New Rivals Novels post-Rift

[Moonreaper666]

Which new rivalries would you like to see in the post-Rift storyline?

 

Here are my ideas:

 

Eidolon vs Asterion Moloc. The Free Freak vs the Shackled Paranoiac

 

Lysander vs Honsou. Hothead with a Grudge vs Coolhead Mastermind

 

Marduk vs Uriel Ventriss. Ascended Zealot vs Renewed Paragon

 

Decimus vs Tyberos the Red Wake. New Prophet vs Shadow Berserker

 

Jain Zar vs Arha/Drazhar. Rising Demon vs Fallen Angel

 

Drastanta vs Telemachon Lyras. Saviour vs Doombringer

 

Doombreed vs Maugan Ra. Most powerful Daemon Prince/Daemon vs most powerful Phoenix Lord

[Roomsky]

There needs to be genuine stakes if you’re selling a premise based on two popular characters going head-to-head. With that in mind, I’d have no real interest in seeing something involving codex-established characters like Moloc or Tyberos, unless they were in the hands of an exceptionally skilled author. Slamming the setting’s action figures together is only going to take away what little grit those character have left, because they aren’t going to die.

 

That said I could go for Marduk vs Ventris. Preferably in the hands of someone besides Mcneill or Reynolds, with a suitably climactic end for one or both of them. Know no Fear is pretty great, I’d like for Abnett to write Know no Fear 2.

[Moonreaper666]

There needs to be genuine stakes if you’re selling a premise based on two popular characters going head-to-head. With that in mind, I’d have no real interest in seeing something involving codex-established characters like Moloc or Tyberos, unless they were in the hands of an exceptionally skilled author. Slamming the setting’s action figures together is only going to take away what little grit those character have left, because they aren’t going to die.

 

That said I could go for Marduk vs Ventris. Preferably in the hands of someone besides Mcneill or Reynolds, with a suitably climactic end for one or both of them. Know no Fear is pretty great, I’d like for Abnett to write Know no Fear 2.

Creed's friend had a model and rules and he died

 

There aren't that many important characters that don't have models

[Tarvek Val]

 

That said I could go for Marduk vs Ventris. Preferably in the hands of someone besides Mcneill or Reynolds, with a suitably climactic end for one or both of them. Know no Fear is pretty great, I’d like for Abnett to write Know no Fear 2.

 

This is the matchup that stuck out to me too on the list. I definitely would not want McNeill to write it. I've enjoyed most of his works (especially the majority of his HH novels), but the plot armor he gave Ventris was thicker than the Ultramarines omnibus...

Edited June 18, 2020 by Tarvek Val

[Petitioner's City]

 

There needs to be genuine stakes if you’re selling a premise based on two popular characters going head-to-head. With that in mind, I’d have no real interest in seeing something involving codex-established characters like Moloc or Tyberos, unless they were in the hands of an exceptionally skilled author. Slamming the setting’s action figures together is only going to take away what little grit those character have left, because they aren’t going to die.

 

That said I could go for Marduk vs Ventris. Preferably in the hands of someone besides Mcneill or Reynolds, with a suitably climactic end for one or both of them. Know no Fear is pretty great, I’d like for Abnett to write Know no Fear 2.

Creed's friend had a model and rules and he died

 

There aren't that many important characters that don't have models

 

 

Of course there are; it's just you are determining 'importance' it seems as  'appearing in a rulebook' or a very limited pool of novels versus anything else...

Edited June 18, 2020 by Petitioner's City

[Bobss]

Crowl Vs. Spinoza

[Lord_Caerolion]

We've already had Jain Zar v Drazhar, it was Rise of the Phoenix.

 

Also, since when was Moloc a paranoiac?

[DarkChaplain]

 

 

There needs to be genuine stakes if you’re selling a premise based on two popular characters going head-to-head. With that in mind, I’d have no real interest in seeing something involving codex-established characters like Moloc or Tyberos, unless they were in the hands of an exceptionally skilled author. Slamming the setting’s action figures together is only going to take away what little grit those character have left, because they aren’t going to die.

 

That said I could go for Marduk vs Ventris. Preferably in the hands of someone besides Mcneill or Reynolds, with a suitably climactic end for one or both of them. Know no Fear is pretty great, I’d like for Abnett to write Know no Fear 2.

