Tactics going forward

[McElMcNinja]

 

 

When do you choose a plague company, is it during list construction or pre-battle?

List construction

Thank you, were did you find that? I've been looking and haven't seen either.

[jgascoine011]

 

 

When do you choose a plague company, is it during list construction or pre-battle?

List construction

Thank you, were did you find that? I've been looking and haven't seen either.

 

It will be in the main rule book of choosing and army probably.

 

Its 100% not pre-battle though as then it would be impossible to have your warlord use one of the warlord traits lol

[jgascoine011]

Just bought 2 termite drills as they are looking super awsome with the new DG rules

 

The ability to put in 10 DG, with a bigious and a blightspawn and deepstrike them where you need to be is just great.

Also, as long as the the rules dont change in 9th, auspex scan and "no deeptrike within 12" should not apply to the plague marines, as while the termite can be shot at or forced to deepstrike more than 12" away, the PM inside are not subject to these rules, so can then disembark 3" away, sill being within 12" to through 10D6 S4 D2 grenades...not too shabby.

And then if they are charged then then bligthspawn allows you to fight 1st.

 

Then you also have the termite, which is actually pretty decent. D3 melta shots, the ability to do a resonable ammount of damage in combat, high thoughness, decent armour. Through on DR and you have a unit that is pretty hard to kill, while also being pretty decent at doing damage, something DG suck at right now.

 

A termite also fits the DG theme quite well too i think.

[Plaguecaster]

I’ll be waiting to hear from forgeworld to see if I’m screwed over when they release the 9th rules for the FW units I usually use like contemptors and leviathans to see how more expensive they’ll get otherwise I’ll probably use quite a lot of the old DG stuff like Defilers with DR and either a large bunker unit or Possessed or Plague Marines Edited July 4, 2020 by Plaguecaster

[N1SB]

Hi guys, I'm looking at:

 

The Feel No Pain Stratagem (from War of the Spider) + Leviathan

 

AND/OR:

 

The Feel No Pain Stratagem (from War of the Spider) + 20 Possessed Marines

 

OR before that, a small-scale proof-of-concept test with only:

 

The Feel No Pain Stratagem (from War of the Spider) + 6 Possessed Marines

 

Because that only costs 1 CP and is a nice experiment.  Will make them like plague zombie Primaris.

[Heretic]

Played with my DG vs Ravenguard today, old pointcosts, new rules. Scorched Earth, lost14-90. Snipers wiped out my 5++ bell and then 9 suppressors and 5 plasma-inceptors annihilate my 20 men blob of plague marines. Cover and 4+ FNP didnt help.

Edited July 5, 2020 by Heretic

[Special Officer Doofy]

Ravenguard is one of the best factions and DG is about the worst. I still would not have guessed the score would be that lopsided. Thanks for sharing. PA gave DG more options but didn't flat out buff them. I hope we don't have to wait too long for a codex.

[Zombs]

Played with my DG vs Ravenguard today, old pointcosts, new rules. Scorched Earth, lost14-90. Snipers wiped out my 5++ bell and then 9 suppressors and 5 plasma-inceptors annihilate my 20 men blob of plague marines. Cover and 4+ FNP didnt help.

Did you use Cloud of flies to make the marines untargettable?

[jgascoine011]

 

Played with my DG vs Ravenguard today, old pointcosts, new rules. Scorched Earth, lost14-90. Snipers wiped out my 5++ bell and then 9 suppressors and 5 plasma-inceptors annihilate my 20 men blob of plague marines. Cover and 4+ FNP didnt help.

Did you use Cloud of flies to make the marines untargettable?

If you get 1st turn, which is now a 50/50 after deployment so you have no idea if you will be going 1st when setting up

[Zombs]

No LoS blocking terrain either? I usually can hide 10-15 marines behind a big ruin.

[jgascoine011]

No LoS blocking terrain either? I usually can hide 10-15 marines behind a big ruin.

