New edition and us

[ThePenitentOne]

So, not such a fan of large BSS Sacred Rose squads anymore- Overwatch is now too hard to use for their Order trait to make a difference, and even if it wasn't, the trait wouldn't stack with defensible terrain anyway.

 

On the plus side, my Bloody Rose penitent legion is now free to stomp the faces of many more witches.

 

Also, we were in the trailer and we're one the new 40k website. Shouldn't we have been today's faction focus?

[RolandTHTG]

They've said that there'll be a day 1 faq, so I expect the trait to get addressed. I'm waiting until the release before I strip anything. 

 

Nah, CSM share the cover of the rule book, so they make sense as an early faction focus. 

Besides, with how little they got, it's not like the focuses will give actual info. 

[toaae]

Necrons got 2 reveals (warrior points and the new gun's stats), Space Marine got 1 (volkite stats), and CSM got none. I don't expect much to be revealed during any of the faction focuses.

[Shandathe]

It strikes me as somewhat worrying that we're mostly benefiting on the units that were already good anyway.

 

That Overwatch change is actually quite a bit more valuable to our squishy assault troops than it is to beefy high-save Primaris Marines (and Necrons), I'd say.

 

Repentia already are terrifying killers in 8th to start with and their glass jaw just got decidedly less problematic when charging... Arco-Flagellants are similarly boosted if you need to get rid of a horde. So I'm guessing all Bloody Rose players are readying to blast  "Let the good times roll" from every Laud Hailer 

 

I'm so far positive overall, though it's difficult to say what the overall effect of the various rebalancings is going to be. Right now, I'd say we'll do about as well in 9th as in 8th (which is a good thing until the Codex Creep catches up with us). We should probably hold off the celebrations until we see the rest of the changes though.  

Edited June 17, 2020 by Shandathe

[Banjulhu]

Given the Sacred Rose overwatch boost is only one part of their order conviction there is a chance they may not get much of a change at all when 9th kicks off. In theory given it was the last proper codex to be released its contents should have been designed with the new edition in mind (Yeah I know we have heard that one before, but I'm willing to give the benefit of the doubt)

 

The blast rules are a bit of a worry because the new detachment rules will push us to using up points in a single detachment and that means big units of sisters, but then again unlike most other hordes the Sisters come with a decent armour save to survive the blasts a bit better

[RolandTHTG]

And it turn out we actually get a useful preview, with new rule leaks. 
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/06/18/faction-focus-adepta-sororitasgw-homepage-post-4fw-homepage-post-4/

[Montford]

If a Space Marine can turned into a Dreadnought maybe we will be able to turn a Sister into a Living Saint. 

 

Perhaps Sacred Rose, as an Order, will be allowed to Overwatch in 9th the same as they did in 8th.

 

After reading the Faction Focus my Sisters might, I stress might, be able to go to their old Armored Cavalry build again. I'd really need to see the rules firth though, can't tell with just hints.

Edited June 18, 2020 by Montford

[EmperorGTank]

I was a big mechanized infantry player back in 7th myself, with most of my squads of 10 girls in rhinos or 5 girl dominions in immolators. I have mainly switched to immolators now, with 3 of the old sculpt and 1 of the new, but depending on how this edition shakes out for us I may be picking up one more new immolator kits and maybe even a new rhino to go with my old ones. Gonna have to see. Of course I FINALLY have a collection of around 75+ plastic infantry models with almost every special, heavy, or combi weapon imaginable so I can have options in every game and now they go and change us back to viable mechanized lists. Just Sisters player problems.

[Banjulhu]

I dont quite see how the removal of the -1 on to heavy weapon to hit rolls for moving vehicles is going to make Sisters take more tanks beyond the already frequently taken fleet of Exorcists in the Heavy slot unless there has been a big points change.

 

Rhinos dont really benefit much from what we know about 9th and Immolators are just too expensive whilst only having weapons that are nothing you would write home about.