Creed's friend had a model and rules and he died

 

There aren't that many important characters that don't have models

 

 

Of course there are; it's just you are determining 'importance' it seems as  'appearing in a rulebook' or a very limited pool of novels versus anything else...

 

 

It's what happens when you only have what, a half-dozen of novels to look back on, while taking the vast majority of your info from (badly) condensed, context-shred wiki entries, I suppose.

[Moonreaper666]

 

 

 

 

 

There needs to be genuine stakes if you’re selling a premise based on two popular characters going head-to-head. With that in mind, I’d have no real interest in seeing something involving codex-established characters like Moloc or Tyberos, unless they were in the hands of an exceptionally skilled author. Slamming the setting’s action figures together is only going to take away what little grit those character have left, because they aren’t going to die.

 

That said I could go for Marduk vs Ventris. Preferably in the hands of someone besides Mcneill or Reynolds, with a suitably climactic end for one or both of them. Know no Fear is pretty great, I’d like for Abnett to write Know no Fear 2.

Creed's friend had a model and rules and he died

 

There aren't that many important characters that don't have models

Of course there are; it's just you are determining 'importance' it seems as 'appearing in a rulebook' or a very limited pool of novels versus anything else...

It's what happens when you only have what, a half-dozen of novels to look back on, while taking the vast majority of your info from (badly) condensed, context-shred wiki entries, I suppose.

Do you have any suggestions?

[Sandlemad]

Not a rivalry as such but I wouldn't mind seeing a buddy cop style work featuring some of these characters. Jain Zar and Maugan Ra in a post-Ynnead world for example.

[Ingo Pech]

As there are mentioned some clashes between Iron Hands and Death Guard in the IH Codex Supplement and there is still the ongoing Iron Crusade against all forces of Chaos - and BL has published a nice IH vs DG-eshort (from Cameron Johnston) a while ago and I´m a huge fan of Chris Wraight´s "Lords of Silence" -  I would like to see those two forces battling in a full-novel.

 

I would prefer someone from Clan Sorrgoll as they are the Watchkeepers and the most nomadic and engaging of all clans.

 

Or a novel about the infiltration of Medusa (Medusa Raid) and a clash between Calas Typhon and Malkaan Feirros.

 

I think both legions/orders epitomize the most extrem spectrum of endurance - in flesh and steel - and would make such great counterparts with their conflicting beliefs and views.

 

 

Or the further elaboration of the smoldering conflict between Iron Hands and Imperial Fists after the Battle of Xaladin. Tor Garadon vs Malkaan Feirros. Would be fitting because both have new models (or their first one, correctly), both are mentioned and featured in their own Codex-supplements and they would surely deliver a quite good show together (or against each other).

 

And yeah, of course I know, that not one of those mentioned characters would die in the novel and perhaps that would reduce the suspense somewhat but for me it´s noth always about death and gore but about characterization and story-telling and I think that all of those ideas mentioned above would provide the opportunity to write a good story. Especially the IH vs IF-part because that would mean two loyal legions fight each other - for very different reasons. And for me that´s even more thrilling because the Fists have gone to aid of the IH several times in the past - at last during the 13th crusade and the Battle of Medusa...

Edited June 19, 2020 by Ingo Pech

[Xisor]

I'd happily take some more Czevak & Ahriman. 

 

Or perhaps some more about Fidus Kryptmann & the Hivemind.

 

And on a personal note, I really liked Guy Haley's take on the Ynnari in Valedor - I'd love to see that sprout some legs and get the Commorraghan strains of the Hivefleet out of the dysfunction and into trying to overturn an entire oncoming god.

 

That's the sort of rivalry I can get behind.

 

Less of this Space Marine B has another chance-but-fated-but-inconsequential encounter with that old fiend, Space Marine A! foolishness. 

 

Even less about those two-dozen siblings and their multi-millennia squabble about who can pee highest/longest.

[bluntblade]

I'm opposed to the notion of everyone having a feud. Firstly, it makes the setting feel smaller and neat in a way which isn't right for 40K. Second, it cheapens those feuds which do exist to make them just one more of a whole raft of personal rivalries.

