Thoughts on Prepping for 9e

[Dracos]

Salt alert

Sounds like another of a thousand paper cuts GW has taken to the Raven Guard supplement.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Dracos

[defl0]

I actually think pure RG are better in 8th than 9th. 

[lythari]

NEW SNEAK PEAK OF RG CHAPTER TACTICS FROM THE NEW CODEX

 

Raven Guard: 1) count as being in Light Cover if the attacker is more than 18" away and 2) INFANTRY only count as being in Dense Cover if the attacker is more than 12" away.

 

Here is my source:

https://www.reddit.com/r/WarhammerCompetitive/comments/hxmozp/new_sm_codex_coming_in_october_2020_with_updated/

 

I think the second part of that is incorrect.  Squinting at the screenshot, it seems to read, "Each time a ranged attack is made against an INFANTRY unit with this tactic that is entirely on or within a terrain feature, if the attacker is more than 12" away, then the unit with this tactic is treated as having the benefit of dense cover against that attack".  Which is a downgrade as we're not -2 to hit when in dense cover, and attacks that ignore dense cover also ignore our chapter tactic.

[MajorNese]

The thing that stops me with the biker chaplain is I'm never not going to run him with master of sancity and wise orator. A single litany every turn will cost you 1-2 CP a game in rerolls if you always want it on

Reroll strat is way more limited in 9th - hit/wound/damage/save/psychic/advance/charge rolls (IIRC, might have missed one or two), but any roll not mentioned in the BRB is out. Even morale is out - pay 2CP for auto-pass or none at all. The list of possible rerolls is quite short, should be mandatory reading for 9th.

 

So there is no reroll available for anything codex specific like the litany roll.

I guess they want to make the internal mechanics of an army independent from general game mechanics - some specific reroll abilities were never worth it, some abilities incredibly reliable, simply due to the generic reroll strat. ATSKNF for example becomes more important when generic strat-based morale rerolls aren't a thing any more. Same for other codices' mechanics like the data tether from AdMech.

[Riddlesworth]

Ahhhhh, still had my 8th ed hat on.

 

Although the RR strat being changed means you can't RR a ljtany roll, that makes the MoS and Wose orator combo even more of lock

[AenarIT]

Yeah, I think that the classic Chaplain (now Chaplain on Bike?) with MoA + Wise Orator is still a must for most MoA strategies.
Whether you want to alpha strike with an Aggressor Squad or just reposition midfield with something else (10 Intercessors?), it's still insanely strong like all redeployment abilities.

It costs 2CP but they are well worth it in my opinion.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Note that before it was only vehicles that didn't get the -1 to hit, now it's only infantry. Those bikes lost a bit of value for being used in a raven guard list as a result.

[Sergeant_Angle]

So getting back into 40k for 9th ed I didn't get a codex as I expected a new one to be announced (which it now has been) Will I need any other books or supplements that have already been released. Like I heard something about psychic awakening? Not to sure what it is. could anyone help? 

[Firenze]

Note that before it was only vehicles that didn't get the -1 to hit, now it's only infantry. Those bikes lost a bit of value for being used in a raven guard list as a result.

I think both vehicles and infantry both get the -1 to hit, just the Infantry are the only ones able to get the +1 to saves.

 

I wont lie, I am interested in if they have custom chapter traits still. I would prefer to use that than the Raven Guard one like I did before.

[AenarIT]

Probably just the Raven Guard supplement, since it shouldn’t be redone just one year in.

The Psychic Awakening book relevant for marines is Faith and Fury, but GW said that future codices would include stuff from the PA books. It could mean that the new SM codex will get some (or all) the rules from Faith and Fury and then invalidate it. I wouldn’t get it if I were you, at least not until we know whether it’s going to be used or not from October onwards.

[SkimaskMohawk]

 

 

Note that before it was only vehicles that didn't get the -1 to hit, now it's only infantry. Those bikes lost a bit of value for being used in a raven guard list as a result.

I think both vehicles and infantry both get the -1 to hit, just the Infantry are the only ones able to get the +1 to saves.

 

I wont lie, I am interested in if they have custom chapter traits still. I would prefer to use that than the Raven Guard one like I did before.

Light cover is +1 save. Dense is -1 to be hit. It's pretty clear which get what

[Alcyon]

Yeah, it’s the other way around - Light Cover (+1 to saves) is much easier to get and vehicles still enjoy it unlike minus 1 to hit (Dense Cover). Makes sense since the latter is stronger than the former.

