Awaken my quivering abs!

[Sete]

So with 9th on the horizon I am planning to start with custodes, Allarus custodians no less, but since I have not played since 7th I'm a bit rusty on the rules, so I will also use this thread for advice while I plan my list and showcase my W.I.P.

 

I'm currently working on Scions to ally to the Custodes, but I assume that tagging them along I will lose the Custodes mono faction ability which is the improved invulnerable save?

 

I haven't followed all the announcements up to 9th but "soup" is being nerfed?

What does that mean for Custodes, which traditionally always got cheap allies for bodies?

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

First we must answer: what was and why was soup even used for Custodes.

 

During all of 8th a new powerful tool was locked behind force organization: Stratagems

 

These stratagems could be utterly game changing. From re-rolling a single dice roll over phase to make a charge, to blocking charges through unique ones like tanglefoot grenade.

 

Then came the drawback the way to get command points for using said Stratagems: building an army by maxing the number of force orgs you take

With the more battalions the better essentially the name of the game to get access to maximum cp.

 

Each force org was ideally composed of one faction to preserve it's unique abilities (for Custodes that was our better invul save). But for elite armies, making a batallion was expensive, it requires 3 troops And 2 hqs. Not cheap for armies like Custodes. This is where soup came in.

 

For literally a couple hundred points or less you could buy a battalions from another faction: like guard. The loyal 32 (the cheapest battalion) was born.

 

With what has been leaked for 8th: everyone starts with the same amount of command points per battle size.

 

BUT. You must pay command points to bring force organizations. With there being certain benefit to the different orgs (all but battalions are unknown). Battalion cost 3 points of command but if your warlord is in it he refunds all those points! You can start with 13 command points with one battalion!

 

How this changes allies and getting cheap troops bodies and command points: buying force orgs even for your own force outside of the battalion with your warlord in it will reduce and not increase your command points.

 

 

We don't know by how much yet. Maybe it will be a straight cost (e.g a second battalion for Custodes that is composed of all scions may cost 3 points putting you at 10). Maybe it will be more like a tax for adding allies. We don't yet know.

 

 

What is good for Custodes: for those who play pure talons (Custodes and SoS) we can build one batallion with EASE containing all our points and never worry about adding in more force organizations. We get the maximum command points possible with one batallion.

 

What's bad: we, unlike nearly all other armies, lose access to any form of cheap troops for scoring objectives. Now while custodes have rules for holding objectives better with any infantry, we will Almost always be out numbered meaning we lose objective tug-a-wars.

 

What's good about what we know 9th: new line of sight and types of terrain can make our backline campers very safe in low numbers (we also scoff at our opponents new blast weapons we almost never have squad sizes over 5 let alone 10).

 

 

What's bad about our multiple small units: units typically only need to drop 1 to 3 custodes to drop to less than 3 men strong. Leaving our hqs exposed. We don't know if any tweaks to units like wardens or guard squads with shields will keep our shield captains safer.

 

We do know that a jetbike captain with a few upgrades from war of the spider becomes almost unkillable by normal means. Plus it takes no small amount of shots to bring down a shield captain in almost any case so this might be a lower concern. We are going to be reaching opponents with shooting and cc easier with Los blocking terrain and teleporting things in their face to be overly worried about a shield captain that isn't a huge threat outside of cc.

 

 

A bit more in depth than you were probably looking for when asking about soup but yeah that's what we have so far to work with.

Edited June 19, 2020 by Hellex_The_Thanatar

[Wrath of Bruinen]

As the rule currently stands, the improved invulnerable save applies when a detachment is made of pure custodes (ie you’ll always get it in a battleforged army). This is different to the astartes combat doctrines or sisters of battle where the whole army has to have the rule in order for it to apply (with limited exceptions like a single inquisitor, or an assassin post-War of the Spider).

So for now you can happily soup and still get the 4++, although whether that position changes in the next batch of codexes only time will tell.

As Hellex says, there’s also potentially a bunch of CP implications from 9th

[Sete]

Cheers for the replies.

I assume mixing detachments will make you lose the limited cp on 9th, but well it's a price to pay for flexibility.

