Faction Focus: Craftworlds

[Brother Tyler]

Warhammer Community post

 

[Prot]

Just to add my own original response:

I have to agree not much is exposed here. Although the formal acknowledgement of the Night Spinner being "Blast" type is good stuff. 

 

Eldar are an army I struggle to play competitively with and usually that's because I tend to hang out in the area of the codex with the least played units (usually a lot of "Wraith" stuff). So I am cautiously optimistic that some of the 9th edition rules inherently help some of these lesser used units.

 

Right off the bat I can say the Eldar troops are fairly mediocre and personally I had trouble getting CP's in my lists as a result. So the inherent function of CP's in 9th as mentioned in the article is a great plus for me.

 

 

I'm actually very excited for this. I have been considering a break from all my CSM armies and Eldar were a real struggle for me in 8th. 

[Dulahan]

I just really hope the fact this could well be the least revealing preview of all is because there's some sweeping changes on the horizon they don't want to reveal. 

[Wulf Vengis]

As a "new" elder player coming in essentially blind as I'm last familiar with the 5th Edition Codex and just some skimming through the 8th i have to say I'm looking forward to seeing where they're going in 9th.

 

EDIT: That Warcom thing was even less than more than unhelpful...

Edited July 2, 2020 by Wulf Vengis

[Karhedron]

Flyers losing the ability to shoot after withdrawing from combat is going to hurt. We will have to be more careful screening our skimmers going forwards. On the other hand, the ability of things to fire in melee makes Wraithlords look a bit tastier.

[Prot]

Some really tough stuff I realized as I'm list building for 9th:

 

- By far my most used category was Heavy. It's going to be really hard to get it all in there without losing substantial CP.

- Ynnari is going to be really hard to make work now.

- I don't know what exactly has the supreme command trait but using the detachment is going to be a must, but it may still be awkward as heck.

- Losing fly abilities, as mentioned is going to be tough. 

 

I see we'll need more boots on the ground than perhaps any previous edition. 

 

Biggest problem: My favourite model in the line... the Wraithknight has no place. It's incredibly hard to get him into a conventional list now. 3 or zero. Bleh. I hope there's more to this that I'm just not seeing. Titanic units overall took a hit for scoring. They're in a tough place for sure.

[Dulahan]

Ynnari seem to have been shelved by the company entirely.  Allegedly 3 years or so from conception to new... and it's been over 3 years now.  Nothing.  All we've gotten is (Admittedly needed) Nerfs that went too far and fundamentally killed any reason to play them.  (In part because the initial nerf to soup - needed for different reasons - didn't solve the fundamental issue of Ynnari from the silly Act Twice ability.  But finally fixing that left them in trouble when they should've gotten back easier soup abilities)

 

Not sure how I'll go either, honestly.  My typical force has generally had 3 Heavies for sure - since I just need the tank firepower.  LOTS of elites, and a decent amount of HQ. 

 

Probably my most common was something like:

 

Autarch

Farseer Skyrunner

Warlock x2

Possibly a Phoenix Lord or Avatar

 

3-4 Dire Avenger squads, 1 Guardian Bomb  /  OR a solid core of Rangers

 

Beyond that just lots of Aspect Warriors or Wraith Guard.  Some Tanks.  The Crimson Hunter Exarch.  And generally 10 Bikes with Shurcannons. 

 

Honestly, really wanting to see point values, and even more than that, some nature of preview on if our weapon stats will change any (HAHA!  I made myself laugh, then cry).  But I doubt my lists will change much other than hopefully making Aspects a little less of a trap to take.  I love Swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders, and Howling Banshees, but almost always feel like I've wasted the slot and points, and made my matchup lots harder just for taking them in most matches.   If Guardians are suddenly not a worthless suicide unit I might consider more there too.  But yeah, since I'm almost positive they won't raise Shurcats to 18" or more, I doubt they'll be worth it - especially with the way hordes are more vulnerable now.  (And meanwhile, I'll continue to be annoyed a darned Inquisitor has a better shurcat than a Phoenix Lord).

