Thoughts on Prepping for 9e

[thewarriorhunter]

What heavy bolt rifle tease?

[MajorNese]

What heavy bolt rifle tease?

here

Captain and squad with those. The squad is probably the multipart Eradicator option, since it's gravis with no different design elements, just a big bolter.

[AenarIT]

Out of all the new stuff already seen, I doubt I'll get much more than the Primaris Chaplain on Bike (new MoA warlord 100%), the Primaris Techmarine for flavor and 3 multipart Bladeguard to round up the squad to 6 (or 9). 
Maybe if the Eradicators get a juicy alternative weapon option (lascannon? grav?) I could consider them as well. 

I think we can safely assume our supplement won't be changed that much (at least I hope), but the rules in the SM Codex will probably be changed quite a bit. 
I'm resigned to losing access to the insanely good Master Artisans chapter tactic (probably going to reroll a wound roll only like the new Salamanders tactic). Another thing I'm using very often that will probably change is the The Imperium's Sword warlord trait, now that rerolling charges is done by rerolling both dice only. 
I just hope our Strike from the Shadows and Master of Ambush won't be nerfed or taken away.

[thewarriorhunter]

 

What heavy bolt rifle tease?

here

Captain and squad with those. The squad is probably the multipart Eradicator option, since it's gravis with no different design elements, just a big bolter.

 

Ah, I saw that but didn't continue reading. I thought it was just going to be a one off HQ.

[Alcyon]

 

man....

 

I was all set with how i was looking at 9th.

 

Then I built the Bladeguard. Gosh those models are so nice. But its ok, they're 3 per squad, so unless I chuck a bunch of character support at them, they wont displace my aggressor brick.

 

Then the multipart kit got revealed. i swear, no matter how competitive, if bladeguard go 3-6 in October, i am switching my MoA target...

I like the idea of 3 Bladeguard as a one-off as a deep striking unit via stratagem. Run your Aggressors and all those heavy bricks, but you can consider Chaplain with outrider bike or JP or whatever that goes with Aggressors and provides the BGV with the +2" charge aura. For 105pts that seems like a cool unit as a one-off.

 

 

I do think MoA makes the Bladeguard a lot more viable by giving them a route to a turn 1 charge, though that won't cut it if you're stuck going second. Otherwise they're sort of a screening unit (waiting for them to come to you) or have to ride in an Impulsor, which are pricier now. If I hadn't bought Indomitus I don't think I'd be considering running them, I'd just have Aggressors instead since they can stand on an objective and play defense better with all their firepower, stay still to fire twice, and sick overwatch.

 

I do think being able to make the the Bladeguard six or five strong with an HQ really helps their viability, I doubt three guys even with 3w and 2+/4++ is as resilient as it might seem at first. It's also the difference between killing three Primaris and seven Primaris or a 5-man Terminator Squad in one round of combat without an HQ, so that's pretty huge. 

[Frater Cornelius]

I don't think BGV will ever be 3-6. I remember GW saying on a stream that max units of 3 is a way to balance Marines, which makes sense because abilities and stratagems on bigger units of Outriders and BGV would simply be broken. Hence why I think MoA is wasted on just 3 dudes and SftS would be a more viable alternative.

[Alcyon]

I'd agree except you can take units like Aggressors in squads of 6 and Terminators in squads of 10 still. Maybe we'll see that drop down in the new codex, I suppose that's a possibility.

[Frater Cornelius]

I'd agree except you can take units like Aggressors in squads of 6 and Terminators in squads of 10 still. Maybe we'll see that drop down in the new codex, I suppose that's a possibility.

Aggressors are probably the only heavy hitter Primaris that can up to six. Considering it was introduced early, maybe they didn't have that idea yet. Every unit that followed after stuck to 3 per unit. I really like the idea, because it keeps a lot of combos in check and gives us the CP vs extra detachment trade-off. I'll definitely plan my lists around the whole 3 per unit scheme. If they change it, RIP non-Marines I guess.

[Dracos]

Hardly.

 

You haven't seen how fast a full squad of Inceptors can be cut down by Shining Spears or Custode Jetbikes. There are plenty of answers to 5 or 6 model 3w 3+ units. Matter of fact 5 Aggressors versus 5 Blade Guard looks like a bad match up for the Blade Guard in my opinion.

Edited July 27, 2020 by Dracos

[Sergeant_Angle]

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/07/27/warhammer-40000-new-starter-sets-sighted/

 

Looks like we will be able to get Indomitus units in a smaller package. Bladeguard getting a multikit. Doesn't seem to any eradicators outside of the indomitus box though unless I have missed them in the images.

[Alcyon]

Yea, looks like mostly Assault Intercessors, Outriders and the Bladeguard Lt. - no wonder they were so happy to do Indomitus Made to Order if they planned to keep printing the same molds all along anyway.

