Thoughts on Prepping for 9e

[Dracos]

Interesting Frater Cornelius. I am contemplating a similar yet different concept. Largely dependent on the Heavy Intercessor. I am looking at taking all T5 (usually that's Gravis) 3+ Primaris models. Aggressors, Inceptors, Eradicators first then Outriders, depending on the Heavy Intercessor statline. Either that or 2 Infiltrator, 2 Assault + 2 Bolt Rifle Intercessors. They go for the expensive stuff and I rack up VP or go for the ObSec and I reinforce them with the Gravis squads. 

[Alcyon]

Awesome, glad to hear you have a strategy that's working for you - sounds awesome. I definitely think weight of 2w models and obsec is strong this edition and there's less of a deathstar focus. 

 

I just posted my Crusade list/plan to the Army List forum but I thought I'd re-share it here to see if anyone had any thoughts re: 9th ed. Using an RG successor with Bolter Fusillades and Stealthy. This is 1500pts, the 2k one is waiting on the Outrider Chaplain.

• Phobos Captain 100pts w/ Ex Tenebris (-1 RP) - Concealed Positions slightly forward
• Judiciar 85pts w/ MoA (-1 RP) - leading the Veteran Intercessors onto a forward objective
• Invictor 165pts - supporting one forward Infiltrator Squad
• 10x Veteran Intercessors w/ PF 210pts (-1 RP)
• 5x Infiltrators 120pts
• 5x Infiltrators 120pts
• 3x Outriders 135pts
• 3x Suppressors 105pts
• 3x Eradicators 120pts
• 10x Hellblasters w/ Assault Incinerators 330pts - Infiltrators stratagem to join Phobos Captain

Edited August 12, 2020 by Alcyon

[Frater Cornelius]

<p>

 

Awesome, glad to hear you have a strategy that's working for you - sounds awesome. I definitely think weight of 2w models and obsec is strong this edition and there's less of a deathstar focus.

 

I just posted my Crusade list/plan to the Army List forum but I thought I'd re-share it here to see if anyone had any thoughts re: 9th ed. Using an RG successor with Bolter Fusillades and Stealthy. This is 1500pts, the 2k one is waiting on the Outrider Chaplain.

• Phobos Captain 100pts w/ Ex Tenebris (-1 RP) - Concealed Positions slightly forward
• Judiciar 85pts w/ MoA (-1 RP) - leading the Veteran Intercessors onto a forward objective
• Invictor 165pts - supporting one forward Infiltrator Squad
• 10x Veteran Intercessors w/ PF 210pts (-1 RP)
• 5x Infiltrators 120pts
• 5x Infiltrators 120pts
• 3x Outriders 135pts
• 3x Suppressors 105pts
• 3x Eradicators 120pts
• 10x Hellblasters w/ Assault Incinerators 330pts - Infiltrators stratagem to join Phobos Captain

I assume this is a Patrol detachment?

 

I really like the Judiciar Intercessor combo. If I can free 85pts, it is something I wanna try myself.

 

Despite what I keep saying, I actually dislike the bikes somewhat in this setup. I understand why they are there and it makes sense, but my gut tells me that a second Invictor may be a better choice in this 1500pts setup. You'll get the missing 30pts by turning the Infiltrators into Incursors. You could also make the Judiciar into a Primaris Chaplain to accompany the boys. That'll make a really cool setup.

You can add the bikes back in once the bike chaplain makes a debut, which makes it a more complete package.

 

Now, because this is a patrol detachment, if I understood correctly, then a third elite isn't possible. With that in mind, the list is 50 shades of fine, actually. Good spread, good speed. A bit short on anti-tank, but plenty of soft anti-tank, so it's not that bad. Still, I'd love to see a second Invictor in the future. Where there's one, there's two. You just haven't spotten him yet ;)

[Riddlesworth]

<p>

 

Using an RG successor with Bolter Fusillades and Stealthy. This is 1500pts, the 2k one is waiting on the Outrider Chaplain.

Yesssss, embrace the Holy bolter

[Alcyon]

 

I assume this is a Patrol detachment?

 

I really like the Judiciar Intercessor combo. If I can free 85pts, it is something I wanna try myself.

 

Despite what I keep saying, I actually dislike the bikes somewhat in this setup. I understand why they are there and it makes sense, but my gut tells me that a second Invictor may be a better choice in this 1500pts setup. You'll get the missing 30pts by turning the Infiltrators into Incursors. You could also make the Judiciar into a Primaris Chaplain to accompany the boys. That'll make a really cool setup.