 

Hell with the new methods coming in to apparently make bringing in units from reserve more viable we could see vehicles being sidelined even further

[dracpanzer]

I suspect a double heavy flamer Repressor will not be fun to tangle with. Especially so if the passengers can still shoot at units within 1".

[Shandathe]

I dont quite see how the removal of the -1 on to heavy weapon to hit rolls for moving vehicles is going to make Sisters take more tanks beyond the already frequently taken fleet of Exorcists in the Heavy slot unless there has been a big points change.

 

Rhinos dont really benefit much from what we know about 9th and Immolators are just too expensive whilst only having weapons that are nothing you would write home about.

 

Hell with the new methods coming in to apparently make bringing in units from reserve more viable we could see vehicles being sidelined even further

 

Oh, you're mostly right. Rhinos don't care, and for Immolators the -1 being removed really only partially offsets the 10 point nerf that is the mandatory Heavy Bolter. Mind you, the Immo is a transport first and foremost, with solid fire support being a secondary function. The Immolation Flamer has a solid place in a Sisters list.

 

Anyway, in terms of Sisters, you're looking at the wrong things. Tanks aren't the only vehicles, after all. Not that we have that many, but Mortifiers and Penitent Engines are Vehicles and those things are now shooting when they're already in melee (not that they're usually in melee for long...) and the Heavy Bolter option is a lot more viable now :)

[Banjulhu]

The heavy bolter is still and will always remain a bit of a crap weapon so having the walkers be able to fire them on the move and in melee is not what I would call a big gain especially for two units that compete for a force organisation slot against the exorcist and a battlefield role with things like repentia who do it cheaper and have a lot more buffs/strategems to play with.

[taikishi]

Honestly, Big Guns Never Tire doesn't do much for Mortifiers. They could already shoot in melee with heavy flamers by treating them like pistols. Between the heavy bolters and the heavy flamers, is rather be shooting heavy flamers into melee. Average 7 auto-hitting attacks vs 6 shots hitting on 3s.

 

Here's hoping there's a change to Blaze of Agony or a buff to pistols, because right now there's no reason to fire heavy flamers as pistols in 9th. No hit roll so the penalty is ignored. Can't advance and fire either one.

[Atrus]

With the way morale has been revealed to work and how character targeting works, I deeply hope that the Bodyguard rule will get changed to being that the Bodyguard unit prevents the character from being targeted even if the Bodyguard unit is at 3 models or less (unless the character is closer to the firing unit).

 

Don't think it will, but it would be a good change imo considering the interactions.

[ThePenitentOne]

Couple things:

 

@Atrus- Current BG rule is better because it works on weapons that ignore targeting restrictions, like sniper rifles. Your pruposed change would prevent the need for a BG model to sacrifice herself and still be beneficial to the unit, but it's useless against a sniper.

 

And as for Mortifiers, you know what? I think I'll take heavy bolters. HF my have the better average, but they are less swingy and their minimum performance is better than the minimum performance of the flamer. Their currently 8 points cheaper (which might change) and if you think you can clear melee with one bolter in a shooting phase, you can declare a second unit up to 36" away rather than 8" away, not to mention they are way more versatile when not in combat.

 

And reserves are awesome for penitent units of any type- especially Repentia who have charge buffs in the form of both Repentia Superia AND MD to really nail a charge.

[Atrus]

Yeah I can see what you mean, though I was more thinking in those situations with snipers, it'd overrule their targeting. So snipers can shoot at any character they want unless there's a BG unit by that character.

 

Edit: but that's just me trying to cut down on rolling. Simulate the not able to target because of BG as being the BG passing the intercept shots.

That said, I did mention the character being targetable if its closer than the BGs. In which case the current rule would be helpful, but I don't like that I can lose multiple Celestians to a single multi damage weapon with the current rule- just doesn't make sense to me.

 

Heck even just keeping the current rule but add in that BG units always count as having more than 3 models in them even if they physically have less for the purposes of character targeting.