Edited July 26, 2020 by Alcyon

[Dracos]

It’s still trash comparatively given the new terrain rules give similar abilities away for free

 

edit: apology still feeling salt as we start 9e

Edited July 26, 2020 by Dracos

[Alcyon]

I mean they always have granted some benefits "for free", it's just that cover is now better comparatively. We will have the flexibility to be out of cover in order to get better sightlines, possibly benefitting even when atop an Exposed Position? I think also since objectives are less likely to be in cover in 9th that our objective holders get more resilient, though I would probably prefer the IH FNP since it doesn't disappear once enemies close with us. 

 

That said it's still a nerf. At least we aren't totally alone in being brushed with the nerf baton. And I still think MoA is one of the most powerful abilities available to Space Marines, and I don't think I'd pick another primogenitor - the other rules aren't quite compelling enough, and the fluff is a major driver for me too.

[SkimaskMohawk]

Objectives aren't allowed to be in terrain in 9th, so it helps there a lot. The raven guard CT isn't the defining part of the first founding package; the stratagems and warlord traits are. Yea it sucks it's getting nerfed, but the meat and potatoes of the supplement still works great.

[Firenze]

Yeah, it’s the other way around - Light Cover (+1 to saves) is much easier to get and vehicles still enjoy it unlike minus 1 to hit (Dense Cover). Makes sense since the latter is stronger than the former.

Ah yes sorry, still getting up to speed really on 9th

[Alcyon]

Been working on planning out my 50PL Crusade force; it seems like the perfect way to start and build up an army. It's an interesting Travelling Salesman sort of problem wanting to design a force that's good at 50PL and then has options for ideally more than one 25 PL army within it. I own about 100 PL of unassembled models but fully a quarter of that is like 5 HQs, it's only 30 PL of Troops. Here's my planned Order of Battle.

 

50 PL Patrol

 

HQ

Primaris Captain (Auto Bolt Rifle, Power Sword) - 5pl (-1 RP for Bellicos Bolt Rifle)

 

Elites

3x Bladeguard Veterans - 5pl

Invictor (Flamestorm) - 6pl

 

Troops

5x Infiltrators - 5pl

10x Intercessors - 10pl (-1 RP for Veteran Intercessors upgrade)

 

Fast Attack

3x Outriders - 6pl

 

Heavy

3x Eradicators - 5pl

5x Hellblasters - 8pl

 

The Captain will lead the Hellblasters and Eradicators, kind of as a semi-mobile castle screened by the Bladeguard; I plan to bring the Intercessors in from reserve and deploy the Infiltrators to a midfield objective supported by the Invictor. Then the Intercessors and Outriders can back them up further while the castle can crawl forward to support them. Kind of a refused flank thing I guess? It's really too bad they didn't give the Assault Plasma Incinerators a third shot to compensate for them only wounding T7 on 4s even when supercharged, especially since we know you won't get Dense Cover once the next codex drops unless you're 18" away.

 

I have a squad of Suppressors, Bolt Rifle Eliminators and the rest of the Indomitus box too. I'm thinking one 25 PL option would be this: 

 

25 PL Patrol

 

HQ

Primaris Captain (Bellicos Bolt Rifle, Power Sword) - 5pl

 

Troops

5x Infiltrators - 5pl

10x Veteran Intercessors - 10pl

 

Heavy

3x Eradicators - 5pl

 

Again, bit of a castle, Infiltrators blocking deep-strike too close, solid close combat ability and lots of firepower on tap. I've really been burned by Blood Angels with jump packs getting in my face super quick, so I'm playing pretty defensively. Another could be this: 

 

24 PL Patrol

 

HQ

Primaris Captain (Bellicos Bolt Rifle, Power Sword) - 5pl

 

Troops

5x Infiltrators - 5pl

 

Fast Attack

3x Outriders - 6pl

 

Heavy

5x Hellblasters - 8pl

 

I didn't realize it at first but the way detachments work now I have a lot less incentive to use my Intercessor box to make two 5-man squads just to fill out deployment options. As long as I'm working with PL there's no points difference between them and Infiltrators.

 

To make it 100 PL I'd add upgrade to a Battalion (2nd Co.) and add a 1st Company Patrol:

 

Battalion

 

HQ

Primaris Captain (Auto Bolt Rifle, Power Sword) - 5pl (-1 RP for Bellicos Bolt Rifle)

Phobos Lieutenant (Occulus Bolt Carbine) - 4pl (-1 RP for Ex Tenebris)

 

Elites

Invictor (Flamestorm) - 6pl

6x Aggressors - 10pl

 

Troops

5x Infiltrators (+ Helix Adept) - 5pl

5x Infiltrators - 5pl

5x Intercessors (Stalker Bolt Rifles) - 5pl

 

Fast Attack

3x Outriders - 6pl

3x Suppressors - 4pl

 

Heavy

3x Eradicators - 5pl

10x Hellblasters - 16pl

 

Patrol

 