You can add the bikes back in once the bike chaplain makes a debut, which makes it a more complete package.

 

Now, because this is a patrol detachment, if I understood correctly, then a third elite isn't possible. With that in mind, the list is 50 shades of fine, actually. Good spread, good speed. A bit short on anti-tank, but plenty of soft anti-tank, so it's not that bad. Still, I'd love to see a second Invictor in the future. Where there's one, there's two. You just haven't spotten him yet

 

Thanks for the input! It is a Patrol, yeah. I'm actually on board with cutting the bikes, I like adding them as a unit with the Chaplain and actually I had considered squeezing in a second Invictor. I've heard mixed reviews about them in 9th for the points, it's really my only vehicle so it'll soak up AT fire. Two might help and does better support the general plan. I do think the Intercessors need the Judiciar to survive a charge by a stronger unit, the Tempormortis is just so strong there and Chaplains have access to more options in terms of maneuverability than he does, so I think he really benefits from MoA. I'm pretty scared of the BA player in our group so I'm running the Phobos Captain and Infiltrator Squads specifically to zone him out. 

 

I'm going to experiment with a double Patrol earlier on to fit in a Chapter Master and some Grav Centurions, so maybe I can try a second Invictor there too.

[Frater Cornelius]

If it's a unit that you need temporomortis to survive, then the Intercessors probably won't bring the unit down to begin with. If they would kill it, then the opponent would the stupid to charge. The Chaplain can add a nice layer of damage as well but doing the +1 wound thing or Hate if you're on the charge. Temporomortis sounds cool, but it would've been better when we had the Initiative system. Right now, it is close to a gimmick, unless there is a lot of glass cannon melee, like Harlies, going around. If you face an army that prefers range, that guy won't be as useful outside of his chopping.

 

Not to discourage the Judiciar, just giving the other side of coin, in case you want that second Invictor.

[Alcyon]

On the contrary I think there are a lot of units where they have the killing power to take down a unit but not the resilience to receive a charge. The Tempormortis makes it so charging something like Aggressors is even more of a death sentence, but I think that's mostly overkill. Paying 85pts to buff an ObSec unit so that it can receive a charge and not be immediately wiped out without the ability to swing back and reduce incoming damage is pretty big, I think.

 

Intercessors are fairly tough, but if someone sends a dedicated combat unit against them with 2 dmg weapons, they'll die before they get to swing back. With the Judiciar however, not only does he get to attack with his 5 S7 AP3 D2 hits (plus MWs), it also means the Veteran Sergeant's 5 Power Fist attacks get in along with 16 regular hits from the other guys and possibly their Overwatch. That should kill about 3 Sanguinary Guard on average and give them a much better shot of surviving the turn and holding the objective.

 

This is still mostly speculation on my part but it seems like 9th is going to be full of situations where your ObSec troops are going to be seriously threatened by a bigger, stronger unit, and you only have so many of those of your own. Teleporting some Terminators in front of your Intercessors would be the ideal response but a Judiciar is less than half the points and provides a solid deterrent I think. We'll see how it plays - I'm excited to have a way to redeploy characters like this without having to run an Impulsor. 

[Jacques Corbin]

On the point of the Judicar, what do we all think of pairing him with a Librarian, and using Shadowstep to teleport him where he is needed most? I mean, it has the more than 9" from enemy units caveat, so he can't be dropped next to a unit already stuck in, but it'll be nice to make an opponent sweat over deciding which midfield objective to push for, when that Judicar can be dropped on to any one of them to help those troops receive a charge.

 

Also, is the Judicar a good candidate for the Armor of Shadows relic? Or is that just overkill?

[Dracos]

I don’t trust Librarians because ... dice. I’d rather use Infiltrate strat or Master of Ambush if that’s possible. Honestly I had t thought too much about him yet.

[thewarriorhunter]

I like having a Librarian for buffs/offense like Tenebrous Curse or Mind Raid, but I would not want to rely on a Libby for movement because that has a higher cast value and if it doesn't go off then your Judicar is out of position.

[duz_]

Well my crazy thoughts of running ASM as quick objective grabbers might not seem so silly now with +1W and 12" flamers :woot:

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/13/new-boxes-new-rules-new-codexes/

[thewarriorhunter]

Yeah, I'm wondering if the Heavy Bolter D2 will translate to Hurricane bolters. Because if they do I may just rip the lascannons off of the Land Raider I have and put those on it and shove it up the board. Might make me actually build out an entire terminator squad.