 

Good luck vs ravenguard

Ignore LOS snipers, redeployment shenanigans, scouting warsuites, fast movement and deepstrike

[BlackTriton]

I have now played my DG list in over 5 9ed game against : 
blood angels

space wolf

custode

world eater

These were all either melee focussed or hybrid build, so my opinion might be biased, be here is my opinion. 

 

Unless you go for blightlords, if you play pure deathguard you play poxmonger and there are no way around it.

The 4++ is too important to pass up, their warlord trait (+1 AP vs infantry) is one the few good one, both stratagems are great. 

 

The "deamon toll" is not very good, unless you play a list like 8 rhino rush and 60+ plague marines where its a must.

I play 3 rhino with 5 melee PM in them, I spend 3 CP for DR on my rhino, its plenty to make them hard to kill.

 

Blight hauler are incredible now with poxmonger. auto take 3 of them, maybe even 6 to act a front line. 

BlightSpawn is now an auto include since it allows you to hit chargers first in addition to his previous role.

a good strat is then to screen the army with blight haulers, when they get charge they fight first (and fight suprisingly well, you can even put blade of putrefaction on them) and they can take the hit, fall back and still shoot and leaves the charging enemy open to blight bombardment. 

 

I did not play with PBC much, since I expect them to be costed at 200pt minimum going foward. and its harder to keep them in the 4++ aura without having either them or the DP out of position. still, its a strong pick for sure. 

 

I play about 30 PM in my army, and their downfall il the lack of AP. the poxmonger +1AP vs infantry, blight haulers +1 AP aura, solves that problems and make them the killing machine they should be. I recomment a squad of 12-14 just with bolters to be cloud of fly.

Their most important role is to spend the CP of the army. You need a plan for all these new CP and plague marine gives you plenty of ways to spend them with a choice of blight bombardment, super bolter fire, or blade of putrefaction / putrecent vitality to kill anything in melee. if they survive turn 3, they are impossible to shift. 

 

all in all, I found that all my game were mine to lose. positionning is hard and once you commit there is no going back. but do it well and there is nothing the oponent can do to stop you. its a very rewarding army for sure.

[Zombs]

I have now played my DG list in over 5 9ed game against :

blood angels

space wolf

custode

world eater

These were all either melee focussed or hybrid build, so my opinion might be biased, be here is my opinion.

 

Unless you go for blightlords, if you play pure deathguard you play poxmonger and there are no way around it.

The 4++ is too important to pass up, their warlord trait (+1 AP vs infantry) is one the few good one, both stratagems are great.

 

The "deamon toll" is not very good, unless you play a list like 8 rhino rush and 60+ plague marines where its a must.

I play 3 rhino with 5 melee PM in them, I spend 3 CP for DR on my rhino, its plenty to make them hard to kill.

 

Blight hauler are incredible now with poxmonger. auto take 3 of them, maybe even 6 to act a front line.

BlightSpawn is now an auto include since it allows you to hit chargers first in addition to his previous role.

a good strat is then to screen the army with blight haulers, when they get charge they fight first (and fight suprisingly well, you can even put blade of putrefaction on them) and they can take the hit, fall back and still shoot and leaves the charging enemy open to blight bombardment.

 

I did not play with PBC much, since I expect them to be costed at 200pt minimum going foward. and its harder to keep them in the 4++ aura without having either them or the DP out of position. still, its a strong pick for sure.

 

I play about 30 PM in my army, and their downfall il the lack of AP. the poxmonger +1AP vs infantry, blight haulers +1 AP aura, solves that problems and make them the killing machine they should be. I recomment a squad of 12-14 just with bolters to be cloud of fly.

Their most important role is to spend the CP of the army. You need a plan for all these new CP and plague marine gives you plenty of ways to spend them with a choice of blight bombardment, super bolter fire, or blade of putrefaction / putrecent vitality to kill anything in melee. if they survive turn 3, they are impossible to shift.

