New to the hobby questions

[Lukoi]

Hi all. Apologies if this answer is somewhere but I've yet to find it in the tutorials section etc.

 

I have been watching some videos on step hy step painting to help me overcome my horrible lack of talent in this department.

 

I am building my 2k list and would like to make my next batch to pop (the first batch is serviceable but not nearly so cool looking as most of yalls stuff).

 

First....it was recommended to me use gloss varnish and then matte varnish as a way to protect the paint jobs, but on the handful I've completed, they are still noticeably shiny! Do I need to do multiple layers of matte varnish here to deaden the effect? Could I just go with matte in general and still have a relatively resilient paint job?

 

Secondly, I am painting my space marine forces in Vallejos dark grey blue color. What should I shade it with to get the panels and details to pop out, or more distinct like I see in all of the model work here.

 

Seems like folks tend toward lighter colored armies, and go with a dark color for the shading, but dark grey blue is already fairly dark. Any recommendations?

 

Thanks all!

Edited June 23, 2020 by Lukoi

[Lovecraft0110]

Hey, Lukoi, I will give you one possible way to do this. Not the only way, by any means, but I have been teaching kids how to paint minis since '08, so I know what works for beginners and what doesn't.

 

 

First of all, forget that idea about "talent". I totally sucked at this when I started. Like...really badly. Some people will need less practice, others, like me, will need a lot. That's it.

 

Now, I would recommend:

 

1. Ditch the gloss varnish step.

2. Get Army Painter Dark quickshade (bottled).

3. Learn how to do drybrushing (if you don't already know) and apply it only to the edges of the armor panels and to protruding details. Alternatively, try edge highlighting, but I would recommend mastering drybrushing first.

4. Apply drybrushing, then the quickshade.

5. Apply matt varnish.

6. Enjoy.

 

Hope this helps!

[Tyberos the Red Wake]

The reason your models are still shiny is because you gave it a good coat of gloss, but you missed a lot of spots with the matte. You probably were able to cover most of the model with gloss because it was very easy to see, but when you went to use matte, it's a lot harder to see where you applied the varnish, especially when you have the previous gloss layer distracting your eyes. You can skip the gloss step if you want, but make sure when you apply the matte, it's getting a good coat to protect the model, but not so much that it runs, pools, frosts, or gums up details. The safest way to ensure complete protection is to spray gloss, spray matte lightly until the whole model is matte. Do it multiple times if you have to, better to spray it with matte three or four times until it's no longer glossy than accidentally spray too much at once.

 

An easy way to make dark models pop is to use a bright base and bright colors for details. For example, a model that's Vallejo Dark Blue Grey will stand out more if it's on a white snow base and has glowing yellow or green eyes, a white mouthplate, or a bright red symbol on its armor.

 

If you don't want to make your model too dark after applying inks, washes, or shades, you can carefully apply the wash only in the cracks, or when it's dry, you can go back with the Vallejo Dark Blue Grey and re-paint the armor surfaces to brighten it up again after the wash darkened it, leaving the wash in the cracks.

[Arkhanist]

Hi all. Apologies if this answer is somewhere but I've yet to find it in the tutorials section etc.

 

First....it was recommended to me use gloss varnish and then matte varnish as a way to protect the paint jobs, but on the handful I've completed, they are still noticeably shiny! Do I need to do multiple layers of matte varnish here to deaden the effect? Could I just go with matte in general and still have a relatively resilient paint job?

 

 

I'm going to assume you're using spray cans.

 

Gloss then matt is a bit of a hangover from the old, old days, when gloss usually was tougher than matt. With modern varnishes, they're as tough as each other (if they're the same type). However, rule of thumb is two or three thin coats is better than one thick coat - a thick coat of varnish (i.e. so much it starts to drip!) can have a bad effect on how it looks; most commonly, a dimpled 'orange peel' effect or lumpy finish.

 

So you can do a thin coat of gloss as suggested and use that as a guide so you can see if you've missed any spots when doing the matt coat, which it sounds like what's happened. As long as you don't blast it with varnish, you can do multiple thin coats of matt to get the final finish right, just let each get touch dry before doing another layer. Or go straight to two thin coats of matt, and do your best to get good overall coverage. You don't need to get every single cranny (unless you've got gloss there showing through!), but you do want to cover major surfaces and places its likely to get knocked (helmet, shoulders, weapons, calves etc).