[Alcyon]

Assault Marines still won't have as many attacks as Primaris. I guess if people are good at zoning out their DZs then having jump packs and starting on the board would be better than trying to bring on Reivers via DS or actual Troops via Strategic Reserves. 

 

No way Hurricanes go to D2, they're just a collection of six Bolters. They'll go to 30" for sure but I think their statline is in lockstep with regular Bolters. I think the Redeemer is actually the best Land Raider now, 2x Heavy D6 S6 AP2 D2 flamers with 12" range, plus a twin assault cannon AND you can staple one of the new Heavy 2 Multi-meltas on it too. When I finish my crusade at 2000 points I may well end up trying to find one on eBay to carry my Centurions around.

[Frater Cornelius]

Okay, after colluding with equally insane people, a Mongolian White Scars player and the full glory of Battle Scribe, I think I have a benchmark of where my collection will expand.

 

Shrike

Phobos Captain/Lt. with Ex Tenenris

Primaris Chaplain on Bike

 

10 Intercessors - Fist

5 Intercessors

2x5 Incursors

 

2 Invictors with AC

 

2x3 Outriders

3 MM Invader ATVs

 

2x3 Eliminators

 

That's 1900pts, if I take the Lt. instead of Captain, which opens a few options. Maybe 5 extra Intercessors, maybe a Callidus for some Stranglehold shenanigans, or another 3 Eliminators plus a PF on the 5 Intercessors. Or, you know, buffer for point increases.

 

For some variation, I am planning to a build a Phobos Librarian and maybe 1-2 of the new Stormspeeder. If things looks decent, maybe a Gladiator to keep my RepEx company.

 

We've got floating/flying stuff, we've got stealth, we've got snipers, we only have Phobos and Tacticus.

 

And remember: no Gravis ;)

[Alcyon]

Cool looking list, I love the idea of the Invictors paired with the Incursors, and I think the ATVs'll add some much-needed anti-tank. I'm excited about the new Stormspeeders too, and I think the Firestrike Servo-turrets might even be good running three of them in one HS slot to protect your DZ from reserves. Keep in mind the incoming codex may require you to run two detachments in order to have Shrike and a Captain in the same list, unless named Chapter Masters get an exemption.

 

I am also tempted to get some flamestorm Aggressors though, with a Terminator Master of Sanctity with MoA onto an objective, chanting Catechism of Fire and Litany of Hate... I dare anyone to charge them. Now I just need a Phobos Apothecary with Concealed Positions, Healer's Aegis and Father of the Future to make them rock-solid against shooting attacks too.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

Well my crazy thoughts of running ASM as quick objective grabbers might not seem so silly now with +1W and 12" flamers

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/13/new-boxes-new-rules-new-codexes/

I'm loving that for my Heresy stuff. 2W tactical marines and dark furies is gonna be fun. I think Devastators are going to be the standout though, especially for cheap back line objective holders. Granted they don't have obsec, but with HB getting buffed to D2 that's going to be a huge threat at 36 inches.

[Dracos]

Alcyon, you could always Infiltrate or MoA your Apothecary ... I'd rather have Phobos, but one does with one has ;)

[duz_]

I think Devastators are going to be the standout though, especially for cheap back line objective holders.

I always ran some Lascannon devs last edition early on I built all my HBs and did run one Dev squad of them. With the 2W might be worth trying it again.

Although all the pts increases are making decisions even harder

[thewarriorhunter]

I find myself happy this change is happening but frustrated at the same time. My dev squad is painted as RG so they won't match my SS :( I really don't want to repaint and I also don't want to buy a new box of oldmarines.

[Alcyon]

Alcyon, you could always Infiltrate or MoA your Apothecary ... I'd rather have Phobos, but one does with one has

 

Ah but you can only MoA one guy at a time. I think the offensive buffs from the Chaplain are probably more important. I'll probably experiment with both though. I'm thinking of painting my Chaplains in bone armour and my Apothecaries in dark red... should be cool.

 

Re: oldmarines - I just can't get into the proportions or sculpts now that I've got Primaris. I've collected and sold two small firstborn armies in my past flirtations with 40k and I feel done with them now. I was still imagining buying a cheap collection off someone and painting them up as Sons of Medusa with lots of vehicles, but outside of Terminators and Centurions I just can't see myself fielding both types of marines at once. Jump packs are definitely a powerful niche for firstborn but besides that I think most battlefield roles have a decent replacement in the Primaris line.

