IA: Templars of Dorn

[Sigmarius]

I have changed the name of this chapter, and done some extensive reworks to their lore. You can find that new information here:

IA: Knights of Madrigal

Edited August 31, 2021 by Sigmarius

[Sigmarius]

I'll be honest, I'm struggling with a...theme, and what makes the chapter unique.  So I'm open to suggestions.

 

I'm also considering changing the name to Knights of Madrigal, cause I really like it, but I'm not sure how to get there.  I know I want there to be a lore reason for the name change, but I can't work out how to get there.  I was thinking of maybe having the survivors of the Old Marines being slaughtered by the Iron Warriors, and Madrigal being the name of the Fortress Monastary.  But I can't figure out in my head how to make it...work.

 

This is re-write (ish) to my old fluff, the Praetorians of Dorn.

C&C welcomed and encouraged.

Edited June 9, 2020 by Sigmarius

[gripschi]

First, Please choose the Standardt Colour. Your First Post isnt readable at Phone.

 

Second, maybe your First Crusades with more then 90% losses, might be a bit extreme.

 

Rebuilding so much, would Take several Decades, 100 wouldnt be enough for Battle Readiness.

 

Your "Madrigal Knights" Sound way better. Maybe Couple it with there Change and Petinent Crusade after the Intervention of the Salamanders.

 

To Show that they See themselves as Knights rather then merly Wartolls. Maybe its a Important Place, which truley forced them to Change during there Petinent Crusade.

 

But its still a good Start.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

I second gripschi's suggestion to change the text color; this website's Mobile Version (for smart phones) uses a white background by default, meaning the white letters are invisible unless the reader highlights them. You should also add blank lines between each paragraph; the tabs used to differentiate paragraphs are automatically deleted when a *.txt or *.doc file is converted to *.html, rendering this IA a "wall of text" that's difficult to read.

 

Further suggestions:

Taking advantage of a gap in Octavianus’s defenses,

You may eliminate the "s" after "Octavianus'", i.e., write "Octavianus' defenses".

Octavianus was rushed back to the chapter flagship, where he is believed to have succumbed to his wounds.

Before I read the detail stating Octavianus was interred in a Dreadnought sarcophagus, I assumed the line "he is believed to have succumbed to his wounds" was a lie, meant to hide the fact the Chapter Master succumbed to CHAOS CORRUPTION, maybe due to his opponent using a Daemon weapon.

 

If you don't want your readers to make such assumptions, you should be more careful when using "mystery boxes." I know Puritan Inquisitors has zero tolerance of mysteries, and will likely order them and their keepers destroyed on sight.

Chapter Master: Lucius Domitian Aurelianus. Known to his brothers as Aurelian, and to the wider Imperium as The Domitian,

Why name the new Chapter Master "Aurelianus", with "Aurelian" as a nickname? The extra detail seems pointless.

 

What's a "Domitian"? What deed did Aurelian perform to earn him this cognomen? Does it simply refer to Aurelian's place of birth, e.g., the planet known as "Domit"?

[Brother Cambrius]

A very solid start with plenty of meat and content to play with.

 

A few things to start off with, make sure to re-read your stuff prior to posting, I spotted a handful of grammatical and spelling errors in there that broke the immersion a little in the early paragraphs telling us about their initial conflict.

 

 
they were led by the greatest foes of the VIIth Legion, the whore-sons of Perturabo, the Iron Warriors.

 

I'm not sure if the insult is necessary to be added here, simply stating that a large force of the hated rivals of the VIIth Legion led the attack against the chapter. Keeps it more formal and balanced.

 

As gripschi mentioned, the loss of so many Astartes to be at a number of 100 left standing is perhaps a touch too extreme. That would take Centuries to build upon and it's likely the colossal loss of geneseed would cripple the Templars of Dorn to a very early demise or absorbing back into their parent Chapter. I'd recommend keeping it to 250 Astartes at the very minimum. Some elements of the reserve of Battle Companies could have been deployed elsewhere and missed the carnage, performing their oath-sworn duty and arrived only in the later stages as valuable reinforcements to break the Chaos forces' backs.

 

With their apoplectic levels of genocide later on at Tecrid, there's a very high chance they could end up on the =][='s radar and lead to sanctions or even annihilation, especially this close to the events of the Heresy and the subsequent Scouring, so be careful at just how mad they go or mention how the intervention prevented the Inquisition from investigating further. Alongside the Salamanders showing up, you could also play in that elements of their parent chapter may have also arrived with Ko'van to temper their rage.

 

Now in terms of their personality or flavour you are trying to seek, from what we have here already you have a great opportunity to maybe forge these Templars of Dorn into being rigidly disciplined warriors who take control of their emotions and choler against the enemies of the Imperium. They are fierce in combat, but seek to remain as detached from their emotions taking over as much as possible. Not quite to the extent of the Iron Hands' behaviours, but just enough as they remember the consequences of blind rage leading a battle.

