Primaris Outriders

[Skywrath]

Stat Sheet has been announced. Having 4 wounds is pretty nice, but overall, thoughts? Have to look at their weapon profiles to think if they are better than firstborn ravenwing, but at the moment pretty stoked with 4 wound bikes. Will update OP when the weapon profiles are announced.

 

M 14, WS 3, BS 3, S4, T5, W4, A2, Ld 7, Sv 3

 

Link: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/16/indomitus-focus-get-on-your-bike/

[INKS]

Yeah, I'll be buying at least one full sqaud of these for my Ravenwing. Maybe 2 in total. I never did get around to making Black Knights, so this might be a good conversion to go with the new bike frames for them.

[Master Sheol]

Rumors data they have +2A on the charge and the astartes chainsword Will Grant another bonus A too

My guess is that the astartes chainsword will be a -1AP chainsword

With these things the Outriders will be nice in HtH

[Skywrath]

Rumors data they have +2A on the charge and the astartes chainsword Will Grant another bonus A too

My guess is that the astartes chainsword will be a -1AP chainsword

With these things the Outriders will be nice in HtH

 

Where was said rumor?

[Captain Antargo]

There should definitely be a Chainsword update, as Master Sheol said, -1 AP. I would expect that to be an absolute minimum though.

[Angel of Solitude]

Would play well into the doctrines if you had something that could stay in strategic reserves turn 1, outflank in turn 2 with an AP-2 bolt weapon, and then be brutal in the charge turn 3 with a AP-2 weapon and 4/5 attacks each. True Ravenwing right there.

[UtariOnzo]

I can see these guys being quite the one-two combo with our BKnights. Tanky and so far not bad in melee. Pretty much sold that they’re going to have the right keywords from launch too given they’ve not mentioned “Dark Angels” once, exclusively referring to “Ravenwing” instead in all the official literature

[BluejayJunior]

 

Rumors data they have +2A on the charge and the astartes chainsword Will Grant another bonus A too

My guess is that the astartes chainsword will be a -1AP chainsword

With these things the Outriders will be nice in HtH

 

Where was said rumor?

 

Not a rumor. Stu Black straight up said they get +2 attacks on the charge. And confirmed they have 6 attacks per model on the charge. 

 

Still don't know the stats for Astartes Chainswords. It was confirmed they have heavy bolt pistols and twin bolt rifles.

[G8Keeper]

They're going to be filthy. Expect a hefty points dent though. I'm gonna grab 6 straight up for my Ravenwing.

[Skywrath]

Bit of an interesting musing - they refer to this bike as the Raider Variant, does that mean there are more bikers in store for us? If this bike is the Ravenwing Biker, does that mean there is a counterpart to the Black Knight?

 

But yes, those bikes are filthy in all aspects. DA high tier confirmed with 9th release?

[Angel of Solitude]

As others have suggested, I think their points will reflect their potency, and until we see the 9th Ed codex, I’m not sure we have enough to allow us to exploit the bikes better than any of the other chapters.

 

Also, I don’t think we’ve had enough of a reveal on how important Troops will be in 9th edition. My gut suggests that a Ravenwing Outrider detachment might be absolutely brutal in some circumstances, but will be too unbalanced for top tier performance.

[UtariOnzo]

Are our ravenwing doctrines/stratagems we currently have from PA/Codex weaker than other chapter doctrines/stratagems for bikes? Don’t know the Codex or BA ones, but I do know we have specific biker and ravenwing ones

[Master Sheol]

 

 

Rumors data they have +2A on the charge and the astartes chainsword Will Grant another bonus A too

My guess is that the astartes chainsword will be a -1AP chainsword

With these things the Outriders will be nice in HtH

Where was said rumor?

GW stated that the new primaris units (assault intercessors and outriders) all have Astartes Chainswords and they stated that they are Better than regular chainswords

Although GW still refuses to say the rules for the astartes chainswords the Guess is that they will be just chainswords with added -1AP

[Angel of Solitude]

Are our ravenwing doctrines/stratagems we currently have from PA/Codex weaker than other chapter doctrines/stratagems for bikes? Don’t know the Codex or BA ones, but I do know we have specific biker and ravenwing ones

Well. Having 3 W4 bikes going up the field would be an alternative option for Combined Assault. Plus Evasive Assault gives our bikers 5++ when charged, and Full Throttle to get us up the table. Or you could use the Outrider warlord trait to get yourselves up the table fast...

 

Hmmm, as assault-focused Outrider squad might be quite brutal.

[ValourousHeart]

My gut suggests that a Ravenwing Outrider detachment might be absolutely brutal in some circumstances, but will be too unbalanced for top tier performance.

 

We will be shooting more and more accurately in 9th.  The question isn't if we'll perform well in top tier, the question is will top players shift off the mindset that Talonmaster is the only RW unit available.  If they are willing to build out their collections to really have the options required to make RW competitive, it will happen.  But I'm not optimistic that they will do so.

