Thoughts on Prepping for 9e

[Dracos]

Get an a Chaplain. Upgrade to a Master of Sanctity. Warlord Traits Master of Ambush and Wise Orator. Ambush 5 Aggressors first turn. +1 to hit + 1 to wound litanies. Inceptors (5) maneuver into close support position. Second turn use same litanies on the Inceptors and slap 11 wounds on almost anything in the game. Even a Knight is going to be down 4 or 5. Do it with Plasma and it’s even better but I feel Shrike makes a better babysitter in that case.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

So I'm trying to come up with a decent list, but I really want to use units that I like and think are cool. So here's my list:

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Raven Guard) [81 PL, 9CP, 1,939pts] ++

+ Configuration +

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

Detachment CP

+ HQ +

Kayvaan Shrike: Warlord

Librarian in Phobos Armour: 1) Shrouding, 2) Soul Sight, 5) Tenebrous Curse, Camo cloak, Neural Shroud, Stratagem: Chief Librarian

+ Troops +

Incursor Squad: Haywire Mine, Incursor Sergeant
. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired Combat Blades, 4x Smoke Grenades

Incursor Squad: Haywire Mine, Incursor Sergeant
. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired Combat Blades, 4x Smoke Grenades

Infiltrator Squad: Infiltrator Sergeant
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

Infiltrator Squad: Infiltrator Sergeant
. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

Intercessor Squad : Auto Bolt Rifle, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Veteran Intercessors
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Thunder hammer

Intercessor Squad: Auto Bolt Rifle, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Veteran Intercessors
. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades
. Intercessor Sergeant: Thunder hammer

+ Elites +

Invictor Tactical Warsuit: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy bolter, Incendium cannon, 2x Ironhail Heavy Stubber

Invictor Tactical Warsuit: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy bolter, Incendium cannon, 2x Ironhail Heavy Stubber

Vanguard Veteran Squad
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
. Space Marine Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer
. Veteran Sergeant: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

+ Heavy Support +

Eradicator Squad: Eradicator Sgt
. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Melta rifle

+ Flyer +

Stormtalon Gunship: Twin assault cannon, Two Lascannons

Stormtalon Gunship: Twin assault cannon, Two Lascannons

++ Total: [81 PL, 9CP, 1,939pts] ++

Created with BattleScribe

 

I'm torn between Ironhail Autocannons or Incendium cannons on the Invictors, because I like their native infiltrate rules, which let them get in position faster to support my infiltrators and incursors. The biggest problem I seem to have is that I'm expecting deep strikes in my back line, but I really don't have a dedicated backline support unit. My lascannon stormtalons are supposed to be my primary anti-vehicle unit, and maybe eradicators are redundant?

 

I need some help. I really like my stormtalons and my invictors, and I just need some help figuring out how to use them effectively together with the rest of my army.

[Alcyon]

I wonder if it's even really necessary to defend your backline that badly. Usually you might have 1 objective there at most and the rest are in the midfield. You could probably just move everything up to support the Concealed Positions units and be prepared to weather a crossfire/assaults from both sides. Just abandon that DZ objective and keep it moving. Something I've been considering myself given how tough/expensive it is to zone out your DZ with units that can still meaningfully shoot things.

[Riddlesworth]

I wonder if it's even really necessary to defend your backline that badly. Usually you might have 1 objective there at most and the rest are in the midfield. You could probably just move everything up to support the Concealed Positions units and be prepared to weather a crossfire/assaults from both sides. Just abandon that DZ objective and keep it moving. Something I've been considering myself given how tough/expensive it is to zone out your DZ with units that can still meaningfully shoot things.

Stopping linebreaker and/or deploy scramblers is pretty big

[jpwyrm]

So I'm trying to come up with a decent list, but I really want to use units that I like and think are cool. So here's my list:

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Raven Guard) [81 PL, 9CP, 1,939pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

Detachment CP

 

+ HQ +

 

Kayvaan Shrike: Warlord

 

Librarian in Phobos Armour: 1) Shrouding, 2) Soul Sight, 5) Tenebrous Curse, Camo cloak, Neural Shroud, Stratagem: Chief Librarian

 

+ Troops +

 

Incursor Squad: Haywire Mine, Incursor Sergeant

. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired Combat Blades, 4x Smoke Grenades

 