 

all in all, I found that all my game were mine to lose. positionning is hard and once you commit there is no going back. but do it well and there is nothing the oponent can do to stop you. its a very rewarding army for sure.

I really appreciate your feedback on games played. Thank you!

 

How do you feel about the new objeftives being far apart and making you split your army?

Also I agree with poxmonger being super strong, feels almost like an autoinclude.

Did you try blightlords by chance?

Opinions on our best secondaries?

Edited July 6, 2020 by Zombs

[BlackTriton]

 

[...]

I really appreciate your feedback on games played. Thank you!

 

How do you feel about the new objeftives being far apart and making you split your army?

Also I agree with poxmonger being super strong, feels almost like an autoinclude.

Did you try blightlords by chance?

Opinions on our best secondarie

 

I cant speak to secondaries, in an effort to learn the core rules, we chose to ignore them for now, playing with the primary and the secondary specific to the mission only. 

 

Objective are not particularly far apart, but you do have to commit to them because of how slow DG is.

there is sometime  a game of chiken, where both players keep unit in range of objectives away from the main action ready to re-take them if the other makes a move.

 

The thing we need to understand before we talk blight lords is just how impossible it is to play castle and score late game.

Today I played an imperial guard with 2x leman russ and a baneblade, a duo of hellhound and plasma scion for troops.

He has the fire power to really dig into the daemon engine, even with the 4++, but he cannot control the board, he lost turn 3 because he was so far behind on the primary even if I got table on turn 4 (I would not) he could not win. 

 

Blight lords are better by how important it is to control the center of the board, they can be made to be a real deathstar unit that is impossible to shoot (cloud of fly) and if charged will fight first so they are virtually un-charge-able.  they play to the best of what deathguard has to offer (resilience and close range power) but also the worst (no mobility at all)

a savy opponent will simply not engage the blight lords, put units in reserve and control the board where you're not, sacrificing meaningless units to road block you. 

Edited July 7, 2020 by BlackTriton

[Heretic]

Played against ravenguard today, again. In this time i win, but don't know the exact score, because my opponent surrendered in the third battle round. 

His list: 

Battalion of RG successors:

Captain with JP, Teeth of Terra

Techmarine, warlord, trait: redeploy 

3x5 Infiltrators

3x3 Supressors

2x3 Eliminators

6 Agressors

5 Centurion Devastatos with gravguns

Invictor

2x1 Relic Whirlwind Scorpius

Secondaries: first strike, assasinate, domination

 

My list

Battalion, Poxmongers

DP with wings, talons, relic 4++ for daemon engines,  miasma, warlord: archcontaminator

DP with wings, relic plague blade, plaguewind

Plaguecaster, vitality, blades of ptr.

 

18 Plaguemarines, bolters and knives

2x10 cultists

 

Biologus

3x1 Blightspawns

 

2x3 Mythic blighthawlers

 

Patrol of broken faction with Nurgle keyword

Sorcerer in terminator armour, warptime, prescience, mark of nurgle

3x3 nurglings

 

Secondaries: While we stand we fight, Slay the Warlord, Psy. Ritual

 

First mission (6 markers, short sides)

 

I made conclusions from my last game. At first I sent my PMs with Biologus to Tactical Reserves. It costs 3 CP, just as 4+ FNP stratagem. I took nurglings in list to block as many redeploy moves as i can. And I replace crawlers with hawlers, which are cheaper, inflicts more damage and faster (Thx to BlackTriton for advice).

[WickedJester1013]

If you are gonna go in on the haulers why not try the old great unclean on with a bell trick.

I know I really want to try the nurgle tree out. Maybe with obliterators.

Also how do you like the plague marine blobs? Seems like something we would not want to do in this addition.

[Balerion84]

My own first game of 9th yesterday against Necrons didn't go so well. Many mistakes were made. And I failed Papa Nurgle at the end. Going 2nd, in the 5th turn I needed to cast Psychic Ritual one last time to win. His warlord could deny. We both had 1 CP left. I rolled 7. 7! And I re-rolled it... I was punished and rolled 3... couple unkind words were thrown around. Wanted to see what my opponent would roll. He denied at 6! Asked to re-roll it just so I can see what would happen. He rolled 6 again. If it wasn't my table, it'd get flipped at that moment. 

