that change was FAQed now for the other weapon of that type, that was specific to a unit not listed in the Engine War profiles.

 

Anyhow, the Indomitus box only has a new profile for plasma pistols, so any other plasma weapon remains unchanged due to lack of new rules. 9th edition BRB doesn't have anything on plasma or other overheating weapons, at least I haven't found anything on that on my first reading pass.

[Dracos]

I’m jealous you have the rules for 9e already

 

I’ve tried adjusting my list with the leaks and never satisfied with the reliability of how they are being presented. So yeah wait for BattleScribe before deep diving a list myself

Edited July 23, 2020 by Dracos

[SkimaskMohawk]

I’m jealous you have the rules for 9e already

 

I’ve tried adjusting my list with the leaks and never satisfied with the reliability of how they are being presented. So yeah wait for BattleScribe before deep diving a list myself

They've been pretty widely available for a couple of weeks now. Not hard to find on line or anything.

 

@majornese of course things can change; most people expect an actual day 1 faq to tighten up the pre-release faq that's currently out. But until they do another faq cycle and explicitly change it, plasma stays the way it is and explicitly not like the plasma from indomitus.

Edited July 23, 2020 by SkimaskMohawk

[MajorNese]

I’m jealous you have the rules for 9e already

 

I’ve tried adjusting my list with the leaks and never satisfied with the reliability of how they are being presented. So yeah wait for BattleScribe before deep diving a list myself

Only the rulebook from the Indomitus box, since that one came early. Clears up a few of the details not leaked that publicly, but besides giving the full picture in one go, it's nothing groundbreakingly new.

 

 

@majornese of course things can change; most people expect an actual day 1 faq to tighten up the pre-release faq that's currently out. But until they do another faq cycle and explicitly change it, plasma stays the way it is and explicitly not like the plasma from indomitus.

I fully expect the plasma change to happen, it's only a question when they do it. Given that the lethal overcharge mechanic is so far spread over most codices, it would be bonkers to wait for the next codex wave to update it, since that will take years, and armies would have advantages/disadvantages solely based on codex age. But the current wave of FAQs only updated some weapons that proc on certain rolls, so why did they not change it with those? The AdMech FAQ for example now only procs on unmodified 6s, but still have plasma with a modified 1.

 

Either way - Astartes have another release wave soon, it might get changed there.

[Sergeant_Angle]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IRnHYqQfUNymy6be2vn9iZAczaR8HTblA-Id1qEBnlU/htmlview?usp=sharing&pru=AAABc25Bv_o*im7I4Nft5UhqDHrQxF5BUw#

 

I've been using this for the points. It remains to be seen just how accurate it is.

[Dracos]

I’m picking up the chapter approved books Saturday with my Indomitus box. I got 100 bucks trade value from an online dealer so I’m excited about that.

 

I’m going to go over the points and missions over the weekend and see how my list shapes up. After that I’m going to make a post for each mission for I’m going to plan for maxing the Primaries. The Secondaries are so opponent situational that I’ll leave reviewing those for later date.

[Alcyon]

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IRnHYqQfUNymy6be2vn9iZAczaR8HTblA-Id1qEBnlU/htmlview?usp=sharing&pru=AAABc25Bv_o*im7I4Nft5UhqDHrQxF5BUw#

 

I've been using this for the points. It remains to be seen just how accurate it is.

 

It looks fairly accurate other than the % change doesn't seem to take into account the changing points of the weapons, so you have to do an extra step to get a sense of whether the unit actually increased as much as indicated or whether the weapon is now free, etc. I'm with Dracos, just trying to wait for Battlescribe and keep painting. As of right now, I have a squad of Intercessors, a Primaris Captain and an Invictor Warsuit on top of all the incoming Indomitus stuff and I feel pretty snowed in. Plus, having played against/with Blood Angels a few times recently, I feel like the Vanguard box contents are super weak against them and want to get Aggressors and Hellblasters immediately. We'll see how the Bladeguard do.

[Espresso]

I think that my preparation for the 9th will be as simple as painting an Invictor Battlesuit. The flamer variant is probably one of the best SM units with the new rules and with the added bonus that is quite iconic for the stealthy Raven Guard. 

[MajorNese]

Yeah, I guess I need to put together my second Invictor in the comparably near future. But damn, trying to clear the backlog rather exposed more unfinished stuff than it actually reduced by painting.

 

So yeah...the first primaris biker is built, I hope I can build the remaining two on the weekend, and cast the necessary texture for the bases.

And in that go, I should also finish my (currently built) chaplain duo - one for the phobos company, one for the non-phobos company.

Then it's back to AdMech for that recently basecoated questoris knight...

[Dracos]

I think that my preparation for the 9th will be as simple as painting an Invictor Battlesuit. The flamer variant is probably one of the best SM units with the new rules and with the added bonus that is quite iconic for the stealthy Raven Guard. 

 

Nothing says stealth like a 20ft tall hellfire-spewing wanna-be robot klanking about pre-game battlefield .... which is why I have two

 

I haven't said it I think, Welcome to the Ravenspire Espresso. Looking forward to walking into 9e with all my Brothers of Corax.