 

I'd love to see a colour scheme of these guys as well to get an idea of how they utilised their heritage from the Imperial Fists, but still looking distinctively different.

 

Keep it up! Always happy to see more sons of the Praetorian here to join the fold. :D

 

Cambrius

Edited June 10, 2020 by Brother Cambrius

[Brother Lunkhead]

Good to see more sons of Dorn added to our ranks Your overall narrative was a highly readable and not bogged down with too much detail and flourish. Just a few comments and questions.

 

The Tecridian Crusade:

 

The general narrative and descriptions are quite good. Failure to make use of 10th Company was a good point and key to the demise of the chapter. The destruction of the 7th and 8th companies pack a good punch and should be a keeper. As others have pointed out, casualties are still a bit excessive, so you might want to moderate those of the other companies. 

 

The epic one on one battle between Octavianus and the traitor commander should be the main element that keeps his name from going down in ignominy. You might mention that in your narrative.

 

Massacre at Tecrid Quitus:

 

I think the level of rage is not inappropriate given how young the chapter is and given all they've gone through, and all they've accomplished for the people of the Tecrid system. However, you might want to add something about the motivation of the traitors and how the revolt became so popular.

 

Intervention of the Salamanders is a good and powerful part of your story and you should keep it as is. With all due respect to Brother Cambrius , I think co-intervention by the Imperial Fists makes the story a bit crowded and diminishes the Salamanders part ever so slightly. Given the Salamanders reputation, a word or to on behalf of the Templars to the Inquisition will be enough to at least prevent their demise at the hands of the big =][=

 

Lucius Domitian Aurelianus:

 

Aurelianus is fine, but "Aurelian" ....... as in Lorgar Aurelian While the average Imperial citizen may not recognize the name Aurelian, the Templars of Dorn should and the Inquisition most certainly does.

 

"The Domitian"... Is this a reference to Roman Emperor Domitian and his ruthlessness?

 

Templars of Dorn v Knights of Madrigal:

 

Although not a very unique chapter name, Templars of Dorn is very solid and in keeping with the pragmatic nature of the parent chapter. Knights of Madrigal on the other hand sounds more musical than martial.

 

On the whole, this is a good and interesting IA. I'm looking forward to more details.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

As gripschi mentioned, the loss of so many Astartes to be at a number of 100 left standing is perhaps a touch too extreme. That would take Centuries to build upon and it's likely the colossal loss of geneseed would cripple the Templars of Dorn to a very early demise or absorbing back into their parent Chapter.

I don't think it's wrong for the Chapter to rebuild from a mere 100 survivors, so long as Sigmarius remains realistic regarding the necessary time and resources. I wrote about Chapters attempting to rebuild after suffering heavier losses.

 

Such an attempt can demonstrate the Marines' stubbornness, sheer determination- both traits they inherited from their Primarch, Dorn- and pride in the colors.

I'd recommend keeping it to 250 Astartes at the very minimum. Some elements of the reserve of Battle Companies could have been deployed elsewhere and missed the carnage, performing their oath-sworn duty and arrived only in the later stages as valuable reinforcements to break the Chaos forces' backs.

Good idea.

Lucius Domitian Aurelianus:

 

Aurelianus is fine, but "Aurelian" ....... as in Lorgar Aurelian While the average Imperial citizen may not recognize the name Aurelian, the Templars of Dorn should and the Inquisition most certainly does.

Thanks for pointing that out. I should've remembered that.

"The Domitian"... Is this a reference to Roman Emperor Domitian and his ruthlessness?

As it's the middle name, it's probably meant to be a cognomen. It should have a special meaning, e.g., the Chapter Master won acclaim for reclaiming the forge world "Domit" from the Iron Warriors occupying it. Edited June 10, 2020 by Bjorn Firewalker

[Brother Cambrius]

Intervention of the Salamanders is a good and powerful part of your story and you should keep it as is. With all due respect to Brother Cambrius , I think co-intervention by the Imperial Fists makes the story a bit crowded and diminishes the Salamanders part ever so slightly. Given the Salamanders reputation, a word or to on behalf of the Templars to the Inquisition will be enough to at least prevent their demise at the hands of the big =][=

 

That's a fair point, Brother Lunkhead. The Salamanders certainly would be sufficient in staying the =][='s hand (and axe). I would expect that they'd still demand some form of punishment and vigilance on the Templars of Dorn however. Maybe it could be that in the penitent crusade, an element of the Salamanders joins to keep watch and report to the big bad =][=? It would work well in helping the Chapter to establish strong ties with the XVIIIth as they change their outlook.

 

 

As gripschi mentioned, the loss of so many Astartes to be at a number of 100 left standing is perhaps a touch too extreme. That would take Centuries to build upon and it's likely the colossal loss of geneseed would cripple the Templars of Dorn to a very early demise or absorbing back into their parent Chapter.