 

How to you guys like Haulers vs PBCs. I don't have any PBCs, but have 3 haulers and wondering if it's better to go all in on Haulers for 9th or get those PBCs after all. I really want to like MBHs, but their damage output always failed me (in those few games I played DG so far). Probably better to just use them as screens for big blobs of PMs? Especially now in 9th to protect that big blob? I'd really like to get PBCs but, but MBHs are so much cheaper (money-wise).

Also Big Blob of PMs or squads of 10? The new strats from WotS are really asking for big blobs, but then what to get for objective holdings? Poxwalkers are annoying but slow and there's only so much damage they can take. 

[Heretic]

why not try the old great unclean on with a bell trick.

 

For several reasons. At first, I don't like daemons. Secondly, GUO can resurrect only 2-3 haulers per battle, this is not even his own pointcost. And usually I has not enough points to include him in my list. 

 

Also how do you like the plague marine blobs? 

I'm big fun of PMs and try to force them play. In 9th u can send them to reserves and, thx for War of the Spider, throw grenades to everything in 18" of battlefield edge, or just deal 80 plague bolter shots to targets in 24", with rr to wound and -4AP on 6 to wound (22-25 -4AP shots average). 

And now u deploy your reserves in reinforcement sub-phase of movement phase, not at the end, so u can hide PMs with cloud of flies. 

[Wolf Lord Loki]

How to you guys like Haulers vs PBCs. I don't have any PBCs, but have 3 haulers and wondering if it's better to go all in on Haulers for 9th or get those PBCs after all. I really want to like MBHs, but their damage output always failed me (in those few games I played DG so far). Probably better to just use them as screens for big blobs of PMs? Especially now in 9th to protect that big blob? I'd really like to get PBCs but, but MBHs are so much cheaper (money-wise)

In answer to your question I think you probably need to go 'all in' with which ever unit you choose (PBC/MBH) as they are too pricey/ ineffective to take in small numbers

 

I have 3 drones, 3 hawlers and 2 crawlers.

 

And I don't think they see table at the same time.

 

The fart karts have never been massively killy but my favoured opponent hates them with an absolute passion. Mostly because I use them a a harassment unit that cheerfully shrugs off more than its fair share of incoming fire

[BlackTriton]

when it comes to shoosing wich deamon-engine you put in your list it depends what you need from them.

 

Blight-Haulers are the more versatile choice, always take them in squads of 3. they are a screening unit to protect plague marines from enemy charges. the strategies with them is to let the enemy charge the haulers, just to have them fall back and still shoot (poxmonger strat) and leave the enemy open to blight bombardment. 

Blight hauler also have synergies with the army with their stratagem giving valuable AP to plague marine that often dont have any and make our various flammer like wapon -2ap. 

a unit of 3 blight hauler is a good choice for any list that uses plague marine or lots of flammers.

 

Drones kinda lost their shine for me, the changes to fly combined with the changes to vehicle means they have lost their old niche. currently pointed at only 2pt less than a PBC its very hard to recommend them. Still, the flesh mower drone is dirt cheap, fast and can use fly to get into position. fly also help drone to stay into the poxmonger aura and they can save you cp for desperate breakout. I am considering trying 2-3 fleshmoyer drone as a screen instead of 3 Blight hauler, or maybe in addition to them. 

 

PBC are currently the best all round daemon engine. I found the smaller board of 9ed tend to be very busy with terrain and they can be hard to maneuver. with the change to vehicle getting rid of the PBC main weakness, I expect them to sky-rocket in points, so I mostly avoided them in testing. 

[Prot]

I have to agree... the PBC falls so far ahead in so many categories for 9th it's really hard to outright pull it off the list for any all comers kind of scenario. In fact there might be a danger of over committing to them for support/strats etc. Darn good unit to protect character sniping too.

