Ephrael Stern & Kyganil Rules

[FelipeFlops]

Ephrael Stern

Kyganil of the Bloody Tears

Not to shabby to be honest.

[Gederas]

Too bad they break Battleforge like Aleya & Valerian though.

 

They have nice rules, and even better models (well, in the case of Stern. Kyganil is "okay"), but they'll never see play outside of Open/Narrative play (and if that)

Edited June 25, 2020 by Gederas

[FelipeFlops]

Too bad they break Battleforge like Aleya & Valerian though.

 

They have nice rules, and even better models (well, in the case of Stern. Kyganil is "okay"), but they'll never see play outside of Open/Narrative play (and if that)

 

 

I wonder if they will have a way around that, maybe similar to Inquisitors?

 

Also from the article;

 

 

 

Ephrael Stern and Kyganil are a great addition to any army and they can be included in any Imperium Detachment without taking up a slot.

[BluejayJunior]

Too bad they break Battleforge like Aleya & Valerian though.

 

They have nice rules, and even better models (well, in the case of Stern. Kyganil is "okay"), but they'll never see play outside of Open/Narrative play (and if that)

Aleya and Valerian no longer break battleforged with the PA update. I'm sure there is a similar rule for these two as well. 

[Gederas]

Too bad they break Battleforge like Aleya & Valerian though.

 

They have nice rules, and even better models (well, in the case of Stern. Kyganil is "okay"), but they'll never see play outside of Open/Narrative play (and if that)

Aleya and Valerian no longer break battleforged with the PA update. I'm sure there is a similar rule for these two as well.

I thought they still do to my knowledge from the reviews we've gotten? As they only have the IMPERIUM keyword in common as a unit, after deployment they're fine. But when list building stage (when Battleforged is determined) they break it.

 

Edited June 25, 2020 by Gederas

[Aqui]

It was stated on the GW twitch stream, that they don't break Detachments and can be used by any Imperial army. However, they can not be used by any Eldar faction. Edited June 25, 2020 by Aqui

[BluejayJunior]

 

Too bad they break Battleforge like Aleya & Valerian though.

 

They have nice rules, and even better models (well, in the case of Stern. Kyganil is "okay"), but they'll never see play outside of Open/Narrative play (and if that)

Aleya and Valerian no longer break battleforged with the PA update. I'm sure there is a similar rule for these two as well.

I thought they still do to my knowledge from the reviews we've gotten? As they only have the IMPERIUM keyword in common as a unit, after deployment they're fine. But when list building stage (when Battleforged is determined) they break it.

 

 

Maybe I am mistaken then. I know Sisters of Silence can be included in Custodes armies now, I assumed it worked with them as well. I'd have to see what the actual rules say to be certain. 

But the Twitch stream today did say that Ephrael and Kyganil can be included in an Imperium army without breaking anything. 

[Gederas]

Maybe I am mistaken then. I know Sisters of Silence can be included in Custodes armies now, I assumed it worked with them as well. I'd have to see what the actual rules say to be certain. 

 

But the Twitch stream today did say that Ephrael and Kyganil can be included in an Imperium army without breaking anything.

Yup, they're still broken. Good on GW for fixing it with a new Character unit.... But it wouldn't be GW if they didn't forget to fix the older one

Edited June 25, 2020 by Gederas

[Balerion84]

"Think of it as a mini Smite"

I'm sorry, but how is that a mini Smite? Easier to cast against chaos, can't be denied, does d6 on 9+. "Mini" Smite indeed. :D

[taikishi]

Bring Cypher, keep him within 18", and you can always succeed on a 3+

[Atrus]

Cipher, Stern and Kyganil in the same army?! I smell heresy...

 

Let's add Eisenhorn and Cherubel as well for a really radical group.

Edited June 26, 2020 by Atrus

[Interrogator-Chaplain Ezra]

 

Too bad they break Battleforge like Aleya & Valerian though.

 

They have nice rules, and even better models (well, in the case of Stern. Kyganil is "okay"), but they'll never see play outside of Open/Narrative play (and if that)

 

 

I wonder if they will have a way around that, maybe similar to Inquisitors?

 

Also from the article;

 

 

 

Ephrael Stern and Kyganil are a great addition to any army and they can be included in any Imperium Detachment without taking up a slot.