 

Otherwise, given my list was usually a Battalion, Heavy Detachment, and either Fast Attack or Elite one?  I'll at least be able to fill out the basic Battalion and get more CP than before.

[Karhedron]

- By far my most used category was Heavy. It's going to be really hard to get it all in there without losing substantial CP.

If you can survive with just 2 HQs then taking a Spearhead detachment is an option as it gives you 3-6 Heavy slots. Here is a summary:

 

1-2 HQs

0-3 Troops

3-6 Heavy

0-2 Elite

0-2 Fast attack

0-2 Flyers

 

If you want to field a list with plenty of Grav tanks, Wraithlords and Reapers, this looks viable.

 

Or you just take a Battalion + Patrol detachment for 2CPs and 1 Troop, +1 HQ get plenty of extra slots to fill. I was typically running Battalion + Spearhead previously which gave a starting total of 9 CPs. Now I can take a very similar list as Batallion + Patrol (OK I need 1 extra Troop) and get 10CPs. Or I can ditch a Spiritseer and run exactly the same list but with 12CPs! Not too shabby.

 

I think that we will need to optimise our lists somewhat for 9th edition but nowhere near as much as we had to change them at the start of 8th unless we wish to run Wraithknights (which are a problem).

[Prot]

I think right now with the army I have been playing I would say my biggest problem going into 9th is:

 

- Heavy Slots. Things like night spinner (?) tanks, Grav Falcons, Wraiths, Reapers, and the artillery units all fit in the same category and I can't make it fit now.

 

- HQ's to support the above. Personally after playing Eldar a lot more in 8th than I have in several editions I have to say I honestly believe many of the Eldar Units are sub par, and it is the psychic phase that rescues some of these units. (Chaos Space Marines have a similar dilemma now.)

 

I agree about Ynarri. They feel completely and utterly thrown under the bus now. I worked so hard on my Triumvirate box stuff, and I literally can't get it to work now without severely compromising the list.

 

I also agree about the Battalion. I think it's the go to for most armies now. Especially if you MUST have 3 HQ's (I can live without 3 troop slots easily and do better without them.) 

 

One good thing I've come to realize is the flyers. While nothing with fly can get away from assault and still shoot, at least our higher priced flyers can shoot without penalty. 

 

One thing that has completely shocked me is the difficult I'm having with the new Coherency rules in 6+ man units. Wow. I haven't tried my foot based Wraith list, but if you can only take (for example) 6 models in a unit, just don't do it. 

 

I actually find it nearly crippling of expensive units that are over 5 men big. I've played my Chaos Possessed list in 9th and it's shown me just how hard it is to keep a model in some sort of Aura range, make sure the ends have a "Y" component to them, AND take Morale failures / shooting fatalities into account.

 

Someone correct me, but I think it's after Moral you make the 'coherency check'. And you gotta have every model within 2" of another model or you start plucking models off the table until this unit is coherent.  I find this exceptionally penal for an assault unit.

[The Yncarne]

Prot, have you considered adding some harlequins? I think that’s where I’m going in ninth after my dream of dark eldar and harlequins have been changed with the CP structure. if only I hadn’t left my fine cast rangers in a hot car for an hour, I’d look at craft worlds a little more. 

[Karhedron]

How about Spearhead + Patrol? That gives you 10CPs and the following slots:

 

2-4 HQs

1-6 Troops

3-8 Heavy

0-4 Fast

0-4 Elite

0-4 Aircraft

 

Add in an Autarch to recycle CPs and the fact that we get an extra CP at the start of each turn means we are not in a bad position.