Incursor Squad: Haywire Mine, Incursor Sergeant

. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired Combat Blades, 4x Smoke Grenades

 

Infiltrator Squad: Infiltrator Sergeant

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

 

Infiltrator Squad: Infiltrator Sergeant

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

 

Intercessor Squad : Auto Bolt Rifle, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Veteran Intercessors

. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

. Intercessor Sergeant: Thunder hammer

 

Intercessor Squad: Auto Bolt Rifle, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Veteran Intercessors

. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

. Intercessor Sergeant: Thunder hammer

 

+ Elites +

 

Invictor Tactical Warsuit: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy bolter, Incendium cannon, 2x Ironhail Heavy Stubber

 

Invictor Tactical Warsuit: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy bolter, Incendium cannon, 2x Ironhail Heavy Stubber

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad

. Space Marine Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Space Marine Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Space Marine Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Space Marine Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Veteran Sergeant: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Eradicator Squad: Eradicator Sgt

. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Melta rifle

 

+ Flyer +

 

Stormtalon Gunship: Twin assault cannon, Two Lascannons

 

Stormtalon Gunship: Twin assault cannon, Two Lascannons

 

++ Total: [81 PL, 9CP, 1,939pts] ++

 

Created with BattleScribe

 

I'm torn between Ironhail Autocannons or Incendium cannons on the Invictors, because I like their native infiltrate rules, which let them get in position faster to support my infiltrators and incursors. The biggest problem I seem to have is that I'm expecting deep strikes in my back line, but I really don't have a dedicated backline support unit. My lascannon stormtalons are supposed to be my primary anti-vehicle unit, and maybe eradicators are redundant?

 

I need some help. I really like my stormtalons and my invictors, and I just need some help figuring out how to use them effectively together with the rest of my army.

 

I like this list, it's very thematic for Raven Guard and stays away from other cookie cutter list that spams the same boring units over and over - looking at you Centurions!

 

Personnally, I would make some small changes for personnal preference and also to help you with your backfield protection problem. First, I would get rid of one Infiltrator Squads. The Scrambler are nice, but I think you have more than enough troop choices as it is (I've been doing well with 4 in my last games so far). With the saved points and remaining 61 pts you have left, I would invest in two Eliminator squads for additionnal Character hunting capabilities and backfield protection duties. My experience with those units is that their output (killing and staying power) is way over their price tag in points.

 

Eradicators are gold, you should definitely keep them. I'm sure Talons are a great addition also, but I have had some bad luck with them so cannot give real feedback on them. I mostly play Tau and they just delete airplanes in Turn 1, so going second is hard for Flyer Support...

[Alcyon]

So maybe it's nice to have the option but not have it be part of your battleplan necessarily. Maybe plan out a couple deployments with a list where you can leave some units back and others where you want to move everything to the centre. That's probably what I'd try to do if prepping for a tournament with preselected missions.

[Dracos]

So I'm trying to come up with a decent list, but I really want to use units that I like and think are cool. So here's my list:

 

++ Battalion Detachment 0CP (Imperium - Adeptus Astartes - Raven Guard) [81 PL, 9CP, 1,939pts] ++

 

+ Configuration +

 

**Chapter Selection**: Raven Guard

 

Battle Size [12CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)

 

Detachment CP

 

+ HQ +

 

Kayvaan Shrike: Warlord

 

Librarian in Phobos Armour: 1) Shrouding, 2) Soul Sight, 5) Tenebrous Curse, Camo cloak, Neural Shroud, Stratagem: Chief Librarian

 

+ Troops +

 

Incursor Squad: Haywire Mine, Incursor Sergeant

. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired Combat Blades, 4x Smoke Grenades

 

Incursor Squad: Haywire Mine, Incursor Sergeant

. 4x Incursor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Occulus bolt carbine, 4x Paired Combat Blades, 4x Smoke Grenades

 

Infiltrator Squad: Infiltrator Sergeant

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

 

Infiltrator Squad: Infiltrator Sergeant

. 4x Infiltrator: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades, 4x Marksman bolt carbine

 

Intercessor Squad : Auto Bolt Rifle, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Veteran Intercessors

. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

. Intercessor Sergeant: Thunder hammer

 

Intercessor Squad: Auto Bolt Rifle, Auxiliary Grenade Launcher, Veteran Intercessors

