Rise of the Spider? Fabius for Anyone?

[Cheex]

I don't think running an extra Supreme Command Detachment or two in order to squeeze in Bile will put us at a huge disadvantage. As it stands now there is huge variability in CP with some starting a game with 24 fighting someone else with 8. My question is whether or note Bile is worth his points as a plug and play character. Is +1 toughness on a squad of 8 single-wound berserkers in a rhino much of an improvement?

 

Probably not, especially since he won't be able to ride with the Berzerkers, and he can't even buff the Berzerkers before they embark. I don't think he even gets the Creations of Bile keyword (someone with the book, please correct me if I'm wrong), so even in his own detachment he's not able to ride in a transport.

 

I'm honestly struggling a bit to find a good use for Bile outside of unlocking the Creations trait. T6 Obliterators are tempting, and T5 CSM to hold objectives could work, maybe?

[Panzer]

 

I don't think running an extra Supreme Command Detachment or two in order to squeeze in Bile will put us at a huge disadvantage. As it stands now there is huge variability in CP with some starting a game with 24 fighting someone else with 8. My question is whether or note Bile is worth his points as a plug and play character. Is +1 toughness on a squad of 8 single-wound berserkers in a rhino much of an improvement?

 

Probably not, especially since he won't be able to ride with the Berzerkers, and he can't even buff the Berzerkers before they embark. I don't think he even gets the Creations of Bile keyword (someone with the book, please correct me if I'm wrong), so even in his own detachment he's not able to ride in a transport.

 

I'm honestly struggling a bit to find a good use for Bile outside of unlocking the Creations trait. T6 Obliterators are tempting, and T5 CSM to hold objectives could work, maybe?

 

 

He has the Creations of Bile keyword, he just doesn't benefit from its trait because of the Shadowy Allies rule which explicitly still applies. However that also means you don't have to take a separate detachment just for him. Just throw hin into whatever detachment you are running if you have a free HQ slot and you are good.

 

Enhanced Warriors is best used on a unit of Cultists or Possessed I'd say. Perhaps Warp Talons too, though they are rather meh unless you play them in a NL detachment so they can charge out of reserves reliably or in a CoB (Creations of Bile) detachment for that sweet M13 S5 and Macrotensile Sinew Stratagem.

Use it on Berzerkers after they've done their job and it just so happens that they are still alive once Bile caught up with them (unlikely I know, but you never know).

[Prot]

I'm thinking about how I put Bile into my Black Legion for 9th ed. And I realized a perfect solution that I think would have been perfectly fluffy:

 

- If Bile is not in his own detachment, he could be either an HQ or an Elite choice. 

 

This would have been big. As of now I have the model, but he's sitting in his box. I think like most of us, I'm trying to imagine most of my lists in the next edition. GW's propensity  to continue with the high profit, single HQ upgrade models has really, really put Chaos in a bind for 9th. I'm not sure Fabius will make the cut in such a highly contested slot.

[chapter master 454]

Howdy traitors, just popping in because I was wondering if anyone considered making an Uber Lord discordant. I know he is a target but...he does naturally heal 1 wound a turn, with a bile relic he can be healing 2 wounds per turn by himself plus having +1 to his saving throw (which for his big body, really handy to has a 4+ save against lascannons). Pair that with any of the supreme creation options and you can have a scary boy indeed, though the first one is least impressive I suppose (though I like it) with the second and third being good, the second making it far more terrifying as it runs across the battlefield at full speed with bonus attacks OR you can have a 6+ feel no pain and if he lands in combat he can heal up to possibly 5 wounds in a turn.

 

All because he has the character keyword.

Reminds me of the good time when I could uber a land raider excelsior to T9.

Unless ofcourse I missed a detail here but I did check...Character is all he needs to qualify isn't it?

Also not saying it would be good but hey, could be a fun model idea.