 

A Harlequin character who can't be taken in Harlequin armies, then? Wonderful.

[Raven1]

Bring Cypher, keep him within 18", and you can always succeed on a 3+

Your right, how crazy is that. I'm not sure how good it would be, but certainly fun.

[taikishi]

 

 

Too bad they break Battleforge like Aleya & Valerian though.

 

They have nice rules, and even better models (well, in the case of Stern. Kyganil is "okay"), but they'll never see play outside of Open/Narrative play (and if that)

 

 

I wonder if they will have a way around that, maybe similar to Inquisitors?

 

Also from the article;

 

 

 

Ephrael Stern and Kyganil are a great addition to any army and they can be included in any Imperium Detachment without taking up a slot.

 

A Harlequin character who can't be taken in Harlequin armies, then? Wonderful.

 

 

Pretty much. Yesterday's stream confirmed that neither character can be taken by the four Eldar armies

Edited June 26, 2020 by taikishi

[ValourousHeart]

Pretty much. Yesterday's stream confirmed that neither character can be taken by the four Eldar armies

 

Well that makes sense if you read the books.

 

He is an outcast from the Harlequins, which means that all of Eldar society will know that he is cast out and why.

 

As for Stern, she was a captured slave of the Dark Eldar... they are not known for fielding conscripts and prison gangs.

She also beat their best in the arena, meaning that they probably don't have fond feelings for her.

And she escaped the arena, instead of dying there.

 

On the flip side the Imperium is often in the dark about things.

So it would be easy for Stern to inject herself into a theater and either operate under their radar, or straight up introduce herself with fair confidence that only a select few will have heard of her.

[CaptainMarsh]

There are three important facts we need to know to evaluate her:
1- Can she brought alone? Unlikely, but we'll see.
2- Do they break rules we care about? We don't know enough yet, but it is the primary concern.
3- What are the points?

I really like her and view the Harlequin as a 5+ FnP bubble for her that can do some damage against weak hordes. But it is hard to say how excited I am for the release just yet.

[Brother Tyler]

A Harlequin character who can't be taken in Harlequin armies, then? Wonderful.

He's not a Harlequin, though. He's a former Harlequin. Kyganil is an outcast, no longer a member of the Bloody Tears Masque. The book should give us some background (and understanding) on this. Actually, any of the books (the graphic novel, the novel, and the Psychic Awakening book) should give us the basic background.

[BluejayJunior]

There are three important facts we need to know to evaluate her:

1- Can she brought alone? Unlikely, but we'll see.

2- Do they break rules we care about? We don't know enough yet, but it is the primary concern.

3- What are the points?

I really like her and view the Harlequin as a 5+ FnP bubble for her that can do some damage against weak hordes. But it is hard to say how excited I am for the release just yet.

From everything we've seen so far:

1- no, they are a unit and always come together

2- It was mentioned that they can be taken in any Imperium army without breaking battleforged. I assume it will be like Inquisitors in that they don't count against chapter tactics and things either.

3- no idea

[taikishi]

If you're adverse to the news forum for any reason:

 

115 points for the pair, must take both.

Special rule for the unit lets them be taken in Imperium detachments without eating a slot, don't break detachment abilities such as combat doctrines and order convictions, and are ignored for Battle Brothers rules as long as every unit in your army is Imperium (and not Fallen) and/or Unaligned.

 

Edit: the way this is written, you can still include Fallen, just now the unit eats an HQ slot if you do.

 

"This unit can be included in any Imperium detachment without taking to a slot, as long as every unit in your army (with the exception of those that are Unaligned) has the Imperium keyword (and does not have the Fallen keyword)."

Edited June 30, 2020 by taikishi

[taikishi]

Edit to my edit: Unless Unexpected Allies is the only way to bring them, and I see nothing stating that it is (HQ battlefield role, Imperium faction keyword), even if Fallen invalidate the entire ability you can still bring the pair in an Auxiliary detachment, you just lose out on Sacred Rites -- which Fallen break anyway.

[CaptainMarsh]

I don't really care about the Fallen loophole possibility in any case.