. 4x Intercessor: 4x Bolt pistol, 4x Frag & Krak grenades

. Intercessor Sergeant: Thunder hammer

 

+ Elites +

 

Invictor Tactical Warsuit: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy bolter, Incendium cannon, 2x Ironhail Heavy Stubber

 

Invictor Tactical Warsuit: Fragstorm Grenade Launcher, Heavy bolter, Incendium cannon, 2x Ironhail Heavy Stubber

 

Vanguard Veteran Squad

. Space Marine Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Space Marine Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Space Marine Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Space Marine Veteran: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

. Veteran Sergeant: Storm shield, Thunder hammer

 

+ Heavy Support +

 

Eradicator Squad: Eradicator Sgt

. 2x Eradicator: 2x Bolt pistol, 2x Melta rifle

 

+ Flyer +

 

Stormtalon Gunship: Twin assault cannon, Two Lascannons

 

Stormtalon Gunship: Twin assault cannon, Two Lascannons

 

++ Total: [81 PL, 9CP, 1,939pts] ++

 

 

Ulrik, that is a fine combination of fun and still have legs to be competitive. I honestly feel you need to be able to block out your opponents ability to pull Raven Guard like shenanigans. I have a simple if slightly painful suggestion to keep this build intact.

 

Use the Intercessors (Bolt Rifles, though Stalkers are good also) and drop the Thunder Hammers. I like them in the same squads you have but your good in the midfield with six Phobos units. Use the points to add an Eliminator unit in your backfield and they should be capable of blocking it from your opponent reserves. Eliminators can be in the open if needed if you can get Intercessors in cover. If not they just have to hold til Turn Four.

 

I have found in couple games I've played so far I am using my Eliminators as much for point denial as I am character killing. They aren't cheap as they use to be but still the cheapest Primaris unit you can get some work out of.

[Ulrik_Ironfist]

I like this list, it's very thematic for Raven Guard and stays away from other cookie cutter list that spams the same boring units over and over - looking at you Centurions!

 

Personnally, I would make some small changes for personnal preference and also to help you with your backfield protection problem. First, I would get rid of one Infiltrator Squads. The Scrambler are nice, but I think you have more than enough troop choices as it is (I've been doing well with 4 in my last games so far). With the saved points and remaining 61 pts you have left, I would invest in two Eliminator squads for additionnal Character hunting capabilities and backfield protection duties. My experience with those units is that their output (killing and staying power) is way over their price tag in points.

 

Eradicators are gold, you should definitely keep them. I'm sure Talons are a great addition also, but I have had some bad luck with them so cannot give real feedback on them. I mostly play Tau and they just delete airplanes in Turn 1, so going second is hard for Flyer Support...

 

 

I followed your advice and picked up those two Eliminator Squads. I think that you're right, they'll do wonders for securing my back line. The way I see it, if my opponent ignores the Storm Talons, thy could do some damage, if he focuses them down, he's not shooting at the rest of my army.

 

 

Ulrik, that is a fine combination of fun and still have legs to be competitive. I honestly feel you need to be able to block out your opponents ability to pull Raven Guard like shenanigans. I have a simple if slightly painful suggestion to keep this build intact.

 

Use the Intercessors (Bolt Rifles, though Stalkers are good also) and drop the Thunder Hammers. I like them in the same squads you have but your good in the midfield with six Phobos units. Use the points to add an Eliminator unit in your backfield and they should be capable of blocking it from your opponent reserves. Eliminators can be in the open if needed if you can get Intercessors in cover. If not they just have to hold til Turn Four.

 

I have found in couple games I've played so far I am using my Eliminators as much for point denial as I am character killing. They aren't cheap as they use to be but still the cheapest Primaris unit you can get some work out of.

 

I went with the suggestion of dropping an infiltrator squad and adding in two squads of eliminators. Now, hopefully that buys me some decent backfield defense. I could easily go back to the auto bolt rifle and TH intercessor squads and be fine, but 5 phobos units are going to be securing the mid field, and I don't know if it's really all that necessary to have yet more midfield support. Though it certainly can't hurt.

 

[Jacques Corbin]

Think I will bump this to get thoughts on Heavy Intercessors and the new Storm Speeder variants.

 

Imagine those Heavy Intercessors sitting in your deployment zone, camping an objective with either an Apothecary or an Ancient. I am sorely tempted.

[thewarriorhunter]

I'm getting that speeder. That decision was made before I saw rules, and I only half read those. It's such a great looking model.