[Noserenda]

For Cheap bodies you can use Sisters of Silence as of War of the Spider, less special weapons more psyker defence. 

I guess itll all come down to how much CP allies cost though.

[Sete]

I'm being practical with a few Scion boxes I have on my pile of shame ;)

 

But yes sisters will be added as I expand the army.

 

I think I have some sisters around need to dig through some stuff.

 

No word on Aleya and Valerian rules?

Edited June 20, 2020 by Sete

[Noserenda]

 

No word on Aleya and Valerian rules?

Good stuff :D No sign of updates to them yet, i think at this point we will be waiting for the new edition mahoosive FAQ i guess :/  

[Maouw]

Regarding 9th, im especially worried about one thing : map control.

I express my concern few times now but without 9th feedback its gonna be only supposition i guess

 

If in 9th going for killing is less powerfull than playing objective, then that mean we gonna neep troops. But how much troops ? And regular custodians or sisters of silence ? Im disapointed SoS didn't get better rules so far, that mean custodes get some really nice tools but SoS stay sadly weak and they take some elites slots too.

 

That said, as i am not a pro player, i still hope the killer tools we got now allow us to destroy faster ennemies and take the board over a huge pile of corpse. If heavy shooting list are not able anymore to oblterate us and we could play undercover and still win, im ok with this, but so far i see more discussion about : how now custodes are gonna destroy everything instead of how are custodes gonna control the map now. And since i have issue controling a map with my death guard and unit of pox/cultists, im worried i will be totally overwhelmed as custodes. So maybe SoS gonna be my low cost objective older but in that case, i lost elite slot for more nasty stuff and i lost too the psychic shield they could offer to my troops.

 

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

 

Regarding 9th, im especially worried about one thing : map control.

I express my concern few times now but without 9th feedback its gonna be only supposition i guess

 

If in 9th going for killing is less powerfull than playing objective, then that mean we gonna neep troops. But how much troops ? And regular custodians or sisters of silence ? Im disapointed SoS didn't get better rules so far, that mean custodes get some really nice tools but SoS stay sadly weak and they take some elites slots too.

 

That said, as i am not a pro player, i still hope the killer tools we got now allow us to destroy faster ennemies and take the board over a huge pile of corpse. If heavy shooting list are not able anymore to oblterate us and we could play undercover and still win, im ok with this, but so far i see more discussion about : how now custodes are gonna destroy everything instead of how are custodes gonna control the map now. And since i have issue controling a map with my death guard and unit of pox/cultists, im worried i will be totally overwhelmed as custodes. So maybe SoS gonna be my low cost objective older but in that case, i lost elite slot for more nasty stuff and i lost too the psychic shield they could offer to my troops.

 

 

 

So the ironic thing here is... tourney results from custodes players showed we do better at controlling the board than killing and being killed. Pretty sure some of the last big results came out if an almost entirely guardians with sword boards. The opponents couldn't kill us quick enough and we stuck hard to objectives.

 

 

Is it fun to be the survive and endure army? Nope. But that's a solid way to win.

[Maouw]

 

So the ironic thing here is... tourney results from custodes players showed we do better at controlling the board than killing and being killed. Pretty sure some of the last big results came out if an almost entirely guardians with sword boards. The opponents couldn't kill us quick enough and we stuck hard to objectives.

 

Is it fun to be the survive and endure army? Nope. But that's a solid way to win.

O really ? That..unexpected...So few guards with shields to hold objective when a warden bomb or a allarus bomb and a telemon go rampage somewhere else could have serious chance of winning ? That kinda make me happy ^^

[Hellex_The_Thanatar]

It would be unsurprising if that is not a viable strategy in 9th. I really wish the telemon had more attacks. Dreads in general I wish could do like a sweep at some base strength and possibly hitting every model within range.

 

I can dream.

 

9th will be all about clearing screens protecting the juicy units now especially that we can only succeed in a charge if we can reach all units we declared the charge against. Hmm.

[Sete]

God dammit 8 days waiting for my Allarus! What the hell royal mail!

[eternal_warrior12]

Just built 3 and painted one of my Allarus. Absolutely love the models and load outs. Can’t wait to get them on the table. Edited July 12, 2020 by eternal_warrior12