 

Varnish manufacturer matters too; cheap craft spray varnish can be a bit rubbish. Testors dullcote is the 'gold standard' of miniature spray varnish, but slightly pricey per ml. Army Painter anti-shine matt varnish is pretty good and a bit cheaper per ml. GW's munitorum varnish is more of a satin finish, which some people prefer to straight matt for things like space marines.

 

Finally, you can get matt varnish in a bottle. It's a pain to apply to the whole model by brush, but it is perfectly viable to use to touch up any missed spots, particularly if using gloss-then-matt. I use the bottled version of army painter anti-shine matt varnish for this.

 

With regards adding contrast, Lovecraft0110's suggestions are good, but I would tweak it slightly. All washes, including army painter dark tone wash, can dry a bit blotchy on smooth surfaces like space marine armour straight from the bottle. I'd recommend thinning it down with the army painter "quickshade wash mixing medium" first.

 

If you don't have a palette with dimples, you can use a clean bottle cap for this. Just mix it roughly 1 to 1 (i.e. one drop wash, one drop mixing medium) and slather it on the panels. Then any obvious big pools in crevices, wipe off your brush, then use it to 'suck' the excess wash up and out the crevice; pools can dry leaving a bit of a tide ring, which looks unsightly. Once it's dry, if you want to make it darker, you can do another coat of the wash. You can do exact same trick with GW paint, i.e. nuln oil mixed with lahmian medium, it's just more expensive!

[Magos Takatus]

Hey, Lukoi, I will give you one possible way to do this. Not the only way, by any means, but I have been teaching kids how to paint minis since '08, so I know what works for beginners and what doesn't.

 

 

First of all, forget that idea about "talent". I totally sucked at this when I started. Like...really badly. Some people will need less practice, others, like me, will need a lot. That's it.

 

 

I agree entirely with this statement. I present to you some of the first models I painted, My goblin with a bow, then the space marines, then finally the most recent model I've painted. Don't get me wrong, I'm not the best painter in the world by a huge margin but I can say I improved over time rather than just being good to start with. I've seen some people make dramatic improvements over 6 months or so while I've been posting on Instagram. Just a little patience and a fair bit of practice and you'll get there. :)

 

 

Another thing to bear in mind is that when I started painting in the hobby the internet wasn't the resource it is now, it really is a treasure since you can get quick answers to questions it took me ages to discover, even answers to questions I didn't know to ask in the first place.

 

As for the varnishing I must defer to other's wisdom. With so many shiny metal parts on my Adeptus Mechanicus models I don't tend to use matte varnish very often and if I do only sparingly.

[Lukoi]

Appreciate the feedback all. I've been using paint on varnish and primers to ensure coverage. Perhaps I've been laying the gloss on too thick in comparison to the matte.

 

I have dark tone, soft tone, and blue tone washes from Army painter and will try what's recommended above with the dark tone.

 

All of the tutorial videos show people deliberately painting into those recesses with a color, which was my question (which color to use) before drybrushing.

[pawl]

Secondly, I am painting my space marine forces in Vallejos dark grey blue color. What should I shade it with to get the panels and details to pop out, or more distinct like I see in all of the model work here.

 

Seems like folks tend toward lighter colored armies, and go with a dark color for the shading, but dark grey blue is already fairly dark. Any recommendations?

Not sure how much use this will be, but I had a quick look at impcat, and it suggested VMC 868 Dark Sea Green

 

 

That's assuming you're using 70.904 like I think?

[Arkhanist]

For vallejo dark grey blue on armour, definitely a black wash, i.e. dark tone. Soft tone is a warm sepia, which is ideal to use over a pale bone base colour for purity seal parchment. Blue tone is handy for lighter blues, definitely, but would be too light for your colour.

 

Recess wash then drybrush or drybrush then wash is a matter of taste. Wash first then drybrush means you get a lighter final effect. Drybrushing can look a little chalky though, so doing a thinned wash afterwards instead helps blend the highlight into the main colour. When I'm using drybrushing, I'll actually tend to do both - heavy wash to darken crevices and overall tone down, then targeted drybrushing to lighten it up (often with two stages) then a final thin wash to blend it all together again.

 

The thing about mini painting though is you're developing a number of skills together. There's many ways of painting, and different guides will use a mix of different ones. I've been painting minis for oh, 30 years now on and off, and I'm still constantly learning new things as people have new ideas and ways of putting things together, and new paints open up new options etc. I consider myself a decent painter, but not a spectacular one - but then it's a hobby, not my day job!