[duz_]

I'm getting that speeder. That decision was made before I saw rules, and I only half read those. It's such a great looking model.

+1

 

It will follow my Land Speeder into battle :lol:

[Jacques Corbin]

Well, as much chatter as there was about the Gladiator Lancer, I am eager to see how that compares to the Hammerstrike Stormspeeder.

 

I was hoping we would get a transport variant of the Storm Speeder. I mean, I own 4 Land Speeders Storm, so yeah, I would buy 4 of those. I just want a heavy weapon, a launcher that launches Reiver Grenades, maybe a 12 inch zone out, and a disembark after move and charge ability.

 

But enough wishlisting. What is the consensus? Sniper tank or tank-killer speeder?

[Dracos]

I’m playing Knights in a tournament this weekend (Don’t ask) I’m not seeing backfields threatened much. It’s the midfield you need to be durable and hit like a ton.

 

Note to fellow Ravenspire Brothers. Don’t Drop Pod T1 with Grav-estators just because a Knight player left you the room to do so ... “It’s a trap.”

[Alcyon]

I've given it some thought and I'm still a bit anti-vehicle for RG, especially with the impending new Chapter Tactic. Just doesn't seem to me like most of the platforms really add enough toughness to be worth it, and anything with a 18" range is going to lose the Light Cover benefit of the impending CT. I'd rather have my guns on an infantry unit that gets -1 to hit against them right up until they move and potentially charge. If I was going to run a vehicle it'd be a Stormtalon, then it'd get -1 to hit from Supersonic, a 2+ save from the CT and be able to get in LOS with its Heavy guns during Devastator doctrine. 

 

With that logic too it's a shame that Eradicators are so good as to be almost mandatory even though they lose that benefit if they close to half range. Thematic units for RG really seem to be Eliminators and to use Las-talons as anti-tank, but I think they suffer from not getting LOS with all the terrain in 9th.

 

When I think about it further, a Repulsor has pretty much the same guns as a Stormtalon, and instead of T6 with 10w you get T8 16w, with 10 models transport capacity. Sort of like a Stormtalon stapled to two Impulsors. I might give one of those a shot just to try it on TTS.

[Jacques Corbin]

So what are we thinking for Primaris troops in 9th?

 

If I want a unit to grab a midfield objective and camp on it, Infiltrators all the way.

 

Incursors have been my mop up unit, shooting after Inceptors, Aggressors, and Thunderfire Cannons, to dig out with precision what volume of shots left behind.

 

Heavy Intercessors can hold the backfield no joke. :cuss hard to shift, and can reach out to a large portion of the board all game.

 

Assault Intercessors I really want to love. I see them as being a counter charge unit most reliably. Hunker them in cover within charge distance of a unit of Infiltrators. Try to charge the Infiltrators, do it. You can't drop in behind them, because the 9" from the Assault Intercessors will overlap with the 12" from the Infiltrators when they are only about 14" apart.

 

What about standard Intercessors?

[Alcyon]

Yeah, I think Infiltrators are still largely the pick for turn 1 objective holding troops, though lately I've been deploying them behind obscuring cover in the midboard with the option to advance onto an objective rather than starting on it with LoS. They're a lot more survivable that way compared to otherwise even with Smoke Grenades. If you're playing someone else with Concealed Positions it gets dicier for sure, then it's all about being cagey in deployment.

 

Incursors I think are the pick for the strategy of trying to hem your opponent into their DZ on turn 1. Hard to do if you don't get first turn because your boys are just hung out to dry. Works great for White Scars since again you can deploy out of LoS and then still advance and charge; our boys just have to run up and try to screen with their bodies rather than making it into combat, and then it doesn't matter so much whether they're Incursors or not other than the fact that they're cheap. Scouts might even be a better option though they're becoming Elites now. I do think Incursors take a bit of a hit with their blades going to -1 AP instead of exploding 6s.

 

Heavy Intercessors on a backline objective for sure, now that Eliminators lost no-LoS shooting I think these guys are a lot better since they don't need to be in cover to get their full defensive capability, and their guns are better since they both need LoS now. Unfortunately that being the case I think Surgical Strikes is a lot worse now, especially since we know we didn't get a new version of Target Sighted that works with these guys. RG CT definitely took a hit and we'll have to see if the new supplement bails us out.