[Lucerne]

 

 

That said I could go for Marduk vs Ventris. Preferably in the hands of someone besides Mcneill or Reynolds, with a suitably climactic end for one or both of them. Know no Fear is pretty great, I’d like for Abnett to write Know no Fear 2.

 

This is the matchup that stuck out to me too on the list. I definitely would not want McNeill to write it. I've enjoyed most of his works (especially the majority of his HH novels), but the plot armor he gave Ventris was thicker than the Ultramarines omnibus...

 

Snidley Whiplash vs Dudley Do Right?

 

Is there an option where they both die? :p

[Moonreaper666]

 

 

 

 

That said I could go for Marduk vs Ventris. Preferably in the hands of someone besides Mcneill or Reynolds, with a suitably climactic end for one or both of them. Know no Fear is pretty great, I’d like for Abnett to write Know no Fear 2.

This is the matchup that stuck out to me too on the list. I definitely would not want McNeill to write it. I've enjoyed most of his works (especially the majority of his HH novels), but the plot armor he gave Ventris was thicker than the Ultramarines omnibus...

Snidley Whiplash vs Dudley Do Right?

 

Is there an option where they both die? :p

Isn't that a Chaos victory since technically all of the Chaos Forces are expendable while the lost of a single Marine or Man can end the Imperium?

 

Doesn't help that Marduk can be revived and become a Daemon Prince

[DarkChaplain]

Only if he rolls a 6+ on an unmodified D6 and if the player bought the special stratagem for 3 Command Points before the game.

[Roomsky]

 

 

Snidley Whiplash vs Dudley Do Right?

 

Is there an option where they both die?

Isn't that a Chaos victory since technically all of the Chaos Forces are expendable while the lost of a single Marine or Man can end the Imperium?

 

Doesn't help that Marduk can be revived and become a Daemon Prince

 

 

If we're talking some ideal book I'd really like to see the setting move away from the idea that Chaos has infinite resources, and this is coming from someone for whom Chaos is one of their favourite factions. Sure, Chaos cares less about their marines, but they're a much hotter commodity than loyalists. Chaos repeatedly ranting about it's limitless resources isn't interesting at all and means stories generally don't have meaningful stakes, the winner becomes whoever the author wants them to be. Give me daemon armies with vulnerable artifacts and individuals that can cripple their numbers. Give me Chaos marines struggling to fight effectively because they're running out of antique bolt-shells. 

 

Daemon princedom doesn't necessarily need to be a positive for whomever they grant it to, either. Skraivok got 420^69 years of hell before whatever was wearing his skin re-entered the Materium. I'm generally referring to character death, "Marduk" can re-manifest if it likes, it won't be quite the same guy.

 

And my point about having actual stakes mostly applies to the BL habit of characters coming face-to-face on the battlefield, which I'd assume they'd use in most of the scenarios in the OP. If the author shows some restraint and keeps them on their ships I care less about both walking away from the confrontation. BL needs more ship focus anyway.

[Moonreaper666]

 

 

 

Snidley Whiplash vs Dudley Do Right?

 

Is there an option where they both die?

Isn't that a Chaos victory since technically all of the Chaos Forces are expendable while the lost of a single Marine or Man can end the Imperium?

 

Doesn't help that Marduk can be revived and become a Daemon Prince

If we're talking some ideal book I'd really like to see the setting move away from the idea that Chaos has infinite resources, and this is coming from someone for whom Chaos is one of their favourite factions. Sure, Chaos cares less about their marines, but they're a much hotter commodity than loyalists. Chaos repeatedly ranting about it's limitless resources isn't interesting at all and means stories generally don't have meaningful stakes, the winner becomes whoever the author wants them to be. Give me daemon armies with vulnerable artifacts and individuals that can cripple their numbers. Give me Chaos marines struggling to fight effectively because they're running out of antique bolt-shells.

 

Daemon princedom doesn't necessarily need to be a positive for whomever they grant it to, either. Skraivok got 420^69 years of hell before whatever was wearing his skin re-entered the Materium. I'm generally referring to character death, "Marduk" can re-manifest if it likes, it won't be quite the same guy.

 

And my point about having actual stakes mostly applies to the BL habit of characters coming face-to-face on the battlefield, which I'd assume they'd use in most of the scenarios in the OP. If the author shows some restraint and keeps them on their ships I care less about both walking away from the confrontation. BL needs more ship focus anyway.

