Picking between IF, BT, and BA

[Arch69]

Hello 
 
So am stuck on picking my chapter to paint and play with. It’s between Imperial Fists, Black Templars or Blood Angels.
 
How did you mange to pick yourself in the end and when you did do u think you should have done the other ones? Just that am really stuck I like all 3 the same the colour and lore of each are on the same level to me.
 
And please no silly comments. It’s seriously been over a mouth since I’ve got the models just can’t decide. Am just worried if I go for one I’ll regret not doing the other. Has this happened to anybody else?

Edited June 17, 2020 by Arch69

[N1SB]

Yes, you're not alone, and it's a good thing you're saving yourself months/years before committing to a Chapter.

+++ On Black Templars and Black from a PCA view +++

Black is easy to paint, but hard to paint well, imho.

I went with Iron Hands for Horus Heresy, so I went with a black colour scheme. Then for various projects in 8th ed and Kill Team, I also did Black Templars and Deathwatch, also black colour schemes. I've gotten okay/decent/passable imho in painting black...but there's many better painters of black here on B&C...and I always feel our skills (not just mine, but any of those great guys) would've been better served with another colour scheme.

Some black Marines I did:

Oh, a moment to talk about what I do. I just have my own technique for painting black to try to bring out the details. I actually highlight it with a turquoise, it's a colour I deliberately choose to trick the eye, it doesn't look like I'm just trying to force it with grey, I can do a cold temperature gradient with it, makes it pop more in 3D. Here's a sample of mine against someone else who didn't do that (he's a good painter, but you can tell he just hard-edged stuff with grey):

It's like mine is somehow a "brighter" black without resorting to being grey, like its jet black but just under a better lighting. We're actually under the same lighting, and my friend on the right of this pic has gotten more red which makes his black darker. Anyway.

+++ On Imperial Fists and Yellow from a PCA view +++

Yellow is not easy to paint, but does look good.

I found I love the look of yellow on the tabletop, but just imho, it's a harder colour to "worth with" than others. Like a yellow scheme can be spoiled easily, not very forgiving. But boy does it pop on the battlefield, I consider it almost like a form of street cred when someone manages to paint yellow, because it's hard but rewarding.

Colour-related but not 40k-related, I did a Blood Bowl team with yellow. But the point of even that choice is, I chose it for a Nurgle Blood Bowl team to give me some leeway, let me shade it darker, messier, more organic:

Very different than if I did it for Imperial Fists, I might choose a real battle-worn Imperial Fists force, like they've been doing some hard-fighting in muddy battlefields, but I think most Imperial Fist players go for a very clean look.

+++ On Blood Angels and Red from a PCA view +++

Red looks great, and is easier to handle than the other colours, and with the new Contrast paints, it can look better than ever.

Here's just a sample from the early Contrast preview day they had at our Warhammer Store, I spent about 15 minutes testing both the Contrast Black Templar and Contrast Flesh Tearers Red. I was testing a Sisters of Battle scheme on a Fantasy Stormcast Celestial I never planned to field:

I left this at the store as a sample, and the black looks okay, but everyone comments on that red. That was quite the learning, I spent about the same effort because I was testing Contrast paints quickly to give up my seat to another for a go, but since then I've felt, given a choice, I should always "bet on red".

+++

I'm sharing my hard-lessons-learned because this IS a big decision, and you're clever to tap into our collective experience before you make yours.

I do actually regret choosing Marines that use a black colour scheme (because for the special projects I used those models, I liked the rules and adhered to the orthodox schemes so my opponents know exactly what they are). Yellow would be great if I were willing to spend the effort. But I like red even better, and I think it's even easier to pull off now than before.

I've looked at the new Marines in the 9th starter set and I love them, and they scream Black Templars at me, but I don't want to walk down that road again. Argh, so many ideas.

[Arch69]

Thanks for the information. This will help a lot.

 

I think am good with the yellow as my airbrush should help with that. 
 

Am narrowing it down bit by bit I enjoy all of them. Am doing cons and pros for all three with the lore and look.

 

Blood Angels pros. Look great, Love close combat and fast play style. Also lore wise there sweet at the siege of terra and all over the place during the Hersey.

 

Cons. Primarch is dead this is a big thing as I collect Black Legion so no primarch there and I kinda want one. Don’t like any of the Characters. 
 