 

I suspect it is a bit more daunting starting now, as you can easily see all the absolute best work that very talented people have poured many, many hours into per mini - the absolute pinnacle of the art when i started would probably be only considered fairly decent now as the standard has risen so much! But there's also an unbelievable amount of guides and help online so you've a far wider pool of inspiration to draw on.

 

The best tools are still a steady hand, practise, and experimentation though! I will often try out something I've seen online, and a couple of variants of it - it all comes down to personal preference in the end, what techniques work best for you; there's very few 'definitive' best methods, only ideas to give you a head start. And practise - lots and lots of it, to improve as you go.

 

I really like midwinter mini's 'speed painting' videos which show how to get good results without spending vast amounts of time per mini and using fairly 'beginner friendly' techniques. Here's an example where he does chaos space marines for how it works for a near black using drybrush then wash, you can obviously adjust the colours a bit to suit your scheme, and you can use pre-mixed colours instead of making your own as he does.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Arkhanist

[Lukoi]

Thanks all, and man that Impcat is just a spectacular tool.

[pawl]

Thanks all, and man that Impcat is just a spectacular tool.

The colours aren't always perfect, but I've found they're close enough to work with. I've had a couple of paints show up a little darker or lighter than real life, but it seems to depend on the model too.

 

Do a search and you'll find their subreddit - personally I think it's worth a couple of quid. =]

Edited June 23, 2020 by pawl

[Lukoi]

 

Thanks all, and man that Impcat is just a spectacular tool.

The colours aren't always perfect, but I've found they're close enough to work with. I've had a couple of paints show up a little darker or lighter than real life, but it seems to depend on the model too.

 

Do a search and you'll find their subreddit - personally I think it's worth a couple of quid. =]

 

 

Oh I've already bought it, gotten some SVG's to compare and visited the hobby store to buy the appropriate color schemes for my intentions here.

 

Incidentally I'm basing them in a darker color, 70.867 Dark Blue Grey, but having that tool allowed me to find the other associated colors as well as trims, guns, etc.  It's really useful.

 

Now I just need to practice the strokes and be patient with my little assembly line of 20 intercessors, 15 scouts, 3 more aggressors, 5 inceptors, and a partridge in a pear tree etc lol.

Edited June 23, 2020 by Lukoi

[Lukoi]

 

Generally speaking, this is it, altho the company trim is Mephiston red, not vallejo's, and I'm torn on the blue color for the soft armor bits, but I do want something other than grey, silver, or black in there.  Something that sticks out a bit but looks right.

One more question  -- do I need to add the pauldron decals before the varnish, or does that need to happen last? I don't know how varnish impacts them, having never done this.

[pawl]

Ah, sorry, I had the wrong one!

 

Had a little play again myself, and struggled while avoiding those colours.

Perhaps you could match the company markings, rather than using a contrasting colour?

 

https://i.imgur.com/K51BSz8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/4oCQayM.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Sn3Y9yo.jpg

Edited June 23, 2020 by pawl

[Lukoi]

Ah, sorry, I had the wrong one!

 

Had a little play again myself, and struggled while avoiding those colours.

Perhaps you could match the company markings, rather than using a contrasting colour?

 

https://i.imgur.com/K51BSz8.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/4oCQayM.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/Sn3Y9yo.jpg

 

Oh, now that's a splendid idea.  Many thanks pawl, I'm stealing that red one immediately :)

[Firedrake Cordova]

One more question  -- do I need to add the pauldron decals before the varnish, or does that need to happen last?

This might help: http://www.scalemodelguide.com/painting-weathering/decals/apply-waterslide-decals/ :)

[Arkhanist]

 

 

 

One more question  -- do I need to add the pauldron decals before the varnish, or does that need to happen last? I don't know how varnish impacts them, having never done this.

 

Nice looking scheme, hope it goes well! Edge highlighting as shown in the example does take a fair bit of practice to look good (I still hate doing it due to shaky hands!) but we all have to start somewhere!

 

Traditionally, you do gloss varnish on the area where the transfer will go (or the whole model, if you're doing gloss-then-matt) to provide a nice smooth surface for it. Then matt varnish after to blend it in and protect the transfer from damage. Using microsol and microset definitely help the transfer go on easier on a curved surface like a marine shoulderpad, but are not mandatory! Good short guide on the whole process here.

[Lukoi]

Thanks gents, will check both of those out.  I hope to have the decals en route shortly.