Maybe the characters with models can die in these novels. Many models belong to peope dead in the lore. Maybe Honsou would kill Lysander and his company resulting in them being replace with Primaris?

 

(Lysander is lucky that he was captured by Shon'tu as he is delusional and not calculated. Had Honsou been the one who captured that hothead Lysander would be dead. Uriel did escape Honsou's prison but that is due to outside interference)

 

I just don't see many important Loyalist characters that don't have models. Ciaphas Cain is the only one I can think of and he is dead of old age

 

Maybe the

Last Chancers since the Great Rift sent them a 100 years to M42

[Tarvek Val]

 

Snidley Whiplash vs Dudley Do Right?

 

Is there an option where they both die? 

 

The Word Bearers omnibus was the first set of 40k books I ever read, so I have a bit of a soft spot for Marduk, the devious lil' rascal.   

 

That said, if Ventris got buried alive under a never-ending landslide of Matt Ward's codexes, I wouldn't shed a single tear. 

Edited June 20, 2020 by Tarvek Val

[Tarvek Val]

 

 

If we're talking some ideal book I'd really like to see the setting move away from the idea that Chaos has infinite resources, and this is coming from someone for whom Chaos is one of their favourite factions. Sure, Chaos cares less about their marines, but they're a much hotter commodity than loyalists. Chaos repeatedly ranting about it's limitless resources isn't interesting at all and means stories generally don't have meaningful stakes, the winner becomes whoever the author wants them to be. Give me daemon armies with vulnerable artifacts and individuals that can cripple their numbers. Give me Chaos marines struggling to fight effectively because they're running out of antique bolt-shells. 

 

This is precisely why the Night Lords trilogy is such a masterpiece. You get a brutal, poignant, and close-up view of a warband bleeding resources, Astartes, and munitions into the void. You see Chaos Marines looting the bodies of their fallen brother for weapons and armor pieces, and you get the POV of an antihero who is incredibly over the endless war he's become trapped in. ADB has written some of the most compelling antiheroes in the BL canon, and I would much rather see the psyches and shortcomings of the various 40k factions explored in depth than have a "this versus that" character clash. That's not to see that a novel pitting two iconic characters against each other can't be dynamic, engaging, and rewarding in its own way, but like others have said, knowing that neither main character can die puts serious limits on the piece's potential. 

[Lucerne]

 

 

 

Snidley Whiplash vs Dudley Do Right?

 

Is there an option where they both die?

Isn't that a Chaos victory since technically all of the Chaos Forces are expendable while the lost of a single Marine or Man can end the Imperium?

 

Doesn't help that Marduk can be revived and become a Daemon Prince

 

 

If we're talking some ideal book I'd really like to see the setting move away from the idea that Chaos has infinite resources, and this is coming from someone for whom Chaos is one of their favourite factions. Sure, Chaos cares less about their marines, but they're a much hotter commodity than loyalists. Chaos repeatedly ranting about it's limitless resources isn't interesting at all and means stories generally don't have meaningful stakes, the winner becomes whoever the author wants them to be. Give me daemon armies with vulnerable artifacts and individuals that can cripple their numbers. Give me Chaos marines struggling to fight effectively because they're running out of antique bolt-shells. 

 

Daemon princedom doesn't necessarily need to be a positive for whomever they grant it to, either. Skraivok got 420^69 years of hell before whatever was wearing his skin re-entered the Materium. I'm generally referring to character death, "Marduk" can re-manifest if it likes, it won't be quite the same guy.

 

And my point about having actual stakes mostly applies to the BL habit of characters coming face-to-face on the battlefield, which I'd assume they'd use in most of the scenarios in the OP. If the author shows some restraint and keeps them on their ships I care less about both walking away from the confrontation. BL needs more ship focus anyway.

 

Chaos having unlimited resources is a much more interesting option than "Chaos has nothing, they're all useless raiders, they didn't get anything meaningful other than useless dinobots for using the Warp, and all their gear is now broken". Chaos should be about power at a price, but treat them like the Nazgul. Sure, they're lessened in a lot of ways and enslaved, but they're still terrifying and the forces of Sauron have their own, even arguably superior infrastructure.