Imperial Fists Pros. Lore wise siege of terra is a massive thing for me as I loved reading the lore about it when younger.
Yellow looks great and my airbrush would help. Primarch might come back. 
 

Cons. Play style am more of a mixed player I like close combat and some range. 
 

Black Templars Pros, Black looks amazing, Close combat with some range and the lore is nice.

 

Cons. No librarians kinda sucks as I have a very nice vanguard model. And this is a purely lore thing next and kinda silly but am always against the Emperor being worshiped as a god and there do that. 

 

Sorry for the messy layout. Hopefully this helps people understand my thoughts. 

Edited June 24, 2020 by Arch69

[Firedrake Cordova]

If you like the colour scheme, lore, and play style of all three of them equally, then you're in a bit of a pickle.  The only things I can think of are:

• Paint a test model from each Chapter.  Did any of them turn out easier/more difficult/annoying/time-consuming to paint than any of the others? (you can always strip them with IPA)
• Have you considered doing a crusade army, composed of units from various different Chapters?  That'd allow you to get all of those you like in (not quite sure what you'd end up doing rules-wise though).

If you're truly stuck, I suppose you could put it in the hands of the dice gods? (half-a-joke) :lol:

[Arch69]

If you like the colour scheme, lore, and play style of all three of them equally, then you're in a bit of a pickle.  The only things I can think of are:

• Paint a test model from each Chapter.  Did any of them turn out easier/more difficult/annoying/time-consuming to paint than any of the others? (you can always strip them with IPA)
• Have you considered doing a crusade army, composed of units from various different Chapters?  That'd allow you to get all of those you like in (not quite sure what you'd end up doing rules-wise though).

If you're truly stuck, I suppose you could put it in the hands of the dice gods? (half-a-joke)

I’ll do that today see which I like more. 

 

A crusade army sounds kl. Could do that depending on the new rules for 9th for such an force.

 

It might come down to the gods of the dice.

[N1SB]

Oh, airbrush with yellow, that'd completely overcome the issues I mentioned.

 

I also think, if 9th ed rules doesn't penalise this, choosing all Chapters descended from the original Imperial Fists Legion sounds like a great idea.  All sons of Dorn.

[Skywrath]

I have a bit of an alternative option for you, if you would be interested (if not, just disregard the following). If the opinion is disregarded, I would pick Blood Angels - CMS chapters are a bit too cut and dry for me, and Jolemai with his fellow Blood Angels would be more than happy to have you. 

 

If you like fast play styles and close combat, then why not consider White Scars? Their primarch is still alive, they are a CSM Chapter, and they got a sweet spot lore wise in the heresy.  Not to mention, they are pro-librarians and primaris, which is what you wanted, and they don't worship the emperor as a God. Meta-wise, I believe they were strong, last I checked. 

Problem is, white is a real annoyance to paint - you could undercoat the miniature with a corax white spray, and shade the areas with nuln oil, but if you are inexperienced that could be a real annoyance to get right.

 

I may be biased in saying this, but if we were to look at non CMS chapters, then would you consider Dark Angels? Primarch is also alive, and they are notoriously anti-Inquisition and worship of the Emperor. They are also pretty fast with the Ravenwing, and the Deathwing in melee is arguably one of the best melee units in the game, with Deathwing Knights. Meta-wise, not great, unless you run pure Ravenwing, in which case mid-tier. But that might be a benefit to you, as the Ravenwing consists nearly 100% of bikes, with a few land speeders thrown in there. But regardless of how not great they are at the moment, they will always be my main faction, alongside the Grey Knights.

 

Semi-serious note: Grey Knights also fit your bill, with psychic potential, but at this point, I'm grasping at straws.

[Arch69]

Oh, airbrush with yellow, that'd completely overcome the issues I mentioned.

 

I also think, if 9th ed rules doesn't penalise this, choosing all Chapters descended from the original Imperial Fists Legion sounds like a great idea.  All sons of Dorn.

It’s a very good idea. A bit like Valraks force the last wall. I definitely think on this

 

 

I have a bit of an alternative option for you, if you would be interested (if not, just disregard the following). If the opinion is disregarded, I would pick Blood Angels - CMS chapters are a bit too cut and dry for me, and Jolemai with his fellow Blood Angels would be more than happy to have you. 