 

I expect that the meta will remain on the same axis that it has all of these years because players aren't willing to deviate to far from the 3rd edition Force Org Chart.

 

Are our ravenwing doctrines/stratagems we currently have from PA/Codex weaker than other chapter doctrines/stratagems for bikes? Don’t know the Codex or BA ones, but I do know we have specific biker and ravenwing ones

 

That really depends on how you look at things and what you value?

 

SM have a strat called Skilled Rider which works for their bikes and speeders, it gives them 4++ if they don't advance and 3++ if they do.

It costs 2 CP and doesn't override the shooting penalties or charging restriction for advancing.

 

Our bikes and speeders have Jink on their data cards, so when we advance we get 4++ for free.

Our strat Speed of the Raven removes the penalty for shooting when advancing, and the restriction from charging for 1 CP

With PA4 we got High Speed Focus with allows are bikes and speeders to Jink if we didn't advance for 1 CP.

 

So the two most similar situations are:

 

Both bike units advance.

SM can spend 2 CP to gain a 3++ save.

RW get a 4++ save for FREE, or can spend 1 CP to shoot and charge.

 

Or both bike units don't advance.

SM can shoot and charge, they can also spend 2 CP to gain 4++.

RW can shoot and charge, they can also spend 1 CP to gain 4++.

 

There are other strats that RW get that improve how those units work together and with other DA units.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Squad of three normal bikers Counts as, check.

[ValourousHeart]

Squad of three normal bikers Counts as, check.

 

Well for those who like to build Sableclaw and Talonmaster as a bike, you might make a pretty cool conversion using the ATV.

 

Given the relation of the stat lines for a normal Bike, an Attack Bike, and the new Bike, the ATV is likely going to be 8 wounds, which will make it very similar to the Ork Dragsters.

Those are $50 after the price change and about 80 - 100 points.

I wonder how close that will be to the actual costs and points of the ATV?

[Chaplain Raeven]

Squad of three normal bikers Counts as, check.

 

Wait, did I just hear you say you would buy/build/paint Primaris? 

[Interrogator Stobz]

Nope, you read it the wrong way around Brother; I'll use Classic bikes with the new rules when the time is right.

We can all get excited about rules that better reflect the Eliteness of Space Marines

 

I'm not wasting my four full classic squads of six bikers, an attack bike and a land Speeder just because there is a new shiny option; far too much time and money invested for that. The new minis look alright, but I'm happy with the Classics.

 

Edited June 17, 2020 by Interrogator Stobz

[G8Keeper]

Nope, you read it the wrong way around Brother; I'll use Classic bikes with the new rules when the time is right.

We can all get excited about rules that better reflect the Eliteness of Space Marines

 

I'm not wasting my four full classic squads of six bikers, an attack bike and a land Speeder just because there is a new shiny option; far too much time and money invested for that. The new minis look alright, but I'm happy with the Classics.

 

 

Just do as I do, plan some huge games so you can take both :D.

 

I joke, Primaris isn't for everyone and that's completely fine.

[Gederas]

Nope, you read it the wrong way around Brother; I'll use Classic bikes with the new rules when the time is right.

We can all get excited about rules that better reflect the Eliteness of Space Marines

 

I'm not wasting my four full classic squads of six bikers, an attack bike and a land Speeder just because there is a new shiny option; far too much time and money invested for that. The new minis look alright, but I'm happy with the Classics.

 

Just do as I do, plan some huge games so you can take both .

 

I joke, Primaris isn't for everyone and that's completely fine.

I mean, I'm planning on running both.

 

If I can now run a purely Ravenwing list in 9th without any issue, I'm sure as hell going to do that :lol:

[G8Keeper]

Some of the first games I play will be happy go lucky RW and DW individual forces.

[Angel of Solitude]

So, just thinking of some nasty CP-heavy combos, how about this:

- large blob of Outriders

- Ravenwing Ancient with Outrider warlord trait and Standard of the Unforgiving Hunt

 

On deployment, deploy right at the edge of your deployment zone. If you get first turn, then use the warlord trait to move 12” up the table. Otherwise, use the 12” to get into cover.

 

Turn 1, make a 21” move up the table, spending 1CP for Speed of the Raven. Shooting phase, unleash your bolters at any screen you need to. Charge phase, you get +1 to your charge roll, which should comfortably get you into combat.

 

In the fight phase, obliterate your enemy with a large (7?) number of attacks:

 

2 base +1 chainsword +1 Shock Assault +2 Outrider rule +1 Ancient

 

On top of this, you could also:

- 2CP Combined Assault some Deathwing in

- Jetpack Chaplain to FB (1) +2” charge and +3” pile in, (2) 5+++, (3) exploding 6’s

 

I shall be trying this out!

[G8Keeper]

Oh my Emperor that is insane! You could run them with Sammael and a Talonmaster too for re-roll hilarity, not to mention Transhuman Physiology.  This is assuming all of these work as they do now of course.

[Interrogator Stobz]

Nice idea, but  limited by the rumored max three bikes in the unit.