 

Give me Chaos supply lines and fortresses and pocket empires carved out of Imperium Nihlus. Have them use warp powers to supplement their armaments and have it be more effective. We're supposed to believe Chaos's power is tempting beyond reason, but there's no real sign that's the case. What profits a man to sell his soul if he doesn't even get the world for it?

 

Incidentally, I'm talking Chaos as a whole. There's plenty of room for renegades (who may well scorn the Warp and therefore don't benefit from its gifts nearly as much) and unlucky fodder- for every success story like the Legions, there can be a lot of warbands that were devoured or failed or just didn't get lucky...But there need to be those success stories. Show how the Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, Black Legion, etc etc are objectively scarier now than they ever were as loyalists/ during the Heresy.

Edited June 20, 2020 by Lucerne

[Moonreaper666]

 

 

 

 

 

Snidley Whiplash vs Dudley Do Right?

 

Is there an option where they both die?

Isn't that a Chaos victory since technically all of the Chaos Forces are expendable while the lost of a single Marine or Man can end the Imperium?

 

Doesn't help that Marduk can be revived and become a Daemon Prince

If we're talking some ideal book I'd really like to see the setting move away from the idea that Chaos has infinite resources, and this is coming from someone for whom Chaos is one of their favourite factions. Sure, Chaos cares less about their marines, but they're a much hotter commodity than loyalists. Chaos repeatedly ranting about it's limitless resources isn't interesting at all and means stories generally don't have meaningful stakes, the winner becomes whoever the author wants them to be. Give me daemon armies with vulnerable artifacts and individuals that can cripple their numbers. Give me Chaos marines struggling to fight effectively because they're running out of antique bolt-shells.

 

Daemon princedom doesn't necessarily need to be a positive for whomever they grant it to, either. Skraivok got 420^69 years of hell before whatever was wearing his skin re-entered the Materium. I'm generally referring to character death, "Marduk" can re-manifest if it likes, it won't be quite the same guy.

 

And my point about having actual stakes mostly applies to the BL habit of characters coming face-to-face on the battlefield, which I'd assume they'd use in most of the scenarios in the OP. If the author shows some restraint and keeps them on their ships I care less about both walking away from the confrontation. BL needs more ship focus anyway.

Chaos having unlimited resources is a much more interesting option than "Chaos has nothing, they're all useless raiders, they didn't get anything meaningful other than useless dinobots for using the Warp, and all their gear is now broken". Chaos should be about power at a price, but treat them like the Nazgul. Sure, they're lessened in a lot of ways and enslaved, but they're still terrifying and the forces of Sauron have their own, even arguably superior infrastructure.

 

Give me Chaos supply lines and fortresses and pocket empires carved out of Imperium Nihlus. Have them use warp powers to supplement their armaments and have it be more effective. We're supposed to believe Chaos's power is tempting beyond reason, but there's no real sign that's the case. What profits a man to sell his soul if he doesn't even get the world for it?

 

Incidentally, I'm talking Chaos as a whole. There's plenty of room for renegades (who may well scorn the Warp and therefore don't benefit from its gifts nearly as much) and unlucky fodder- for every success story like the Legions, there can be a lot of warbands that were devoured or failed or just didn't get lucky...But there need to be those success stories. Show how the Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, Black Legion, etc etc are objectively scarier now than they ever were as loyalists/ during the Heresy.

The Chaos Gods and their most favoured servants have unlimited power and forces, to be specific. The regular Chaos Marine or Cultist is not so lucky.

 

Even with Primaris there are less than a million Loyalist Marines in M42. The Traitor Legions alone have a few million Chaos Astartes while the Renegades have another few million

 

The Black Legion should have a warband that is a twisted mockery of the Grey Knights, the Black Knights. The BKs are more numerous and more powerful than the GK but takes longer to make more of them. They only obey orders directly from Abaddon

 

I think there should be a lot of new named Chaos Champions in M42 to challenge the Old Veterans and to be the biggest challenge Loyalist special characters would face

[cheywood]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Snidley Whiplash vs Dudley Do Right?

 

Is there an option where they both die?

Isn't that a Chaos victory since technically all of the Chaos Forces are expendable while the lost of a single Marine or Man can end the Imperium?