[Special Officer Doofy]

Disco Lord's are easy targets because they are 12w and can't hide. I find most people get the most out of them with target saturation (multiple Lord's or something even more threatening). I don't know if stacking buffs on one is the best approach, but to be honest I haven't really looked at what Bile's little faction can do. I just wished the whole 9w character thing was extended up to 18w characters. Disco Lord's could be traveling in packs with Maulerfiends then instead of in packs of... other Disco Lord's haha. Edited July 1, 2020 by Putrid Choir

[Panzer]

You could also build yourself a Terminator Lord with S7 and T5 (with the Slaanesh Elixir) and then take whatever weapon you fancy (Chainfists for a ridiculous S14 for example :D ). Or instead of the Elixir the faction specific armour so you end up with a 1+ armour save and regenrate a wound each turn.

[chapter master 454]

Disco Lord's are easy targets because they are 12w and can't hide. I find most people get the most out of them with target saturation (multiple Lord's or something even more threatening). I don't know if stacking buffs on one is the best approach, but to be honest I haven't really looked at what Bile's little faction can do. I just wished the whole 9w character thing was extended up to 18w characters. Disco Lord's could be traveling in packs with Maulerfiends then instead of in packs of... other Disco Lord's haha.

 

I assume as much. Not hard to blast 12W off the board but still fun. Personally, in my own little workshop of wonders I've put Bile to the slab in a twist where I actually find his rules somewhat...odd. The +1 to strength and Movement as a trait is very powerful, having made many a person rethink melee with my catachans just because those guys being strength 4 does make them kinda mean and for marines, thankfully all the grounds they are in tend to help elevate their damage output as strength 5, 6 and 7 are all valuable. Notably Bile seems to REALLY like getting melee going and so seems to pair best with a side of night lords (especially since his warlord trait revolves around that gimmick) and since he is really choosey about who gets his buffs (aka most of his stratagems actually explicitly exclude cultists) this means he seems bested suited to being in a supreme command detachment along with his chosen puppy of the week maybe paired with some side projects (He honestly seems like a twisted parody of hobbyists...always one more model! ;P) and then slap that with whatever you like.

Question is, does his puppy match up to what you want since that is his only contribution to your army in reality as he isn't in the habit of bringing morphine for anyone but himself. Kind of sad really his experiment power stuff didn't go further than just making melee powerhouses since his lore had him amp psychic powers of that forgettable former chapter master. Suppose you have 1k sons for making super psykers.

 

Personally, I can get where bile is coming from but he isn't very good at his craft...I managed to find you can make a strength 11 HQ from the GSC abominant, he can wound a titan on a 2+. Fun.

 

Really while he may be significant in what he can do, sadly he really doesn't do much despite being capable of being central to many more plots and instead is GWs reserve bad guy to go to when they need a Diablos Ex Machina which so far they haven't had trouble doing since they Retconned abbadon's fail crusades into some grandiose interconnected scheme (partly worked imo...). But yea, trying to cook anything with your chaos boys is a challenge...now I see why you always bring Maulerfiends and Havocs...you guys have lots of toys but they are all missing ether a leg, arm or all limbs to stand, carry and speak with. There's fun stuff to cook but it always ends up feeling half baked...yikes you boys need some help.

 

(but don't tell the inquisition I said that)

[Sonoftherubric21]

Does anyone else see what I see? 

Fabius Bile can make basic Chaos Space Marines into budget berzerkers. 

 

Str 5 and Spd 7, the Astartes chainsword is confirmed by someone that has the book as ap-1..... 
Cheapo marines with that statline....not to shabby.... 

Marines coming out of rhinos with sword/pistol, *maybe* footslogging. Juice might be worth the squeeze? 

Easy access to +1 attack or +1 Tough (the go to!) through Fabius and Strats feels like we are getting something pretty solid.

[Panzer]

Does anyone else see what I see? 

 

Fabius Bile can make basic Chaos Space Marines into budget berzerkers. 

 

Str 5 and Spd 7, the Astartes chainsword is confirmed by someone that has the book as ap-1..... 

Cheapo marines with that statline....not to shabby.... 

 

Marines coming out of rhinos with sword/pistol, *maybe* footslogging. Juice might be worth the squeeze? 

Easy access to +1 attack or +1 Tough (the go to!) through Fabius and Strats feels like we are getting something pretty solid.