I don't think it's wrong for the Chapter to rebuild from a mere 100 survivors, so long as Sigmarius remains realistic regarding the necessary time and resources. I wrote about Chapters attempting to rebuild after suffering heavier losses.

 

Such an attempt can demonstrate the Marines' stubbornness, sheer determination- both traits they inherited from their Primarch, Dorn- and pride in the colors. 

 

That's a good point, Bjorn. The reason why I mentioned that them going down to 100 Astartes would be so catastrophic for their survival is because they are such a new Chapter that their Geneseed banks are likely very small and would take so long to rebuild as many would have been lost/stolen/degraded by the assault upon the forces of Chaos.

 

The traits of their stubbornness and determination however would play marvellously into them finding their personality and outlook, possibly adding to the disciplined nature I mentioned in my earlier post and certainly befit the behaviours of Dorn.

 

Regarding the name change, I am not too sure on Knights of Madrigal, but it can fit in well with the mentions of their origins from the Imperial Fists, if they are made clear in the article. :) Alternatively, you could combine the two with "Templars of Madrigal"?

 

Cambrius

[Sigmarius]

Hello!

Sorry for the delayed response.  I wasn't getting notifications of replies like I thought I had it set up to do.

 

I changed the text color, so hopefully it's readable.  It was on my android phone.

 

First off, thank you all for commenting and critiquing.  Y'all had some great points, and some stuff to think about.

 

I'm going to address a couple of questions that were asked a few times here, to save some time.

 

1. I chose to drop them down to 100 marines because of a post I saw somewhere on the internet that showed how long it would take to rebuild to full chapter strength from that many marines.  As Bjorn points out, it is possible to rebuild from that size, and this link: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2016/11/16/rites-of-initiation-the-making-of-a-space-marine/ says it only takes about 55 years (which I think is a stretch, and would likely take noticeably longer).  However, I wanted them to have something traumatic happen early on in order to set up the Shame, which I'll address momentarily.

 

2. Aurelian's name: I'm a huge fan of Emperor Aurelian of Rome, and I think he's criminally under-rated, so I wanted my dude to have his name.  The Domitian was a riff on one of his names, and I honestly forgot I even did it, so I don't think I'm married to that.

 

3. Massacre at Tecrid Quintus: I put this in because of an old idea that I got from someone here YEARS ago.  The Salamanders Dreadnought was not my idea, but one that someone on this board had and strongly encouraged me to use.  Unfortunately, I can't for the life of me remember his name, or find the post.  But the idea was so good that the Massacre was built entirely as a set piece to get that Dreadnought to that point in the narrative.  The massive casualties early on were designed to set the stage for early "trauma", which led to their rebuilding and becoming fixtures in Tecrid society, which made the betrayal that much worse when it happened.  All that said, I've never been *super* happy with betrayal and massacre part, but I've yet to figure out how to make the Salamander's assistance make sense.

4. Name change: Lunkhead, the name Knights of Madrigal is inspired by a song from Myth: The Fallen Lords, and the song that was an easter egg in Halo.  Interesting, a madrigal IS a type of song, so the fact that it sounds musical is...amusing?  Interesting?  Cool?  I can't find the right word here.

Here's where the narrative threads are going in my head, but they aren't solid yet.  From a tabletop perspective, I'm getting out of old marines.  I just like the primaris ones too much.  So, I'm working on a narrative reason for that change (although I'm keeping a squad of TH/SS terminators and a termie chaplain, and they'll the be keepers of the old ways, to keep the old ways in memory for as long as possible).

 

All of my explanations are meant to be just that, explanations into my thought process.  Not a lot of it is unchangeable, if there's a better idea out there.

 

As of the moment, the color scheme is just the stock Imperial Fist yellow, with Black Templar iconography, and *likely* using the BT method of differentiating between the different battlefield roles.  Of course, this may change since Averlund sunset rattle cans are OoP, and I utterly loathe painting.  So, I'm considering switching them to primary red, very similar to the Exorcists.  Hell, I'm even thinking about making THAT change in the narrative as well.

 

I'll work on grammar and spelling later on, I need to get to bed.  But legitimately, thank you for the assistance on this.

 

Final note: Bjorn, you made a comment about the chapter master and a secret box, and how you first suspected he had been tainted.  But no one has any idea what happened to Captain Nero of the 4th Company... 

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Instead of nicknaming Aurelianus "Aurelian" (which will make the Inquisition associate him with Lorgar and the Word Bearers), how about nicknaming him "Auric," i.e., Golden? Say he earned the cognomen after fighting beside a Custodes kill team in a certain battle, and the Custodes leader noting Aurelianus' faith and fervor; that should diminish some of the suspicion.