Edited July 24, 2020 by Dracos

[MajorNese]

Nothing says stealth like a 20ft tall hellfire-spewing wanna-be robot klanking about pre-game battlefield .... which is why I have two

Nah...autocannons with silencers could be the way to go.

Though flamers being able to fire while in CC does sound tasty.

[Riddlesworth]

I built mine with flamers. In the 9th rules I actually think automation is the better pick but I'll hang onto my flamey bois to make them work

[AenarIT]

Nah...autocannons with silencers could be the way to go.

Though flamers being able to fire while in CC does sound tasty.

The autocannons can fire in combat as well, but with a -1 to hit (heavy weapon).

 

I'm starting to finalize my list and I'm sure that I won't leave home without at least 2x3 Eradicators. One of the two squads in deepstrike, maybe both. 

Playing as a RG successor with Master Artisans and Long-range Marksmen they get double the rerolls (depending on how the "shoot twice" gets FAQ'd) and get in melta range at 13.5", allowing to do it while staying out of Infiltrators, Auspex Scan and similar 12" bubbles. Two squads deepstriking in statistically take down a Knight (even with Rotate Ion Shields) in a single turn. Bonkers.

I'm resigned to the fact that they'll go up in point by 40-50% with the next update, but for now I'll enjoy the cheese :D

 

 

[MajorNese]

I've started looking into sources for further primaris bikes, with (if all goes well) 3 full sets possible.

With the biker chaplain and Swift and Deadly that would be fixed 20" movement and still charging...dang...

[Sergeant_Angle]

NEW SNEAK PEAK OF RG CHAPTER TACTICS FROM THE NEW CODEX

 

Raven Guard: 1) count as being in Light Cover if the attacker is more than 18" away and 2) INFANTRY only count as being in Dense Cover if the attacker is more than 12" away.

 

Here is my source:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/hxmozp/new_sm_codex_coming_in_october_2020_with_updated/

[AenarIT]

Now I just wish that they previewed also the page with custom chapter tactics, I'd have spent another good hour squinting my eyes on that as well :D

[Riddlesworth]

I've started looking into sources for further primaris bikes, with (if all goes well) 3 full sets possible.

With the biker chaplain and Swift and Deadly that would be fixed 20" movement and still charging...dang...

But also missing out on the shooting attacks, which are not insignificant

[MajorNese]

 

I've started looking into sources for further primaris bikes, with (if all goes well) 3 full sets possible.

With the biker chaplain and Swift and Deadly that would be fixed 20" movement and still charging...dang...

But also missing out on the shooting attacks, which are not insignificant

True. But the point is, with changes to overwatch and their impressive number of CC attacks, I'd rather tie up a unit or two than dump a few shots on them and probably fail the charge roll, leaving them quite exposed next round.

 

It always depend on the situation, but a charge across that distance is a nice option to have. I have enough bolter shots available by other means, but the mobility to reach far away units is comparably rare.

[Riddlesworth]

Yes thats understandable.

 

The thing that stops me with the biker chaplain is I'm never not going to run him with master of sancity and wise orator. A single litany every turn will cost you 1-2 CP a game in rerolls if you always want it on.

 

To too add swift and deadly on top, he has to be my warlord and usually the double litanies is enough of a buff for the units he's running with to be fine a d k can drop a double trait somewhere else (currently MoA and Ssift and Deadly buffing aggressors)

[Alcyon]

NEW SNEAK PEAK OF RG CHAPTER TACTICS FROM THE NEW CODEX

 

Raven Guard: 1) count as being in Light Cover if the attacker is more than 18" away and 2) INFANTRY only count as being in Dense Cover if the attacker is more than 12" away.

 

Here is my source:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/hxmozp/new_sm_codex_coming_in_october_2020_with_updated/

 

There's also a confirmation in the rulebook on how the current CT works, in case you missed an explanation for it like I did - basically the RG CT as per the current Supplement grants the benefit of Light Cover (as do all abilities that grant the "benefit of cover") which is +1 to the armour save, and then the other part of the CT is self explanatory - if you're on or in a piece of terrain, -1 to hit (source: Rare Rules, Core Book pg. 360).

 

Interesting that the new CT changes things the way it does. It seems like it might encourage us to want less terrain on the battlefield since we benefit from cover whether or not any is actually there, and it also promotes troops that can shoot from 18" away - notably that dis-incentivizes most Rapid Fire weapon variants and Aggressors if they don't have the Long-Range Marksman trait. It's also a buff to almost all Assault weapon variants since they get full shots at 24", which might tip the scales towards Auto Bolt Rifles for example even considering the Rapid Fire stratagem. Also suggests RG wants to run more long-range vehicles over short-range ones in some cases, so for new Gladiator tank for example we'll probably want to avoid the Valiant version. That said, 9th has a lot of holding objectives so it's less likely you'll have the option to keep enemies at a distance, so might not matter as much as it seems.

[lythari]

Infantry over 12" counting as in dense cover is pretty awesome since so many objectives are out in the open. I'm guessing they made the light cover part of the CT more difficult to get as they're worried about giving vehicles cover too easily.