 

If you like fast play styles and close combat, then why not consider White Scars? Their primarch is still alive, they are a CSM Chapter, and they got a sweet spot lore wise in the heresy.  Not to mention, they are pro-librarians and primaris, which is what you wanted, and they don't worship the emperor as a God. Meta-wise, I believe they were strong, last I checked. 

Problem is, white is a real annoyance to paint - you could undercoat the miniature with a corax white spray, and shade the areas with nuln oil, but if you are inexperienced that could be a real annoyance to get right.

 

I may be biased in saying this, but if we were to look at non CMS chapters, then would you consider Dark Angels? Primarch is also alive, and they are notoriously anti-Inquisition and worship of the Emperor. They are also pretty fast with the Ravenwing, and the Deathwing in melee is arguably one of the best melee units in the game, with Deathwing Knights. Meta-wise, not great, unless you run pure Ravenwing, in which case mid-tier. But that might be a benefit to you, as the Ravenwing consists nearly 100% of bikes, with a few land speeders thrown in there. But regardless of how not great they are at the moment, they will always be my main faction, alongside the Grey Knights.

 

Semi-serious note: Grey Knights also fit your bill, with psychic potential, but at this point, I'm grasping at straws.

 

Blood Angels are very nice. It’s a shame I just can’t decide. Wasn’t like this with my Chaos force lucky picked Black Legion straight away as I love the Sons of Horus and they are in it. In smallish numbers anyway. 

 

White Scars look good and the lore is amazing. I’d probably have a listen to an audio book with them in to see if I click with the characters and legion/chapter.

 

Dark Angels I’ve always liked them the green is amazing the lore is nice. Just that the legion/chapter wasn’t at the siege of terra and am a nutter for that story. Don’t know why it’s always just stands out for me.

I’d love to go Grey Knight am just going to wait for the updated bigger one that will hopefully come out in the future.

Edited June 24, 2020 by Arch69

[Subtleknife]

Why dont you make your own chapter then you can use whoever's rules you like. The only reason I chose to go with a first founding is because I like the scheme of Ultras so much over all the other Chapters. It is limiting though when playing in tournaments as I cant switch doctrines to which chapter is currently in vogue. Edited June 17, 2020 by Subtleknife

[Panzer]

Well I picked Blood Angels because my introduction into 40k was a friend asking me what I want to play because he wanted to buy me my first box and all I knew about 40k was from like 5 years ago when I was still playing WHFB and loosely paid attention to the few 40k players in the store (the local meta was almost exclusively WHFB).

Which was ... I knew Necrons were a some kind of army of ancient Terminators, Blood Angels are power armoured super soldiers who like to go fast and into melee so they are all about having Jump Packs (I didn't know Assault Marines weren't Troops options anymore at that time), Daemons are a thing and space elves are a thing. I wasn't particularly interested in Daemons because they were kinda broken in WHFB back then and I felt I wanted something more sci-fi when playing 40k and I'm a dwarf at heart so you'll never find me playing elves. Necrons were tempting since I was a Tomb Kings player in WHFB but I felt it was time for a new start. So Blood Angels it was.

 

Turns out it was a great pick since after reading into their lore I noticed that I love everything about them. Love the flaws, their culture, their characters, their heraldry, their history. During 7th I switched to T'au for a while because the BA rules were super bland and not that much fun to play for me and GW just released the new T'au codex with the awesome Breacher and Ghostkeel models but ever since Primaris got released I'm back fulltime with my BA.

[TPS]

Why dont you make your own chapter then you can use whoever's rules you like. The only reason I chose to go with a first founding is because I like the scheme of Ultras so much over all the other Chapters. It is limiting though when playing in tournaments as I cant switch doctrines to which chapter is currently in vogue.

Seconded!

Make your own chapter, play with the different chapter rules until you find the one you feel most comfortable with. You can even spin up a nice backstory where your chapter finally discovers who they originate from.

[BluejayJunior]

I picked Blood Angels because I fell in love with their lore/theme/units/fighting style. Black Templars were a close second (might have been my first choice if I knew more about them at the time). 

 

I second the choosing your own chapter and playing whichever way you want. 

[CMDR_Welles]

One thing to consider also is your playstyle. Do you like to sit back and shoot? Do you like a lot of vehicles? Do you want to get right up in the enemies face and cut them to pieces in Hand to Hand? 