 

I think you're right, Assault Intercessors are better as a countercharge unit - I don't think they're good enough to be worth buying a transport for or supporting with a Chaplain to make a charge out of deep strike. That said, even as Veterans the best they'll do on average (including pistol shots) is kill 5 Primaris on the charge, and the Sergeant getting a Power Fist (since a Thunder Hammer is overkill) only improves to 5.66 - and as Veterans they lose ObSec. They obviously kill a ton of GEQ (22.7!) but I think they're mostly a unit for White Scars (advance and charge) or more likely BA and their successors since they can get buffs to wound and extra damage per hit without spending points/CP. They just don't do enough now that marines are 2w. 

 

That said, regular Intercessors are even less killy; even with Auto Bolt Rifles the best 10 can do is 3.38 Primaris after 30 bolter shots and 31 CC attacks. I think that speaks to the fact that these units aren't intended to be major damage dealers and are better off as MSU, performing actions and holding things with ObSec. The fact that they can shoot and absorb a charge is almost incidental, they'll tip over the last few wounds after a stronger supporting unit does the bulk of the work. 

 

TL;DR?

• run 5-man MSU for morale (ATSKNF got nerfed!), to keep points down and to perform Raise the Banners High etc.
• Auto Bolt Rifles are almost strictly better on the midfield regular Intercessor squads if you expect them to be on the move
• Assault Intercessors probably only a good option if you have free/armywide CT or doctrines to improve their abilities
• 1-2 Heavy Intercessor squads can anchor the backline for a reasonable points cost and add solid firepower.

[Dracos]

I think out Super Doctrine combined with Adaptive Strategy and a unit of Aggressors (who are going to be under-estimated) are going to delete monster characters. I think its a good strat with a max unit of Assault Intercessors also.

[Jacques Corbin]

My other concern is antitank firepower. If I am going all Primaris, should I go for a Gladiator, or a Storm Speeder?

 

I mean, I like Eradicators, but can they put the hurt on 3 Riptides with drones? What cleans out all the scariest tanks in a Guard parking lot?

 

I mean, I do not want all my eggs in one basket. Gotta spread the threat around, lest it be removed too quickly.

[Dracos]

My anti-tank is going to be set at 2 units of 5 Eradicators. I need the 10th :( it’s the kind of thing only Raven Guard can really maximize imo. It’s also a good reason to be using Infiltrators :) I plan on using Aggressors and the Adaptive Strategy stratagem as “back-up”.

[Alcyon]

That’s the thing - Eradicators put out more damage for the points than the Speeder or the Gladiator. No unit is as efficient at anti-tank especially with the Multi-Melta now, and you can take multiple squads of up to 6 to spread out your eggs.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

My other concern is antitank firepower. If I am going all Primaris, should I go for a Gladiator, or a Storm Speeder?

 

I mean, I like Eradicators, but can they put the hurt on 3 Riptides with drones? What cleans out all the scariest tanks in a Guard parking lot?

 

I mean, I do not want all my eggs in one basket. Gotta spread the threat around, lest it be removed too quickly.

Guard parking lots are the least threatening vehicles imo.  They are statues for the most part that dont score and most of the time they are characters so you dont even really need dedicated anti tank weapons to hurt them.  Lascannon devs seem like a good option now overall.  

 

Tau riptides... who cares really?  Tau are bottom feeders atm in the meta.  Just grab the primary... what are they gonna do about it?     

That’s the thing - Eradicators put out more damage for the points than the Speeder or the Gladiator. No unit is as efficient at anti-tank especially with the Multi-Melta now, and you can take multiple squads of up to 6 to spread out your eggs.

Take 5 man units.  You can use transhuman on them for 1 cp and not be vulnerable to blast.  

[Alcyon]

My plan is to run them as six with two Multi-meltas and combat squad them if you can, but yeah otherwise running 5 with 1 Multi is a great option.

[Jacques Corbin]

5 Eradicators is a great idea!

 

Anyone else thinking that a Judicar with Armor of Shadows is just mean in a small point game?

[superwill]

So the FAQ just deleted Shrike’s grav-chute ability...

 

Am I missing something, or did he just lose deepstrike for some reason??

[Dracos]

I’ve seen that too and for the moment I’m assuming there is a set of Keyword changes taking place and it’s going to be considered a simple Jump Pack Keyword overhaul.