 

Doesn't help that Marduk can be revived and become a Daemon Prince

If we're talking some ideal book I'd really like to see the setting move away from the idea that Chaos has infinite resources, and this is coming from someone for whom Chaos is one of their favourite factions. Sure, Chaos cares less about their marines, but they're a much hotter commodity than loyalists. Chaos repeatedly ranting about it's limitless resources isn't interesting at all and means stories generally don't have meaningful stakes, the winner becomes whoever the author wants them to be. Give me daemon armies with vulnerable artifacts and individuals that can cripple their numbers. Give me Chaos marines struggling to fight effectively because they're running out of antique bolt-shells.

 

Daemon princedom doesn't necessarily need to be a positive for whomever they grant it to, either. Skraivok got 420^69 years of hell before whatever was wearing his skin re-entered the Materium. I'm generally referring to character death, "Marduk" can re-manifest if it likes, it won't be quite the same guy.

 

And my point about having actual stakes mostly applies to the BL habit of characters coming face-to-face on the battlefield, which I'd assume they'd use in most of the scenarios in the OP. If the author shows some restraint and keeps them on their ships I care less about both walking away from the confrontation. BL needs more ship focus anyway.

Chaos having unlimited resources is a much more interesting option than "Chaos has nothing, they're all useless raiders, they didn't get anything meaningful other than useless dinobots for using the Warp, and all their gear is now broken". Chaos should be about power at a price, but treat them like the Nazgul. Sure, they're lessened in a lot of ways and enslaved, but they're still terrifying and the forces of Sauron have their own, even arguably superior infrastructure.

 

Give me Chaos supply lines and fortresses and pocket empires carved out of Imperium Nihlus. Have them use warp powers to supplement their armaments and have it be more effective. We're supposed to believe Chaos's power is tempting beyond reason, but there's no real sign that's the case. What profits a man to sell his soul if he doesn't even get the world for it?

 

Incidentally, I'm talking Chaos as a whole. There's plenty of room for renegades (who may well scorn the Warp and therefore don't benefit from its gifts nearly as much) and unlucky fodder- for every success story like the Legions, there can be a lot of warbands that were devoured or failed or just didn't get lucky...But there need to be those success stories. Show how the Iron Warriors, Word Bearers, Black Legion, etc etc are objectively scarier now than they ever were as loyalists/ during the Heresy.

The Chaos Gods and their most favoured servants have unlimited power and forces, to be specific. The regular Chaos Marine or Cultist is not so lucky.

 

Even with Primaris there are less than a million Loyalist Marines in M42. The Traitor Legions alone have a few million Chaos Astartes while the Renegades have another few million

 

The Black Legion should have a warband that is a twisted mockery of the Grey Knights, the Black Knights. The BKs are more numerous and more powerful than the GK but takes longer to make more of them. They only obey orders directly from Abaddon

 

I think there should be a lot of new named Chaos Champions in M42 to challenge the Old Veterans and to be the biggest challenge Loyalist special characters would face

Where are you getting these numbers?

[Rob P]

Vect steals the planet of the sorcerers starting a rivalry with TSons

 

Alpha legion recruit genestealer cult stock starting yet another rivalry with themselves

 

Ad Mech and Tau shenanigans when both try and recruit a demiurg clan with juicy tech into the fold

 

Leman Russ returns and hunts for new STC worthy of bearing his name (okay, joke).

 

Space Sharks and Minotaurs find out each others secrets and then go to war claiming the other is a heretic. The Marines Malevolent turn up for laughs with Salamanders in pursuit.

[Bobss]

Vect steals the planet of the sorcerers starting a rivalry with TSons

 

Alpha legion recruit genestealer cult stock starting yet another rivalry with themselves

 

Ad Mech and Tau shenanigans when both try and recruit a demiurg clan with juicy tech into the fold

 

Leman Russ returns and hunts for new STC worthy of bearing his name (okay, joke).

 

Space Sharks and Minotaurs find out each others secrets and then go to war claiming the other is a heretic. The Marines Malevolent turn up for laughs with Salamanders in pursuit.

 

These all sound hilariously brilliant, like Josh Reynolds' rejected pitches

 

So basically they're never gonna happen