Lemondish Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 Another new potential statline update revealed from Marine releases - HK missiles might now be Str 10. I've always thrown them onto my armour when I bring a lot, so that's nice to see. Does anyone else go deep with HK in mech heavy lists? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5583338 Share on other sites More sharing options...
taikishi Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 I haven't bothered with Hunter-Killer missiles since 2nd edition. Too many "well, that's X points wasted" moments because they failed to do something as a one-use weapon. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5583408 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montford Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 I thought I heard someone talking about Multi Meltas having their weapon profile changed. If that's true it would definitely effect Sisters. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5583575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjulhu Posted August 12, 2020 Share Posted August 12, 2020 (edited) Improved heavy weapons would be nice but I'm more concerned about trying to run sisters of battle in a world with 15pts 2 wound tactical marines (I really hope that the rumoured change is just to elite slot marines). Edited August 12, 2020 by Banjulhu Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5583609 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 The latest leak looks like a change to ALL flamer profiles to 12", not just the heavy flamer. That would be hella fun! Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5584295 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Updated 2D Heavy Bolters, D6+2 Damage 2-Shot Multi-Meltas and 12" Heavy Flamers CONFIRMED for SoB! Retributors in a Rhino just got a LOT Juicier! BitsHammer 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5584566 Share on other sites More sharing options...
taikishi Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Also 12" regular flamers and all melta-weapons getting +2D inside half. Won't just be retributors benefitting! BitsHammer 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5584570 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 The latest Warhammer Community article posted today has a lot of great new information for Sisters embedded within. Turns out all those cool weapon profile leaks we were tracking from the reboxed kit datasheets are actually true! While Marines certainly have a lot of cool things to look forward to (like extra wounds on Firstborn and Chaos Marines), Sisters are certainly going to benefit quite a lot as well. To summarize... Heavy Bolters are set to become 2 Damage ALL Flamers will gain a range increase to 12" ALL Melta weapons will gain a +2 Damage bonus at half range Multi-meltas are gaining an extra shot - they will be Heavy 2 Power Swords are set to gain a +1 Str modifier Plasma weapons will now overheat on an unmodified hit roll of 1 Best of all? When Codex: Space Marines arrives in October, every other unit that utilises the same wargear – regardless of Faction – will get their weapon profiles upgraded accordingly! In short, this has an impact on quite a few units in the Sisters arsenal. Zephyrim, Retributors, Immolators, and Mortifiers will all gain in power thanks to these changes. Some of those units were largely ignored but may see much more play depending of course on whether this will result in a points increase. I'm guessing no - many of these weapons appear to be pointed for these updates already. And that's before even considering what these new profiles might mean for bespoke weapon options. Will a Blessed Blade or Celestine's Ardent Blade gain the Str buff? Will there be a range increase on the Immolator's flamers? What about the range on Hand Flamers? Trokair and BitsHammer 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5584575 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlo Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Oooft I just realised about Zephyrim Powerswords.... That is gnarly. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5584587 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjulhu Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Apparently 30" range boltguns are a thing as well. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5584615 Share on other sites More sharing options...
taikishi Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 That may be a special issue bolter, especially since storm bolters still seem to be 24" range Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5584646 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjulhu Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 The idea of standard Heavy Bolter not sucking is a weird one in this new 2 wound space marine paradigm we find ourselves in. I mean they have been crap since 3rd ed.Actually the more I think about it they still kind of stuck. They are no better at shooting at 90% of the things they were used against before, this change really just means they are no worse when being fired at the new and improved space marine.Then again its not so bad as long as they don't get a price hike. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5584650 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Oh yes, Zephyrim will be buffed nicely. Good thing I have two boxes incoming. If I ever get them built... but yes, this does increase our anti-tank firepower quite a bit, despite the same being true for others. MM-retris double firepower, MM/HB-Immos double firepower... it's a lot, for sure. In fact, AT firepower seems to be increasing across the board so much, that I fear vehicles will quickly fade back in to obscurity because they're so easy to kill. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5584707 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 The idea of standard Heavy Bolter not sucking is a weird one in this new 2 wound space marine paradigm we find ourselves in. I mean they have been crap since 3rd ed. Actually the more I think about it they still kind of stuck. They are no better at shooting at 90% of the things they were used against before, this change really just means they are no worse when being fired at the new and improved space marine. Then again its not so bad as long as they don't get a price hike. I feel like they already did get their price hike. They're 15 points now on vehicles, 30 for the twin, and all these changes were made prior to the announcement of the damage boost. In comparison, a heavy onslaught gatling is the same points cost. Before the announcement, a twin HB would be 36" Heavy 6, Str 5, Ap -1, 1 Damage whereas a heavy onslaught was 30" Heavy 12, Str 5, Ap -1, 1 Damage. They had the same exact profile, differing only in range, but cost the same points cost. One was clearly twice as deadly as the other. Now, they both average the same amount of damage, with one having a pretty clear anti-horde role while the other is better against elite infantry. The same was true about melta - it jumped up to 25 points in the new edition, with no clear reason