Paint scheme, Lore, and Playstyle are the 3 key elements you need to consider, and choose accordingly. I wish I had known this a few times in my years as a gamer. I might like the lore, and the paint scheme, but if its completely against my playstyle, I'm not going to have a lot of fun at the table. Makes things difficult sometimes

[painting.for.my.sanity]

I can see a bit of discussion about White Scars, and the difficulty of painting them well - what I'd say is that things have got much easier since Contrast paints came out. Corax White spray base, shade Apothecary White, layer Corax White, edge highlight White Scar is pretty quick, gives a really nice finish, and is way more straightforward than watering down pale greys and trying to shade with them on a bright white basecoat.

 

I personally collect and play Templars because I love the lore (even though a more ranged army would probably better suit my preferred playstyle). As with white, painting black has a reputation for being difficult, though there are some easier ways to do it, like heavily shading down Eshin Grey, and if your hands are steady enough, Abaddon Black > chunky highlight Eshin Grey > fine highlight Dawnstone looks sweet (it's how I do my characters).

 

As to the neatest solution overall, it probably is to make up your own chapter and colour scheme, and let you preferred playstyle guide you towards which supplement or codex to use for them.

[Medjugorje]

There is an easy way to paint BT.

 

black prime. then forshadowing with a White/Bone (Contrast Spray) and then all parts which should be black then painting with "Black Templar" Cotrast of course. Then details for the rest.

[Arch69]

All great replies thank you all so much I really appreciate the feedback and help.

 

The custom chapter is an idea. I’ll think about it. Silver marines and some blue might look good

 

Am definitely going to check out white scars I’ve not looked into them. I never know I might find a favourite in them.

 

I do like the look of BT so the painting idea of contrast would speed things up.

Play style wise am a mix I enjoy close combat and some range. My plan was to listen to all the siege of terra books and decide on my chapter off of that. But that would take to long now. As I really want to get my force up and running.

[NiceGuyAdi]

To make up my mind on painting style, I find helpful to work on a set of the three easy-to-build Intercessors or Reivers. You could quickly do one each of Black Templars/Blood Angels/Imperial Fists/whatever and see how you feel when you've got each of them in your hand and painted.

 

Regardless, those ETB kits are really good for developing ideas on when you don't want to jump in both feet first on a more expensive kit.

[Marshal Reinhard]

First marine army i ever did was Blood Angels, back in 2nd edition. I was pretty young and impressionable. They featured all over the 2nd ed starterbox and its books. Red is also a favourite color of mine. This was in ancient times, the army was sold decades ago, and I don't even have photos of it. I took a decade+ long pause from the hobby. 

 

Fast forward prior to 6th edition hitting. I've been sucked back in, time to select a new marine chapter to do. I wanna say I specifically wanted to do a chapter that wasn't first founding, but I can't recall confidentally. At any rate i quickly landed on Black Templars. Black White and a dash of red are strong martial colours. They look dashing. Crosses are cool, the name is cool. The Templar trappings are cool (Chains, tabard, parchments, knightly helmets, little shields, even candles and braziers if you got the bits) just added to the visual appeal. Rules was never much a consideration, though their favoring of close combat, hatred of witches were also things that appealed to me.

 

Of course, a thing i dont really like about paint black, is that unless you use a kind of faux black (which is fine if you do, but isn't for everyone) you really really need to learn edge highlighting. There's gonna be a lot of edges to do, and so much focus on them because you generally cannot get any definition from shading

[Arch69]

To make up my mind on painting style, I find helpful to work on a set of the three easy-to-build Intercessors or Reivers. You could quickly do one each of Black Templars/Blood Angels/Imperial Fists/whatever and see how you feel when you've got each of them in your hand and painted.

 

Regardless, those ETB kits are really good for developing ideas on when you don't want to jump in both feet first on a more expensive kit.

Yeah am definitely going to do this. I’ve primed them up today so tomorrow am going to paint them. Hopefully it will be the end of my madness

First marine army i ever did was Blood Angels, back in 2nd edition. I was pretty young and impressionable. They featured all over the 2nd ed starterbox and its books. Red is also a favourite color of mine. This was in ancient times, the army was sold decades ago, and I don't even have photos of it. I took a decade+ long pause from the hobby. 