 

Eradicators not being present makes sense if we're expecting a new multi-part Gravis kit to drop by October with more weapon options (Heavy Intercessors or whatever.)

[Sergeant_Angle]

Yea, looks like mostly Assault Intercessors, Outriders and the Bladeguard Lt. - no wonder they were so happy to do Indomitus Made to Order if they planned to keep printing the same molds all along anyway.

 

Eradicators not being present makes sense if we're expecting a new multi-part Gravis kit to drop by October with more weapon options (Heavy Intercessors or whatever.)

That's a fair point. There is precedent as the phobos infantry comes in one box with two unit options. 

[ShinyRhino]

I haven't had time to sit down and digest the new box and rules, but does it seem like units with alternate deployment methods can now come in turn one? Or did I miss a rule? It says they're not Strategic Reserves, so they'd not be bound by that turn table?

[Dracos]

Nope still Turn Two. It's in those detals you haven't hit yet. I'm sure we'll all have similar questions for a while. Mine was hoping Rule of 3 was out. Sure there are 3 data sheets for each new tank but not for Infantry. I don't see a thing wrong with 3 units of Sniper Eliminators ... and 3 units of Fusil Eliminators ;)

[Firenze]

So as a double check, has Lias Issodon be fully confirmed yet to have been moved to Legends? There doesnt seem to be any concrete information about it.

[MajorNese]

So as a double check, has Lias Issodon be fully confirmed yet to have been moved to Legends? There doesnt seem to be any concrete information about it.

I have the Munitorum Field Manual. All points of FW characters without a model are gone, so that's Legends from now on.

Most of the Badab characters didn't have a model to begin with, so that was just a question of when it would happen, not if.

[Firenze]

 

So as a double check, has Lias Issodon be fully confirmed yet to have been moved to Legends? There doesnt seem to be any concrete information about it.

I have the Munitorum Field Manual. All points of FW characters without a model are gone, so that's Legends from now on.

Most of the Badab characters didn't have a model to begin with, so that was just a question of when it would happen, not if.

 

Thought so. How are people going to be running a similar character in the mean time?

 

I currently have two plans in motion:

Regular Captain (Chapter Master strategem) with MC Boltgun, Relic Blade and Armour of Shadows for a more Close quarters themed Lias, with a bonus to not being hit.

Primaris Captain (Chapter Master strategem) with Ex Tenebris, Powersword for a more ranged sniper similar to how he played before.

 

Both would be decent enough options, especially with 9th Ed rewarding aggressive play. Both also would use Master of Ambush as the warlord trait of course. However my army is Badab War themed, so running a primaris feels odd.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Firenze

[MajorNese]

 

 

So as a double check, has Lias Issodon be fully confirmed yet to have been moved to Legends? There doesnt seem to be any concrete information about it.

I have the Munitorum Field Manual. All points of FW characters without a model are gone, so that's Legends from now on.

Most of the Badab characters didn't have a model to begin with, so that was just a question of when it would happen, not if.

 

Thought so. How are people going to be running a similar character in the mean time?

With our relics and WL traits (and two of those at the same time) we can create characters that are quite close to Issodon. Not the free deep strike, but most other stuff, or even better combos. Master of the Vanguard for example increases movement distance (for phobos) and synergizes well with Swift and Deadly and the Infiltrators strat.

It's not in any netlist cookbook, but works just as well.

 

And Ex Tenebris is slightly worse by stats compared to Malice, but since it's able to target characters, we usually get more mileage out of it. It can be given to both primaris captains and phobos captains/lieutenants, so there you got your building blocks.

[thewarriorhunter]

The thing I missed on my first pass with Ex Tenebris is you're also getting +1 to hit. I tend to run mine on an LT since he gains more (as previously discussed a while back here). So if you're in a good position you're hitting on 2's and if you need to advance to get into position you're still hitting on 3's which is nice. Allows the LT to reposition without penalty if needed.

[Dracos]

The positive to putting Ex Tenebris on a Captain (and u could just use the K-bolt instead) is the Reserves Denial and the camo-cloak. But that means having a plan with more complicated pieces compared the simply more efficient Lt.

 

I'm not sure what my competitive list is looking like right now for 9e. Waiting til October for the "final" changes this year means not to sold on anything specific right now.

[thewarriorhunter]

 

 

I'm not sure what my competitive list is looking like right now for 9e. Waiting til October for the "final" changes this year means not to sold on anything specific right now.

Pretty much where I'm at for any type of list right now. I think I want to finish my Shadowspear models (Infiltrators and Suppresors) before I crack into Indomitus. I'm not in a hurry to get any one thing done but I do want to be able to play games without using my Raven Guard. I think I may actually paint up my LSS next so I can practice airbrushing vehicles. It'll come in handy for both my Xiphon and the bikes I've got.