why...at least until today :D Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5584708 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemondish Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 Oooft I just realised about Zephyrim Powerswords.... That is gnarly. I am actually pretty excited about that. Str 5 with an Imagifier AND +1 to wound as Bloody Rose? My custom order fights Bloody Rose, so I'm super excited about this unit once again. Flight of the Valkyries was my next major project goal for this army, and while the 9th edition point bump really kind of diminished my interest, it has now come rushing back. I'm really starting to feel like I do not have enough room in my lists to include everything I want. Throne, I was ALREADY full on Elite slots in my Battalion! Oh yes, Zephyrim will be buffed nicely. Good thing I have two boxes incoming. If I ever get them built... but yes, this does increase our anti-tank firepower quite a bit, despite the same being true for others. MM-retris double firepower, MM/HB-Immos double firepower... it's a lot, for sure. In fact, AT firepower seems to be increasing across the board so much, that I fear vehicles will quickly fade back in to obscurity because they're so easy to kill. They may seem easier to kill on paper, I'm not so sure we'll see vehicles disappear. Dense Cover and Obstructing terrain will help you maneuver out of harms way, while moving no longer incurs much of a penalty to accuracy, and charging a tank into a group can actually help you protect it without completely removing its impact. Sure, multi-melta weaponry just doubled in shots, but it wasn't like they were pretty common for armies outside of Sororitas. Now they seem viable for all Imperial forces, with the caveat that you need to be danger close to maximize damage with them. CaptainMarsh 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5584717 Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePenitentOne Posted August 13, 2020 Author Share Posted August 13, 2020 Loving the 12 range on flamers. They can now be used for overwatch, and Trinity get a lot easier to use. This was great news. BTW: somebody on another thread said that heavy bolters are also becoming single shot. Does anyone know anything about that? Lemondish 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5584908 Share on other sites More sharing options...
tvih Posted August 13, 2020 Share Posted August 13, 2020 BTW: somebody on another thread said that heavy bolters are also becoming single shot. Does anyone know anything about that? This is based on the "leaked" Invictor warsuit instruction sheet. It either has to be a typo or alternatively the weapon the Invictor has will be renamed into something else. Considering all the other changes, it's inconceivable they'd nerf the HB to be Heavy 1, Damage 2. The WarCom article would've surely mentioned if the number of attacks would've dropped, too. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5584928 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montford Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 I will be fielding Multi Melta Immolators much more often now. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5585053 Share on other sites More sharing options...
toaae Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 (edited) BTW: somebody on another thread said that heavy bolters are also becoming single shot. Does anyone know anything about that? This is based on the "leaked" Invictor warsuit instruction sheet. It either has to be a typo or alternatively the weapon the Invictor has will be renamed into something else. Considering all the other changes, it's inconceivable they'd nerf the HB to be Heavy 1, Damage 2. The WarCom article would've surely mentioned if the number of attacks would've dropped, too. It's been reported that playtesters have said that's a typo. I'm very happy to see these changes! Retributors were the first unit I completed, and I'll be ecstatic to paint up more to field a truly devastating heavy support group. ------------------------------- =][= I merged the updated weapon stats topic with this one, because both had discussions about the weapon profiles. =][= Edited August 14, 2020 by toaae Lemondish 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5585074 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Montford Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 If the melta rules affect Infrno Pistols (and I expect they will) Seraphim are going to be so much more nastier. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5585311 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Banjulhu Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Other than maintaining the capacity of being able to 1 shot normal marines and getting a buff against primaris what other common units does the heavy bolter change help out against? Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5585482 Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandTHTG Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 I think it makes them a threat to transports again, especially against the eldar. 24+ potential damage can't be ignored. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5585528 Share on other sites More sharing options...
taikishi Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Not really. Each heavy bolter averages 0.667 unsaved damage against a T6 or T7 3+ vehicle -- which is most vehicles. A retributor squad will average 3 (really 4) damage at best. Will sim the damage later, when I'm not mobile, to give you a better idea of how bad heavy bolters are against vehicles. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5585539 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Atrus Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Glad these changes are coming to everyone that has them and probably their equivalents (tau fusion blasters one would assume would get the melta treatment). I'm looking at Karamazov and wondering if they looked at his triple barrel master crafted multi melta and decided to give him 3 shots or two. As someone who like to take that crazy old man, I hope 3. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5585640 Share on other sites More sharing options...
taikishi Posted August 14, 2020 Share Posted August 14, 2020 Found a little time. A unit of 4 Mortifiers all with heavy bolters have a 64% chance of dealing between 2.25 and 8.38 unsaved damage to T6-T9 vehicles with a 3+ save. Four Mortifiers are 240 points. A single Rhino is 78. The average 51% of the time you'll bracket a Rhino with 24 heavy bolter shots. ~27% of the time you'll cripple the Rhino. 12.3 of the time you'll destroy it. 240 points have a 1/8 chance of destroy a unit 1/3 its cost. If you're going to for heavy bolters at a transport, it should be Raiders. Even then, a unit of 3 Mortifiers only have a 30% chance of popping a Raider while a full unit pops a single Raider 58% of the time Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/364580-new-edition-and-us/page/5/#findComment-5585647 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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