HQ

Primaris Captain in Gravis Armour - 5pl (-1 RP for Chapter Master, -1 RP for Master of Ambush WL Trait)

 

Elites

5x Tartaros Terminators - 9pl (5x Chainfists, 1xHeavy Flamer)

3x Bladeguard Veterans - 5pl

 

Troops

10xVeteran Intercessors - 10pl

 

Ironically I'm ending up using less than half of Indomitus here, but by the time I'm anywhere near getting ready to paint up to 100pl we'll know whether Assault Intercessors can take jump packs or be Veterans, whether you can run six-man bike units, whether the kit for that and/or the Bike Chaplain will be out... That'll help me decide what to do too.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Alcyon

[MajorNese]

Just got the FW points for Astartes stuff...damn, the Land Speeder Tempest even dropped in points, from 87 down to 80 per model.

 

Guess I'll get another two of those. With not suffering penalties for moving any more, and the change to Blast weaponry, those things should be devastating against MEQ. Mobility is also good enough to hide behind obscuring terrain, then jump over and start shooting. And occasionally jumping over terrain to target characters or objective campers. Especially characters would be devastating - S6 is enough in round 2-3 to both hit and wound T4-5 characters on a 2+, AP-3 gets them down to whatever invul a good char has, and 2D will get things done.

[Espresso]

My  battle-plan for the 9th is to place as many infantry units on as many objectives as early in the game as possible and then keep my fingers crossed. 

[WAR]

Just got the FW points for Astartes stuff...damn, the Land Speeder Tempest even dropped in points, from 87 down to 80 per model.

 

Guess I'll get another two of those. With not suffering penalties for moving any more, and the change to Blast weaponry, those things should be devastating against MEQ. Mobility is also good enough to hide behind obscuring terrain, then jump over and start shooting. And occasionally jumping over terrain to target characters or objective campers. Especially characters would be devastating - S6 is enough in round 2-3 to both hit and wound T4-5 characters on a 2+, AP-3 gets them down to whatever invul a good char has, and 2D will get things done.

 

I know right my Typhoons went up in points but the tempest went down.....oh yeah

Edited July 27, 2020 by war009

[thewarriorhunter]

Xiphon went down as well.

[Riddlesworth]

man....

 

I was all set with how i was looking at 9th.

 

Then I built the Bladeguard. Gosh those models are so nice. But its ok, they're 3 per squad, so unless I chuck a bunch of character support at them, they wont displace my aggressor brick.

 

Then the multipart kit got revealed. i swear, no matter how competitive, if bladeguard go 3-6 in October, i am switching my MoA target...

[Frater Cornelius]

man....

 

I was all set with how i was looking at 9th.

 

Then I built the Bladeguard. Gosh those models are so nice. But its ok, they're 3 per squad, so unless I chuck a bunch of character support at them, they wont displace my aggressor brick.

 

Then the multipart kit got revealed. i swear, no matter how competitive, if bladeguard go 3-6 in October, i am switching my MoA target...

I like the idea of 3 Bladeguard as a one-off as a deep striking unit via stratagem. Run your Aggressors and all those heavy bricks, but you can consider Chaplain with outrider bike or JP or whatever that goes with Aggressors and provides the BGV with the +2" charge aura. For 105pts that seems like a cool unit as a one-off.

[MajorNese]

With yet another main codex and another huge release wave on the way, I stopped trying to make any plans for my astartes. Now the heavy bolt rifle dudes got teased, and another tank, and I'd bet there's still more.

 

For now, I build some stuff that I like, but any deep delve into points, rules and unit choices seems pretty irrelevant when it will be changed soon anyway.

Well, at least I can dig into my AdMech without wasting time...

[Riddlesworth]

 

man....

 

I was all set with how i was looking at 9th.

 

Then I built the Bladeguard. Gosh those models are so nice. But its ok, they're 3 per squad, so unless I chuck a bunch of character support at them, they wont displace my aggressor brick.

 

Then the multipart kit got revealed. i swear, no matter how competitive, if bladeguard go 3-6 in October, i am switching my MoA target...

I like the idea of 3 Bladeguard as a one-off as a deep striking unit via stratagem. Run your Aggressors and all those heavy bricks, but you can consider Chaplain with outrider bike or JP or whatever that goes with Aggressors and provides the BGV with the +2" charge aura. For 105pts that seems like a cool unit as a one-off.

 

 

biker chaplain is currently supporting a 5 man unit of bolter inceptors with catechism of fire, and using their bodies as an effective screen for when he needs to go punch a knight in the face with benediction of fury.

 

currently have the indomitus captain or librarian dropping with the aggressor brick. Swift and Deadly is an amazing buff for aggressor units. Would be the same for bladeguard tbf...