 

Just don't like rolling too much. Cherry picking a scenario, for morale, we gotta roll morale, and then if fail, roll Xd6 for each model in the unit for attrition and then on top of that is we have the missionary nearby, we gotta roll for each of those that copped attrition to see if they don't run away after all (I'm assuming the missionary rule will apply to attrition come day 1 faq, otherwise a big reason to take it is just gone.)

Edited June 25, 2020 by Atrus

[Atrus]

So I hear that units with fly keyword will n not be able to fall back and shoot in 9th...interesting little kick to seraphim.

Hope one day they get back their hit and run rule

[Lord Grimskull]

There's word that both missile variants on the Exorcist will be blast weapons. This will be a slight nerf in that we'll still need to screen these units (since blast weapons can't be fired in melee still, as I'm made to understand)

[EmperorGTank]

Looks like it's been confirmed through leaks, both the Exorcist Missile Launcher and Conflagration Rockets are blast weapons. Things could still change but I doubt it. Personally this just makes me think the missile launchers will always be worth it now unless they get a major points increase, since they now are anti vehicle AND get a guaranteed 9 shots against hordes. While the 18 rockets would be great against them, we need the long range anti tank more.

[Atrus]

Remind me on blast rule? My brief glass of the vehicle shooting rules a while back lead me to believe that tanks could shoot units in combat with them?

[Banjulhu]

Remind me on blast rule? My brief glass of the vehicle shooting rules a while back lead me to believe that tanks could shoot units in combat with them?

When attacking a unit with 6 to 10 models with a blast weapon no matter what you roll you will get at least 3 attacks against the unit, so if you have a blast weapon that makes 1d6 attacks like a grenade normally does and roll a 1 for the attack number it will be boosted to a 3 attacks, if you roll a 6 however you get all 6 attacks. Not totally clear how this works with weapons that make multiple d6s of attacks.

 

Against a unit with 11 or more models you will get the maximum number of attacks possible for the blast weapon.

 

Weapons with the blast rule can not be fired into combat from a vehicle/monster that is engaged in that combat

Edited July 1, 2020 by Banjulhu

[taikishi]

Can no longer use the re-roll stratagem on Miracle Dice. Per the rulebook leak, it now specifies hit, wound, damage, save, advance, charge, Psychic test, Deny the Witch, or number of attacks a weapon makes.

[Lord_Caerolion]

 

Remind me on blast rule? My brief glass of the vehicle shooting rules a while back lead me to believe that tanks could shoot units in combat with them?

When attacking a unit with 6 to 10 models with a blast weapon no matter what you roll you will get at least 3 attacks against the unit, so if you have a blast weapon that makes 1d6 attacks like a grenade normally does and roll a 1 for the attack number it will be boosted to a 3 attacks, if you roll a 6 however you get all 6 attacks. Not totally clear how this works with weapons that make multiple d6s of attacks.

 

Against a unit with 11 or more models you will get the maximum number of attacks possible for the blast weapon.

 

Weapons with the blast rule can not be fired into combat from a vehicle/monster that is engaged in that combat

 

 

It would just be that it's the case for each D6. If you have 3D6 shots with a Blast weapon, the minimum number of shots you can have against a squad of 8 guys is 9 shots, and 18 against a squad of 11 or more.

[taikishi]

The way the rule is written, you get 3 attacks minimum against units of 6-10, not "each die is a minimum value of 3". They really should have used an example that uses multiple dice to illustrate the rule, especially if they intend for it to mean "each die is a minimum value of 3".

 

Also, playing mono-faction Sisters is going to suck in larger games. Rule of 3 no longer cares what the points value is -- you're restricted to a maximum of 3 copies of a datasheet if it's not a DT or Troops unit. The rule is in the missions, in the Eternal War section.

[Lord_Caerolion]

Strictest RAW yes, that's how it's worded. I can see it being FAQ'd to be per dice quite easily.

 

Also, the Rule of 3 was always a tournament/Matched Play thing. Is it confirmed that it's being carried across into 9th?