[Prot]

How about Spearhead + Patrol? That gives you 10CPs and the following slots:

 

2-4 HQs

1-6 Troops

3-8 Heavy

0-4 Fast

0-4 Elite

0-4 Aircraft

 

Add in an Autarch to recycle CPs and the fact that we get an extra CP at the start of each turn means we are not in a bad position.

 

Yes, that's the conclusion I slowly came to. No way around it. What I do like about the above is the ability to take 0-4 Aircraft.

 

I want to include the aircraft just to start harassing Characters.

 

I have a base list I may post up and just throw in my ongoing thread.... back to Wraiths. :)

[Karhedron]

I am beginning to worry about Eldar's viability in 9th. We seem to lose more than we gain from many of the changes. Also, the missions previewed thus far seem to emphasise the importance of durable Infantry with ObjSec to hold objectives rather than killing the enemy.

 

I think that we may well need to hide our Troops in transports until quite late in the game before hopping out to snag objectives. Keeping our fragile Troops alive for scoring could present problems. Of course we can use our more durable units but then we risk being out-scored by a single Space Marine Scout with ObjSec unless we can be sure we wipe nearby units.

[Dulahan]

Yeah, the takeaway from the article pretty much is nothing is really changing for Craftworlds this edition, at least not yet.  And likely the 'dex will be out there quite a few months at the earliest.  So I'm not going to hold my breath on any meaningful changes.

 

My only one minor wondering is if the new Inquisitor's "Better than a Phoenix Lord's or Exarchs' Shurcat" might at least be a sign of something like 18" OR 2 damage becoming Shurcat standard.  But I'm not holding my breath.

[Prot]

Agreed. Killing isn't even close to as important in 9th as real estate control. 

 

Being honest there are some critical negatives rearing their head for Eldar:

 

- Restricted heavy slots (arguably our best overall performers)

 

- Restricted HQ's (my believe that they hold up the medicore sections of the codex)

 

- Real estate/Objective holding is not one of the Eldar strong points, but pretty mandatory in 9th.

 

- Psychic phase has been turned down: - All powers must be cast on each character. - Can't retreat and cast. - Tough to overlap psychic coverage with limited HQ's. - Eldar are generally weaker characters, and Character targeting will be much more effective in 9th.

 

- Fly has been turned down for shooting purposes

 

There is some good news:

- I was one of very few people here using Wraiths. Now they actually may be important

 

- There's 'hope' (albeit slim) for those 10 Banshees I've been slowly working on.

 

Personally I play my other armies a lot more. So while it doesn't crush me that this isn't looking good for Eldar, it's more for the 'faction' that I feel bad for. I could be very wrong of course, but to be honest they aren't looking that interesting to play right now. Fragile, speedy units that don't hold well have just lost their ability to escape entrapment and hit back via Fly AND psychics. 

 

This could just be a huge playstyle adjustment? I mean from what I've seen from 'playtesters' they certainly have not figured it out yet, but it's early.

[Mordas]

I can certainly see the wraith units becoming increasingly used, personally I am looking to get another wave serpent and start to plan around serpent and wraith lists. Use the serpents as a shield to hold onto the objective and if they go down use the chaps inside to fall back onto the objective so its scored next turn.

 

The primary points seem key in these missions that I have seen played on Youtube battle reports if you are not holding 2 every turn you are quickly just outscored for the rest of the game and on a back foot.

 

Still think my Wraith knight is going to be the centrepiece on the shelf display for another edition though, cannot see any reason to bring one with the current rules/points (don't see those going down either!)

 

Also thinking war walkers are going to be fun to run, bring them in a squad and they can move and shoot nicely now, that 5+ invulnerable save means they might survive a bit longer too!

[BitsHammer]

Ynnari seem to have been shelved by the company entirely.  Allegedly 3 years or so from conception to new... and it's been over 3 years now.  Nothing.  All we've gotten is (Admittedly needed) Nerfs that went too far and fundamentally killed any reason to play them.  (In part because the initial nerf to soup - needed for different reasons - didn't solve the fundamental issue of Ynnari from the silly Act Twice ability.  But finally fixing that left them in trouble when they should've gotten back easier soup abilities)

 

Not sure how I'll go either, honestly.  My typical force has generally had 3 Heavies for sure - since I just need the tank firepower.  LOTS of elites, and a decent amount of HQ. 