 

I'm also hoping that we see jump packs for assault intercessors so I'm going to push those off, or at the least just blue tack their backpacks on so I can do an easy swap.

[Alcyon]

Yeah, I feel the same about the Assault Intercessors, I really hope they get jump packs. It seems unlikely as long as they're Troops but I wouldn't be surprised if they got a second codex entry in Fast Attack.

I've been pushing to use some of the Indomitus models in my upcoming Crusade but I think only the Eradicators and Outriders are going in so far. I think Aggressors will still be in the slot I'd otherwise put Bladeguard in; without an Impulsor they can't MoA with all their support characters and I just don't think the unit is all that impactful in comparison. 

 

I've done my Infiltrators and Lt from the Vanguard/Shadowspear box. My Suppressors and Eliminators are like 90% done but they're going on the back burner since I don't think either of them are strong enough to make it into my 50PL/1k Order of Battle. The Infiltrators are definitely huge for their anti-DS bubble and the Lt is a great points saver if you're trying to cram other models into a small list, pretty hard for Primaris to shave those down otherwise.

[Riddlesworth]

I've been pushing to use some of the Indomitus models in my upcoming Crusade but I think only the Eradicators and Outriders are going in so far. I think Aggressors will still be in the slot I'd otherwise put Bladeguard in; without an Impulsor they can't MoA with all their support characters and I just don't think the unit is all that impactful in comparison. 

 

I thought this until I played a few games with the new missions. With objective placement pushing both sides to the mid board, i was finding (especially if i was going second) that MoA was being used to to reposition in my own deployment. Aggressors being able to advance and shoot with no penalty meant if if my opponent ventured onto an objective, i could tag them with aggressor shooting and potentially a charge (with swift and deadly). This was on a 6x4 board, so they could spread out in their deployment zone a bit more, but it has me questioning whether MoA was going to be as useful this edition, and also whether Bladeguard would be able to hang footslogging to the middle.

[Dracos]

This is what I want my 9e army to look like I think. At least until we see what Heavy Intercessors cost.

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Raven Guard) [105 PL, 1,995pts, 3CP] ++

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

Battle Size [3CP]: 1. Combat Patrol (0-50 Total PL / 0-500 Points)

Detachment CP

 

+ HQ +

Kayvaan Shrike [7 PL, 135pts]: Warlord

Primaris Lieutenant (Indomitus) [4 PL, 90pts]

 

+ Troops +

5 Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]

5 Assault Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 95pts]

5 Infiltrator Squad [5 PL, 120pts]

5 Infiltrator Squad [5 PL, 120pts]

5 Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle, Sergeant: Chainsword

5 Intercessor Squad [5 PL, 100pts]: Bolt rifle, Sergeant: Chainsword

 

+ Elites +

5 Flamestorm Aggressor Squad [10 PL, 200pts]

5 Flamestorm Aggressor Squad [10 PL, 200pts]

 

 

+ Fast Attack +

5 Plasma Inceptor Squad [17 PL, 250pts]

5 Plasma Inceptor Squad [17 PL, 250pts]

 

+ Heavy Support +

3 Eradicator Squad [5 PL, 120pts]

3 Eradicator Squad [5 PL, 120pts]

 

++ Total: [105 PL, 3CP, 1,995pts]

 

Infiltrators deploy in the middle

Assault Intercessors advance toward Infiltrators

Rifle Intercessors camp on Deployment Objectives firesupport or perform Actions.

Lt and unit of Aggressors MoA to reinforce a middle objective or grab one on their own.

 

Aggressors and Eradicators SftS

 

Shrine and Inceptors come down delete weakened units focusing on denying opponent VP.

[Jacques Corbin]

Agreed, waiting until October. I am excited about all the changes, but I also want more.

 

I do not want to leave home without at least 1 Thunderfire Cannon, but I want a Primaris indirect fire unit. Also, with the new blast rules, it is actually better to fire the blast weapons first, then fire the others, to inflict the most casualties. Traditionally, you fire the units who have the least options for targets, then after they all fire, that narrows it down for firing the units with the most targets to choose from, but that isn't the case anymore.

 

Also, troop selection is throwing me. I really have come to enjoy my Incursors, but with smaller table sizes, Infiltrators (and Phobos Cpt) just got a lot more valuable for their denial bubble. I also got a lot of use out of Stalker Intercessors, but what will heavy Intercessors bring to the game?

 

Heavy Support slots are what boggle me now. Like I said, I love bringing my TFCs to the table, but I also love Eliminators, and I want a Gladiator Lancer. Not 100% sold on Eradicators, but I want them in my collection. Still trying to balance my antitank choices.