[jgascoine011]

Really? PBC still looks kinda :cuss

D6 shots hitting on 4’s is not great, and D3 damage

Yes they are slightly tough to kill but they kill nothing.

Against a horde of orks they will kill 3 each with the mortars...hardly amazing

[MegaVolt87]

I think you guys could be up there for 9th ed with heavy points cuts + being under costed for your codex DG stuff. 

[TrawlingCleaner]

With the points leak shown I think  we came off pretty lightly (especially when looking at  the normal CSM codex). A couple of things really hurt: 18 pt PMs and 7 pt Pox walkers

These are very hefty points increases, IMO PMs should only just be 16 maybe 17 at a push. 1/2 points lower than Assault/normal intercessor hurts a lot. PBM also have gone up to 170 points each if they have plaguespitters which hurts as does the winged demon prince going up to be equal with the TS one (only 5points increase). Bloat drones went up by 16 too. Combi plas etc are all now 10points each, base combi bolters are +1 point. Typhus goes up 10 points (165)

 

FW stuff is (pretty much) dead:

Leviathan with 2x Butcher Cannon Array 289 -> 410

Contemptor with Butcher Cannon x2 138 -> 175

Deredeo with Butcher Cannon Array and Twin Heavy Bolter 177 -> 255

 

The good news is that the elite characters barely got touched, foul blightspawn 85 now, Blight haulers dropped by 2 points, blight lords only increase by 1, deathshroud are down by 3. Defilers are still the same costs.

 

Morty goes up 20 points which is the same as Magnus, I think this is fine and not too bad considering some of the other superheavies got slapped with increases

 

Overall there are some core stuff that got hit but I think we got off quite lightly. I think the PBCs will probably take a bit of a back seat, I actually think we'll see a lot of defilers now too because they can do everything  pretty well.

[jgascoine011]

With the points leak shown I think  we came off pretty lightly (especially when looking at  the normal CSM codex). A couple of things really hurt: 18 pt PMs and 7 pt Pox walkers

These are very hefty points increases, IMO PMs should only just be 16 maybe 17 at a push. 1/2 points lower than Assault/normal intercessor hurts a lot. PBM also have gone up to 170 points each if they have plaguespitters which hurts as does the winged demon prince going up to be equal with the TS one (only 5points increase). Bloat drones went up by 16 too. Combi plas etc are all now 10points each, base combi bolters are +1 point. Typhus goes up 10 points (165)

 

FW stuff is (pretty much) dead:

Leviathan with 2x Butcher Cannon Array 289 -> 410

Contemptor with Butcher Cannon x2 138 -> 175

Deredeo with Butcher Cannon Array and Twin Heavy Bolter 177 -> 255

 

The good news is that the elite characters barely got touched, foul blightspawn 85 now, Blight haulers dropped by 2 points, blight lords only increase by 1, deathshroud are down by 3. Defilers are still the same costs.

 

Morty goes up 20 points which is the same as Magnus, I think this is fine and not too bad considering some of the other superheavies got slapped with increases

 

Overall there are some core stuff that got hit but I think we got off quite lightly. I think the PBCs will probably take a bit of a back seat, I actually think we'll see a lot of defilers now too because they can do everything  pretty well.

 

DG got off lightly????

Man my iron warriors went from 1900-2050. All i had to do was change the butcher cannons on the contemptors to autocannons to get it back down to below 2k.

Hell, even the havoks got a points reduction.

 

My deathguard army....oh man, yea they will be shelved for the forseable future.

Massive waste of money right now. 0 fun to play.

A guy with a 9" weapon with random shots and strength is 85 points??? Are you smoking weed GW?

Blight lords going up in points????? How, they were massivly over costed before. 

Plague marines suck GW....please understand that.

And finally rhinos. How do they cost more than a drop pod? Morons at GW honestly. Death Guard is the weakest faction right now. They did not need a points hike on their only viable units