 

Probably my most common was something like:

 

Autarch

Farseer Skyrunner

Warlock x2

Possibly a Phoenix Lord or Avatar

 

3-4 Dire Avenger squads, 1 Guardian Bomb  /  OR a solid core of Rangers

 

Beyond that just lots of Aspect Warriors or Wraith Guard.  Some Tanks.  The Crimson Hunter Exarch.  And generally 10 Bikes with Shurcannons. 

 

Honestly, really wanting to see point values, and even more than that, some nature of preview on if our weapon stats will change any (HAHA!  I made myself laugh, then cry).  But I doubt my lists will change much other than hopefully making Aspects a little less of a trap to take.  I love Swooping Hawks, Warp Spiders, and Howling Banshees, but almost always feel like I've wasted the slot and points, and made my matchup lots harder just for taking them in most matches.   If Guardians are suddenly not a worthless suicide unit I might consider more there too.  But yeah, since I'm almost positive they won't raise Shurcats to 18" or more, I doubt they'll be worth it - especially with the way hordes are more vulnerable now.  (And meanwhile, I'll continue to be annoyed a darned Inquisitor has a better shurcat than a Phoenix Lord).

 

Otherwise, given my list was usually a Battalion, Heavy Detachment, and either Fast Attack or Elite one?  I'll at least be able to fill out the basic Battalion and get more CP than before.

At this point I feel like Ynnari are likely getting a complete rework internally to make them a stand alone Eldar book that likely contains datasheets from all three factions in a single codex so they can have better internal balance on how it all combos together.

[BitsHammer]

So some folks might find this information from playtesters a bit more enlightening:

 
And a batrep with the army vs Custodes:

 

EDIT: I'd also like to remind everyone that we also have a Day One FAQ set coming out sometimes in the near future that'll be important to all of our armies as well. It might help smooth things over, we'll see.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Fulkes

[DarkPhoenix]

Thanks for sharing, Fulkes.

[BitsHammer]

Thanks for sharing, Fulkes.

Happy to help! I've been trying to get a feel for the new edition as I finally decided to start Iyanden so I've been trying to find stuff on how people feel Eldar could be played but it's been slim pickings. Mechdar seem to be a favorite build style though.

[Dulahan]

Sigh, that run down pretty much confirmed my worries.  No sign at all GW is even thinking of changing anything with Eldar.

 

"One of your best ways to win is a Suicide Squad!"  No wonder they're a dying race.  :(

 

No sign of the majority of Aspects having any improvements.  I love the lore of Eldar, but the fact we don't seem to be any closer to ever seeing the sort of theme and play I fell in love with has me seriously considering just given them up.

[BitsHammer]

Being able to win despite being tabled may help a lot of struggling books, but it's hopefully just a stop gap until we see a proper update later this edition.

 

Until we see plastics it's not likely that Aspects will see a major shift on way or the other.

[Dread]

I really want haywire grenades back for scorpions. That would fix them. Other squads in our book could use some love for sure but overall, it's a least playable.

[Mordas]

I still have all my old metal aspects, stripped and ready to paint just never needed them no matter how much I wanted to bring them :(

[BitsHammer]

Goonhammer gave us some coverage: https://www.goonhammer.com/9th-edition-faction-focus-craftworld-eldar/

 

So my own thoughts: 9th edition, at launch, is the edition of lowered expectations. A lot of stuff that was good looks like it got a knee in the soul stones, and things that were bad got taken out behind the shed.

 

I'm not too mad about the latter because not even points changes where going to save the latter. The former just feels like trying to nerf the entire game equally.