They look really nice for 115 and since they don't shatter rules in place already I think they'll work wonders. Stern has Space Marine Captain levels of protection, but better. T4, W6, 3+/4++ and a -1 to hit her at all times. With her buddy along for the ride she also has a 5+ FnP. She has pretty decent melee output with 4 Attacks hitting on 2s, S5, AP-3, D2. Her Daemonifuge ability that we've all seen is super good.

 

He looks fine. In addition to what we have already seen he has a 4++ and fights first. He mostly exists to give her a 5+ FnP and to throw a ton of attacks out there.

Taken as a pair, look at them as a single model. If you had a 12 Attack model with 8 Attacks at S4 AP-1 D1 damage hitting on 2s and 4 Attacks that strike first, and 4 Attacks at 2s, S5, AP-3, D2, you'd be looking at a choppy choppy model. And that is how I view them. Since I will always be keeping him within 3" of Stern, I will be treating them as one element on the field.

All of this for 115 points. Not bad at all. You get a better smite at range, a melee blender up close, and a strong defensive character for the price.

Edited June 30, 2020 by CaptainMarsh

[A.T.]

All of this for 115 points. Not bad at all. You get a better smite at range, a melee blender up close, and a strong defensive character for the price.

 

But where do they fit on the battlefield?

 

As a defensive unit you would seem to get better returns on 115 points of regular support characters - a canoness will hit as hard if not harder than Stern at half the cost but isn't twiddling her thumbs waiting for a target.

 

Similarly on deepstrike she is unlikely to get much work done until her second turn on the board. The option to ressurect her via divine intervention could mix things up but if her targets move away she doesn't pursue particularly quickly.

[CaptainMarsh]

Your normal Canoness doesn't have a 5+ FnP, 6W, -1 to hit, or a 5W buddy that comes pre-packaged. Your average Canoness will need to run up the field to hit as hard(or harder) while Stern is 1" faster and can deep strike, so she is more likely to get where she wants to be. In that melee, your average Canoness with a Blessed Blade is S5 AP-3 d3 damage- relic to make that 3 Damage. There are of course other weapons and options, but I'll agree that you can outfit a Canoness to do more melee damage (and lose out on making her an even better support character) than Stern. But when you add Kyganil, you are gaining 8 more attacks that also hit at 2s at S4, AP-1, D1 damage. A Canoness could do more ranged damage with a pistol, but Stern has a very high chance of dishing out D3 mortal wounds every shooting phase, and a decent chance at dishing out D6 mortal wounds.

None of this is to say that Stern and Kyganil are some sort of autoinclude. But when you get a new and generic character the first hurdle is for them to not suck, the second hurdle is for them to be a fair include with price and capability, and the third is for them to be amazing and you can't imagine your life without them. They comfortably pass the first two hurdles.

For what they cost, they are a very solid unit. Whether they fit into a player's meta list or whether they out-efficient support choices is an entirely separate topic.

 

Edited June 30, 2020 by CaptainMarsh

[A.T.]

There are of course other weapons and options, but I'll agree that you can outfit a Canoness to do more melee damage

 

A bare bones canoness with nothing but a blessed weapon marginally out-hits her, before adding any kind of bonuses. The point was that defensively at least you lose out on buffing your units for questionable punch compared to the alternative.

 

I guess my first impression is that a player would be short changing themselves if they aren't getting some use out of her deepstrike. Unless they are tight on HQ slots or something.

[CaptainMarsh]

The punch isn't questionable though, even in comparison. You have 4 S5 AP-3 D2 attacks. You have a better than Smite Smite that can't be denied or peril. You have an additional wound, an additional point of toughness, -1 to hit, an additional inch of movement, a Deepstrike, and the same save.

You are also paying for 5 additional wounds that come with 4 Attacks that can be split between S4 AP-1 D3 or S3 AP-1 D1 but make two attacks per use. You are also paying for Stern to have a 5+ FnP, and for these additional attacks to strike first before anyone else. This one also Deepstrikes and moves 8".

Importantly, you can slot this in with any Sisters force you want to without needing to build a detachment around an Order. Nor do you need to spend warlord traits or use relics to make her outperform, nor do you need to put her in very specific Orders to raise her profile. You can put her anywhere, regardless of your Order Detachment plan, as long as you have the points. They are a value add across the spectrum.