 

Before we get too excited, let us wait and see whether regular Chainswords in the Marine Codexes get Errata'd to be Astartes Chainswords. :sweat:

 

But yeah potentially you can play World Eaters light with Biles subfaction.

[Daemon Prince Marbas]

I'll be building a Creations of Bile army. I think the trait, stratagems, and relics will make for a fun army. Mind you, I didn't say competitive, but it'll be fun.

[Sonoftherubric21]

I'll be building a Creations of Bile army. I think the trait, stratagems, and relics will make for a fun army. Mind you, I didn't say competitive, but it'll be fun.

 

Bingo. 

 

Doing a possessed mixture by using Primaris bodies as a baseline and kitbashing them with Possessed marines.

 

"teratta" indeed. 

[Squike]

Does anyone else see what I see? 

 

Fabius Bile can make basic Chaos Space Marines into budget berzerkers. 

 

Str 5 and Spd 7, the Astartes chainsword is confirmed by someone that has the book as ap-1..... 

Cheapo marines with that statline....not to shabby.... 

 

Marines coming out of rhinos with sword/pistol, *maybe* footslogging. Juice might be worth the squeeze? 

Easy access to +1 attack or +1 Tough (the go to!) through Fabius and Strats feels like we are getting something pretty solid.

 

Yeah i feel the fact that they named it "Astartes Chainsword" means we aren't going to get it and neither are old marine imperium models. It will be reserved for the new boys to help push sales and make them better than everything else.

[Sonoftherubric21]

 

Does anyone else see what I see? 

 

Fabius Bile can make basic Chaos Space Marines into budget berzerkers. 

 

Str 5 and Spd 7, the Astartes chainsword is confirmed by someone that has the book as ap-1..... 

Cheapo marines with that statline....not to shabby.... 

 

Marines coming out of rhinos with sword/pistol, *maybe* footslogging. Juice might be worth the squeeze? 

Easy access to +1 attack or +1 Tough (the go to!) through Fabius and Strats feels like we are getting something pretty solid.

 

Yeah i feel the fact that they named it "Astartes Chainsword" means we aren't going to get it and neither are old marine imperium models. It will be reserved for the new boys to help push sales and make them better than everything else.

 

 

The quote from Saturday stream when talking about 9th was (IIRC) "Astartes Chainswords will be better then normal chainswords or other melee weapons" 

 

A "normal chainsword" would be a Guardsman holding a sword. 

 

I would wager we will get it via FAQ for any space marine holding a chainsword. My conjecture of course, but its my opinion based off their own word choice. 

[Panzer]

It's also possible that old Marines and CSM will get it but not right away and we have to wait for a new Codex (just saying so that people don't rage too hard if there's no Errata for it right away :sweat: ).

[Maschinenpriester]

It's also possible that old Marines and CSM will get it but not right away and we have to wait for a new Codex (just saying so that people don't rage too hard if there's no Errata for it right away :sweat: ).

Did we not recently get a new codex that "got written with 9th in mind"?

 

I feel that a new codex is going to take a bit longer, and maybe/hopefully comes with WE or EC standalone codices.

 

I really hope there will be a day 1 errata. I am really optimistic we will get the astartes chainsword as well.

Edited July 3, 2020 by Maschinenpriester

[Panzer]

 

It's also possible that old Marines and CSM will get it but not right away and we have to wait for a new Codex (just saying so that people don't rage too hard if there's no Errata for it right away ).

Did we not recently get a new codex that "got written with 9th in mind"?

 

I feel that a new codex is going to take a bit longer, and maybe/hopefully comes with WE or EC standalone codices.

 

I really hope there will be a day 1 errata. I am really optimistic we will get the astartes chainsword as well.

 

 

You mean written with 9th in mind like the PA books that contain Stratagems etc. that are somewhat pointless with some of the changes in 9th now? ;)

[Maschinenpriester]

 

 

 

It's also possible that old Marines and CSM will get it but not right away and we have to wait for a new Codex (just saying so that people don't rage too hard if there's no Errata for it right away ).

Did we not recently get a new codex that "got written with 9th in mind"?

