relationship to other chapters

[Medjugorje]

Hello brothers,

 

I think I read lots of novels and another sources but I am sure I never being able to learn each single content about our beloved brotherhood chapter. My new awaken interest is about the relationship to other chapters. 

 

I start with the Blood Angels.

 

I know from different sources that they are have a very close relationship to us. Back in the days of the Great crusade the Blood Angels and Imperial Fists used to have a very tight bound. Especially after the siege of terra where both legions fought together side by side (while the White Scars done their own thing^^). Often there are changes after long time periods but not for this two chapters. In current timeline there are a few examples were they still fought together and have the same special enemies.

The Verdeworlds Campaign the Black Templars fought beside the Blood Angels and the Scytes of the Emperor for a longer time. The Armageddon Conflict where Dante was leading the forces in the secound war and then send a full company where the battleships served under Helbrecht. 

Not to mention that Sanguinius and Sigismund were slain by the same weapon.

 

The Ultramarines are more difficult.

 

I think the relationship is much closer then we think but not special like to our fellow legion brothers the Imperial Fists for example. In "Ghost of Mars" the Chaplain speak in high regards of the noble name of Roboute ( a rouge trader called roboute). And as we know we fought on the side of Gullyman after his rebirth. 

A lot of people would argue that the Black Templars dont like them because of the rejection of the Codex Astartes. but I think that the Black Templars just ignores it like the Space Wolves ignored the Council of Nicea because of their belief in absolute loyalty. Both chapters have the arrogance to stay beyond such things (this is why we love them^^)

 

 

lets discuss about that and finding more informations about relationship with another chapters

Edited June 9, 2020 by Medjugorje

[Dark Bjoern]

Specially Gullyman would be the last to have a problem with the BT because they don´t follow his Codex Astartes. The Codex Astartes was never ment to be a rulebook every Marine has to follow. He wrote it with the intention to collect all tactics that has proven useful. There was a short story in one of the HH collections about the Codex. One of his Captains tested the codex in different training scenarios. He fought with great success untill the final battle. The invasion of Magcragge by Horus. The Captain lost the battle and blamed himself for misinterpretation of the codex. Gullyman took him aside and told him that the only mistake his captain made was to follow the codex too striktly. The codex was never ment to replace a selfthinking field commander.

[Medjugorje]

I see that like you do. But the main problem he would have is the fact that the Black Templar size is very large. 

 

but b2t - do you have another chapters and their relationship. 

[Mmmmm Napalm]

How they might interact with the Fire Angels would be interesting. On one hand, the Fire Angels also view the Emperor as divine, but on the other hand they are also really up-tight about following the codex, which might result in them being antagonistic towards the Templars.

 

If there was ever a chapter the Templars would get along with swimmingly, it's the Hospitallers. Fellow worshippers of the God-Emperor, Sons of Dorn, and not entirely codex-compliant to boot. The Templars would likely find the "euthanize mortals to save them from dying at the hands of mankind's enemies" thing to be repugnant, though.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Mmmmm Napalm

[Medjugorje]

The fire Angels fought alongside the Templars so far as I know in a conflict. The Red Scorpions have the same problem, they believe in the Emperor as a god but suddenly see the Codex Astartes as holy as the Emperor.

 

So it would be very interesting how they would act together but honestly its about how the official cannon already worked out so far.

[Brother Kraskor]

(I don't know the answer to this) did the Blood Angels blame the Imperial Fists at all for not being there at the crucial moment on the Vengeful Spirit? I have a niggling feeling I saw this somewhere. That would filter down to the Templars also.

[Medjugorje]

(I don't know the answer to this) did the Blood Angels blame the Imperial Fists at all for not being there at the crucial moment on the Vengeful Spirit? I have a niggling feeling I saw this somewhere. That would filter down to the Templars also.

never heard of this. But in general after 10.000 years there are changes in behavior. The Space Wolves for example had great respect for the Imperial Fists and the group of wolves that should watch over Dorn were not amused to do this because they had absolutly no doubt in the Fists loyalty.

 

The Black Templars now see them just as pagans what I know so far.

[Medjugorje]

Then I will continue:

 

The Imperial Fists. Nothing to say more I think but it would be interesting to hear something about the other successor chapters like the Executioners for example. I didnt read the Beast series. I´ve heard that the Crimson Fists and our beloved chapter are not as tied as they are (now?) back in 4th edtion codex.

[redmapa]

I see that like you do. But the main problem he would have is the fact that the Black Templar size is very large. 

 

 

Back in the 4th edition codex there's a page showing Crusades on a galactic map, its shown as a study by the Office of Tithes into the numbers of the Black Templars and its basically an adept telling his master that there's evidence that the Chapter is beyond the limitation of marines written in the Codex Astartes,  so I do think the High Lords know of this and if they know so does Guilliman, so what does Guilliman do with this information? He gives the Chapter MORE marines so I dont think Guilliman cares about our violation of the laws he wrote after the Heresy, in Dark Imperium there's a part where he admits to breaking his own rules and how the Ultramarines are aghast at how he commands the unnumbered sons which are legion sized and I think he even wonders if the breaking of the legions was the right choice.

 

Guilliman may have problems with us but  I think our numbers isnt one of them.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Guilliman is rewriting everything. He realises now that it was a mistake to let mortals run the Imperium. That's why he's increasing the number of chapters, putting marines in places of power within the administration of the Imperium, such as the triarchs, and he ran a crusade with tens of thousands of marines. The Imperium he left was much more peaceful, and much more prosperous. The one he returned to is weak, corrupt and beset on all sides. He's the eternal pragmatist, he adapts

[Ishagu]

Guilliman doesn't necessarily believe that putting mortal men in charge was the mistake.

 

He regrets breaking up the 500 worlds however. They were Utopian when compared to the rest of the humanity's worlds. They could have served as an example to the rest of the Imperium, and could have inspired more and more systems to operate as they do. It would have been better for everyone from the common citizen to the Planetary governors. If the whole of humanity lived like the people in Ultramar do, everyone would be richer, more powerful, better equipped and there would be far less internal conflict. Guilliman told Dante to improve the conditions on Baal after re-enforcing the Blood Angels. In his wisdom he remarked that: "It's easy for a man to give his loyalty to the Devil, when he already lives in Hell"

 

Upon his return he was quick to re-form Ultramar into what had been at the height of the Imperium prior to the Heresy. As for the Legions, it's difficult to say. They do potentially give one person too much power but can be effective when going on the offensive around the galaxy. After Chaos was defeated during the scouring and the Imperium experienced over a thousand years of relative peace, the Legions weren't necessary.

 

But after Abaddon broke Cadia? After the Imperium was sundered in two and was nearly defeated? Guilliman is a pragmatist. If the circumstances call for something he will do it.

 

The relationship between the Ultras and Templars is extremely strong. BT fought alongside Guilliman during the Terran crusade and were present when he awoke.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Ishagu

[Marshal Reinhard]

Not gonna comment much about non BT matters, but I can't let this slip:

 

The relationship between the Ultras and Templars is extremely strong. BT fought alongside Guilliman during the Terran crusade and were present when he awoke.

 

To us Black Templars the words "Terran Crusade" refers to when we led the charge against Vandire on Terra during the age of Apostacy in M36, which eventually leads to the formation of the sisters of battle.

 

 

That is all.

[Medjugorje]

Is there any information how the relationship between the Black Templars and the Iron Hands? Both believing in the Emperor as a god but on very VERY different ways