[Sigmarius]

Instead of nicknaming Aurelianus "Aurelian" (which will make the Inquisition associate him with Lorgar and the Word Bearers), how about nicknaming him "Auric," i.e., Golden? Say he earned the cognomen after fighting beside a Custodes kill team in a certain battle, and the Custodes leader noting Aurelianus' faith and fervor; that should diminish some of the suspicion.

 

To quote Michael Bolton from Office Space "Why should I change, he's the one who sucks?!"  Ha!

 

I swear there's some other characters running around out there with Heresy Era traitor names.  I thought.

[KBA]

^Yeah, I’m with you in that. You’re telling me in 10,000 years there wasn’t a space marine recruit named Horus or Magnus? Completely plausible, and harmless, in my opinion.

[Bjorn Firewalker]

^Yeah, I’m with you in that. You’re telling me in 10,000 years there wasn’t a space marine recruit named Horus or Magnus? Completely plausible, and harmless, in my opinion.

Know any living people named "Adolf Hitler" or "Judas Iscariot"? That should give you an idea just how hated Horus Lupercal was.

[KBA]

Doesn’t that comparison imply everyone and their dog in the imperium had common knowledge of the Heresy— something that wasn’t the case?

[Bjorn Firewalker]

Doesn’t that comparison imply everyone and their dog in the imperium had common knowledge of the Heresy— something that wasn’t the case?

The bits and pieces they DO know should be enough. Remember, we do get to see things from the average Imperial subject's POV in various works, e.g. menial workers at forge worlds (Wrath of Iron, Aaron Dembski-Bowden's Night Lords novels), hive and agri-world inhabitants of various castes, classes, and occupations (Gaunt's Ghosts), death world inhabitants (William King's novels portray Ragnar before he became a Space Wolf, and I remember a Catachan colonist's initiation ritual into a Regiment, in an Imperial Guard omnibus).

[gripschi]

The Empire truly Fell after the ,War of the Beast.

 

Till this time they had a Golden Age, many Veterans and even Primarch we're still alive.

 

During this Time, the Open use of Aureloan would surley Trigger some Action.

 

Now 10.000 Yeats later, this changed. The Empire grew to His current Form.

 

And 55 Years dont mean Battle Readiness, it mean enough Geneseed. To rebuild entire Companies and there Wargear, they need a stable Recruit World and ideally a Forgeworld Ally too.

 

But this would allow to shape there Equipment.

[Brother Lunkhead]

 

Instead of nicknaming Aurelianus "Aurelian" (which will make the Inquisition associate him with Lorgar and the Word Bearers), how about nicknaming him "Auric," i.e., Golden? Say he earned the cognomen after fighting beside a Custodes kill team in a certain battle, and the Custodes leader noting Aurelianus' faith and fervor; that should diminish some of the suspicion.

 

To quote Michael Bolton from Office Space "Why should I change, he's the one who sucks?!"  Ha!

 

I swear there's some other characters running around out there with Heresy Era traitor names.  I thought.

 

 

 

^Yeah, I’m with you in that. You’re telling me in 10,000 years there wasn’t a space marine recruit named Horus or Magnus? Completely plausible, and harmless, in my opinion.

 

 

Doesn’t that comparison imply everyone and their dog in the imperium had common knowledge of the Heresy— something that wasn’t the case?

 

A loyal Imperial couple decide that the name "Horus" would be a splendid name for their newborn  The birth certificate comes to them with the name "Rupert". They think "Rupert" is a VERY splendid name  (they are smart enough to know not to ask questions).

 

The average Imperial citizen may not know these heretical names, but there are those who do, and they are always watching

 

Having said that, this is YOUR chapter. If you are set on Aurelian, then you should do so. I'll support that.

[Deadass]

A brief search on Lexicanum on the term Aurelian shows you the disambiguation page: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Aurelian_(disambiguation)

 

With sub-sectors, crusades and even a Grey Knights Brother-Captain sporting similar or identical names, I don't think it is that big a deal. His first name isn't Lorgar, he doesn't style himself the 'Urizen'. As an aside, there are even people named Magnus in the Imperium. I'd say it's perfectly fine to call him Aurelianus and use the shortened version.

[Brother Lunkhead]

A brief search on Lexicanum on the term Aurelian shows you the disambiguation page: https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Aurelian_(disambiguation)

 

With sub-sectors, crusades and even a Grey Knights Brother-Captain sporting similar or identical names, I don't think it is that big a deal. His first name isn't Lorgar, he doesn't style himself the 'Urizen'. As an aside, there are even people named Magnus in the Imperium. I'd say it's perfectly fine to call him Aurelianus and use the shortened version.

 

GREAT EMPEROR'S HOLY HANGNAIL .......Is there no end to Lorgar's corrupting influence? 

 

Nice bit of research there Brother Horrible Aurelian is good to go