 

I feel that a new codex is going to take a bit longer, and maybe/hopefully comes with WE or EC standalone codices.

 

I really hope there will be a day 1 errata. I am really optimistic we will get the astartes chainsword as well.

You mean written with 9th in mind like the PA books that contain Stratagems etc. that are somewhat pointless with some of the changes in 9th now? ;)

Kind of like that. =D

[Excessus]

 

Does anyone else see what I see? 

 

Fabius Bile can make basic Chaos Space Marines into budget berzerkers. 

 

Str 5 and Spd 7, the Astartes chainsword is confirmed by someone that has the book as ap-1..... 

Cheapo marines with that statline....not to shabby.... 

 

Marines coming out of rhinos with sword/pistol, *maybe* footslogging. Juice might be worth the squeeze? 

Easy access to +1 attack or +1 Tough (the go to!) through Fabius and Strats feels like we are getting something pretty solid.

 

Yeah i feel the fact that they named it "Astartes Chainsword" means we aren't going to get it and neither are old marine imperium models. It will be reserved for the new boys to help push sales and make them better than everything else.

 

 

We're also astartes though...heretic astartes is the official name. 

[Khornestar]

I think it’s a safe bet CSM will get them, though my fear is since we can take the chainaxe upgrade (though only for certain models/units), they won’t have seen the need to upgrade heretic chainswords. There is a long tradition of heresy-era tech being absent from the CSM wargear list, so I’ll just say I won’t be surprised if the likely upgrade doesn’t happen.

 

Seeing the ranged wargear costs for loyalists has made me hopeful, I think they’re mostly reasonable. Plasma brutes may not be absolutely horrible.

[WarriorFish]

Indeed, "Astartes" is not a word you use accidentally so I think all Marines will get it. It'd go a long way to helping 9th be good for assault :) I'm looking forward to finding out what the codex Erratas do, hopefully we can see more than just fixes to what no longer works :tu:

 

I've not had time to properly review what points have been leaked, but from the looks of it they're mostly addressing the stronger stuff? So the units that were doing heavy lifting (or will do in 9th) seem to have increased appropriately? So for those of us using "less popular" units perhaps the point increases might not make such a big difference after all... :lol:

[Prot]

Fabius in 9th is looking like a hard thing to pull off. It's not looking like he's going to be easy to fit.

 

I'd be surprised if we got any sort of variant of Astartes Chainsword at all. Maybe if it was behind the push of new models (as is the case with Assault Primaris). 

[Bulwyf]

I love Fabius fluff thanks to the trilogy from BL. I will give his own army a shot using my NL/EC as a base for it but the more I look at Bile the more I think this army just won't win games.

 

Bile has no invuln save. I had to look this over twice to confirm. You  have to take him as your warlord and he has a completely useless warlord trait. He has no invuln save so if any other character sneezes on him he's dead. Being able to heal wounds on himself or having 5+ FNP means jack squat when someone like Ragnar hits him with 10 attacks at 2 wounds each with -3 AP and did I mention no invuln save?

 

So Bile will be off the table the second he comes into contact with another character. Once he is gone you not only lose the warlord but he's not buffing anyone. You also can't put him in a transport because transports require Legion keyword and he has none. The fact he has to foot slog and require other units to stay fully within range to get his buff ability is truly ouch worthy.

[Panzer]

Well yes he's not a beatstick. Would've been completely out of character for him too. He's a support character and like other support characters you don't let him get charged by actual beatsticks. Nothing stopping you from taking another character to be your beatstick though (and he can arguably make some of the scariest CSM beatsticks with the trait and character Stratagem).

Edited July 6, 2020 by Panzer

[Are Verlo]

Bile has the fraction keyword CREATIONS OF BILE

As I see it (supported by the rules on page 76 in War of the spider) that is a LEGION keyword.

 

Otherwise not a single unit from CREATIONS OF BILE could embark on a rhino

[MegaVolt87]

Pretty sure CSM got shock assault and bolter discipline via FAQ before it was ratified via a codex. By that precedent, I don't see why we would have to wait to get astartes chainswords, when they can just be added via FAQ like last time.