[Dracos]

Inspired by Duz

[Jacques Corbin]

So, the extra wound on firstborn marines, wow. For those of us with an existing collection of firstborn, it kind of makes us question investing more in Primaris now. Like, I do want the Phobos units, because more durable than scouts, and the Gravis marines are cool at T5, but now I wonder about the regular Primaris.

 

Do I need Hellblasters, or even Eradicators if Lascannon Devastators are 2W each now?

 

Why bring Intercessors if Tactical Marines are 2W?

[Dracos]

I'm having a personal crisis from this whole 9e world turning twisting my Primaris Raven Guard back into 3e vanilla marine nightmares of inability to compete with the Big Four and Eldar.

 

So just sayin'

 

 

Go Terminator or go home ;)

[Frater Cornelius]

So, the extra wound on firstborn marines, wow. For those of us with an existing collection of firstborn, it kind of makes us question investing more in Primaris now. Like, I do want the Phobos units, because more durable than scouts, and the Gravis marines are cool at T5, but now I wonder about the regular Primaris.

 

Do I need Hellblasters, or even Eradicators if Lascannon Devastators are 2W each now?

 

Why bring Intercessors if Tactical Marines are 2W?

Intercessors have better Bolters. By a good margin, mind you. If 3+ saves plus potential cover becomes the norm, the regular Bolter is naff. Bolt Rifles and Stalkers will outperform them. If hordes become a thing, Autobolt Rifle is glorious. Let's also not forget that Intercessors have superior stratagem support, i.e. Veterans and the three Bolter Strats. Finally, 1 more A makes a decent amount of difference, especially on the sarge. 10 Intercessors with a TH are probably still one of the most flexible unit in the game, and I think that beats having a Special Weapon.

 

The big thing speaking against LC devs is the price. Beyond that, they are a decent pick for sure. However, Hellblasters are only soft anti tank and rather fill the anti elite role, so probably not competing with Devs other than for the slot.

 

I think Devs will see a resurgence for sure and Scouts will probably remain popular in min/max lists. Veterans and Termies are probably also back on the menu. If anything, the gap closed, but if you ask me, the only real drawback for going full Primaris is not having access to mobile melee shock troops, i.e. VV and TDA.

 

Another thing to consider is that Firstborn units can easily get more expensive than Primaris if you stuff 'em full of gear. 2D weapons are going to be fairly popular, to a point where a lot of SM infantry will have a short lifespan.

 

And finally, Primaris models just look better Oo

[tentagil]

I’ve jumped into 9^th edition with a Crusade campaign in which I am also learning how to play Raven Guard after playing the ork hoards for years. Its already been a major learning experience as losing a unit hurts a hell of a lot more when you don’t have a ton of boyz ready to move up.

I’m starting from a base of the marine half of the Shadow Spear box, so lots of Phobos. And then I’ve picked up a few additional kits to start helping round things out. Current Order of battle at 50 PL is:
 

Phobos Captain w/ Ex Tenebris & the Shoot and Fade

Phobos Librarian

Phobos LT with Silentus Pistol

2 5xInfiltrator Squads w/ Comms Array

2 3xEliminator Squads w/ Bolst Sniper Rifle

1 3xSuppressor Squad

1 3xInceptor Squad w/ Plasma Exterminators

1 3xAggressor Squad w/ Boltstorm Gauntlets

 

I’ve got kits for the following that I need to assemble and paint up:

Incusor/infiltrator Squad (thinking doing 2 5x Incursors with these guys)

Invictor Warsuit

Reiver Squad (see a lot of mixed things with these guys, but I bought the box before hearing about the Assault Intercessors and felt they might pair well with the LT)

 

So far the Captain has been my MVP, his aura gives a good accuracy buff, and with Ex Tenebris he along with my Eliminators have been character killers. Infiltrators have been great for sitting objectives early but lack luster in actually damage output. The aggressors and Inceptors I just finished painting and haven’t played with yet, but both should give me some soft anti-tank and help deal with infantry.

 

I’ve decided to stick to Primaris for this force because I sort of hate the look of old marines next to the new guys. The size and proportions just don’t look good together. Trying to decide what other kits to pick up in the future to better round the force out. I know I need more anti-armor. So looking at Hellbalsters or the Eradicators once we see them as their own box.

Sort of looking for thoughts on where to go as I build up more through this crusade, and for games outside of crusade. And of course realizing that with all the leaks about changes to weapon profiles mean all advice could be mute come October.