 

Fast forward prior to 6th edition hitting. I've been sucked back in, time to select a new marine chapter to do. I wanna say I specifically wanted to do a chapter that wasn't first founding, but I can't recall confidentally. At any rate i quickly landed on Black Templars. Black White and a dash of red are strong martial colours. They look dashing. Crosses are cool, the name is cool. The Templar trappings are cool (Chains, tabard, parchments, knightly helmets, little shields, even candles and braziers if you got the bits) just added to the visual appeal. Rules was never much a consideration, though their favoring of close combat, hatred of witches were also things that appealed to me.

 

Of course, a thing i dont really like about paint black, is that unless you use a kind of faux black (which is fine if you do, but isn't for everyone) you really really need to learn edge highlighting. There's gonna be a lot of edges to do, and so much focus on them because you generally cannot get any definition from shading

This is true about black I’ll see how I do tomorrow when I paint one up

[Elzender]

All great replies thank you all so much I really appreciate the feedback and help.

 

The custom chapter is an idea. I’ll think about it. Silver marines and some blue might look good

 

Am definitely going to check out white scars I’ve not looked into them. I never know I might find a favourite in them.

 

I do like the look of BT so the painting idea of contrast would speed things up.

Play style wise am a mix I enjoy close combat and some range. My plan was to listen to all the siege of terra books and decide on my chapter off of that. But that would take to long now. As I really want to get my force up and running.

Now that you mention the silver and blue, I think the Astral Knights have that colour scheme, and they are widely regarded as one of the most badass chapters to ever exist thanks to their actions against the necron World Engine. The World Engine is a short story that featured at least in the 5th edition Space Marines codex, and that was later expanded with a novel (which admittedly I have not read). I am not going to make any spoilers, but if you want to have a focus on primaris, they might be a good idea; as they have not been that fleshed out outside the mentioned novel, you could have some more freedom on their organization, fighting style, characters...Than more established chapters.

 

I see you are quite set on the Siege of Terra, which is all good for me as an Imperial Fist player

Edited June 17, 2020 by Elzender

[AenarIT]

My suggestion: look up some info about the Red Scorpions.

They have very nice lore, one of the best 40K miniature ever (former chapter master Culln the Risen, now interred in a Leviathan Dreadnought) from Forge World and a beautiful color scheme that involves dark/charcoal grey (close to black) and yellow details.

They are not a first founding chapter and they have no known progenitors, so you can play them as successors of whichever chapter you like the best (also based on rules).

 

The only con I have for them is the lack of official transfers for them. They had a decal sheet years ago but FW discontinued it and now they only chance is either getting an unofficial one or buying shoulder pads with raised details, either from FW or from 3d printing services like Shapeways.

Freehanding red scorpions in a white circle, on a black field is not easy nor fun to do 100+ times for an army :D

They strictly adhere to the Codex Astartes but they also worship the Emperor as a God, so if you’re not into that it could also be another con.

[Arch69]

I’ve airbrushed some models today and am liking the golden yellow I’ve achieved with Yriel Yellow. Going to do the Blood Angel tomorrow and the Black Templar. 
 

Astral Kingston look good. I’ll look into them.

 

Red Scorpions are nice but not my thing.

[dogfender]

My vote would be Relictors.

Their “inner circle” known as the conclave is comprised of the chapters best warriors and proven pure enough to make use of chaos relics that they scavenge and hunt down. They also make use of higher number of librarians than usual.

Personally I’ve been waiting for a primaris release that is about to drop. It fits the conclave very well.

[Arch69]

After a test. I’ve definitely decided that am not doing imperial fists. After seeing it with my own eyes I can say yellow on marines isn’t my thing. 
 

Am thinking BLack Templars still or Blood Angels as I’ve tested both out. The red really pops as I used the red though my airbrush.

 

And the black for marines is very nice
 

Ive taken a look at Crimson Fists to. And I must say am tempted

[Arch69]

I’ve waterbed a new thread.

 

As the other wasn’t updating for me for some reason and cliched.

 

 

But as I said before I was thinking of doing IF,BA or BT

 

After doing the test models I can definitely say Imperial Fists are out love them but the yellow is an awful colour on marines. Or anything for that matter.

 

So this leave me with BA or BT. I’ve also taken a look at Crimson Fists and am a little tempted