Heresy is back on the menu!

[bluntblade]

If qin xa and eidolon ain't ws 7 than argel tal shouldn't be either. What will make argel tal deadly is his possessed-enhanced statline in addition to custodes weapons.

 

Also keep in mind that the 20 or so top tier list is a bit misleading. Corswain's captain counted himself as part of it and got mangled by sevatar regardless.

My question was pertaining to Great Warrior status, not stats :P

 

The tier list can be misleading, but Alajos wasn't a fighter as skilled as Corswain, by his own admittance (Forgeworld have also repeatedly mentioned Corswain as being one of the very best, alongside Sev and co). So, it'll be interesting to see how Cor's handled.

 

Interesting note is that back a few years ago, Alan Bligh apparently made a comment along the lines of "Just wait til you see Corswain's rules". Though it's not a quote I know the exact origin-event for (just have seen it mentioned a few places), and the plans for the character may have been changed since then. Pinch of salt on that regardless.

If Corswain was better then Alajos, it's by a narrow margin. By his own sober estimation, Alajos is in the top 20. Edited August 8, 2020 by bluntblade

[Darkwrath121]

Regarding Crusade in general. I'm really interested in seeing the Firewing Enigmatus Cabal rules. The Excindios are the full-on meme unit, as you'll know if you've read the Lion novel, but I've a soft spot for the potential behind the Firewing guys. Based on what we know of the Firewing, they may be some kind of recon/assassination squad, and I'm a fan of stuff like that, so I'm intrigued.

 

 

If Corswain was better then Alajos, it's by a narrow margin. By his own sober estimation, Alajos is in the top 20.

Maybe, but we don't know that (we can only guess). This is a universe where stand-outs like Sigismund exist, so it's too hard to tell if the gap is that narrow for sure. At any rate, I find it's not productive to attach any kind of 'top X' to these fighters. They're all A+ grade anyway, so as far as I'm concerned, it's always exciting to get rules for any of the 'top tier'! Edited August 8, 2020 by Darkwrath121

[Billy the Squid]

 

Any comments on the rules of Redloss and Holguin?

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/03/the-road-to-thramas-part-7-end-of-the-road/

Holguin I think is a solid character. Exactly as I imagined him. Not too strong that he breaks anything, but still is scary.

 

I think Redloss isn't nearly as good. While not bad, he seems to be struggling in what he wants to do. He wants to be near enemies with his pistol, melee, and phosphex, but his warlord trait is the complete opposite, making you want to place him with a heavy support squad. Holguin does melee better, and a siege breaker does the heavy support for cheaper.

 

Here's my suggestion for Redloss. Either reduce his points a bit, as I certainly don't see him on the same level as Holguin, or do the following: Give Redloss the World Burner WL trait instead of Master of Destruction. Secondly, make his power axe not unwieldy. If they really wanted to be thematic and be accurate to the books, they should also give it armourbane and ap1 to represent him taking down that dreadnought at the beginning of Angels of Caliban. I'd even be okay with them making the axe two handed and bumping his points a bit up if they made those changes.

 

 

Eh, maybe, but I think it's more involved than that, he's not designed to be a beat stick, which I think is fine as it separates him from Holguin, Corswain and the other more powerful characters like Sigismund etc. 

 

He looks more like local force multiplier who can, in a pinch support in CC, but has enough close range weapon choices to tackle any type of unit, animal, vegetable or mineral although CCs not his niche

 

I was a bit confused until I looked at the experimental rules for the Interemptors that forgeworld put out a while back, 

 

Plasma burner 12"        4, 2 Assault D3+1*, Ignores Cover, Plasma Flame

Plasma incinerator 18"  4, 2 Heavy D3+4*, Ignores Cover, Plasma Flame

 

Pairing him with Dreadwing Interemptors covers some of their shortfall vs things like Dreadnoughts, they can melt their way through even Terminator armoured units, but vs vehicles they don't seem to have an effective counter, while the WL trait maybe makes more sense when it comes to Zone Mortalis/ perhaps taking on fortified position since Plasma burners ignore cover, combine that with Phosphex weapons which stay in play. 

 

He looks like the reverse of Armillus Dynat to me, who's the same points cost, he's a force multiplier and is completely tooled up for CC and even has weapons mastery ... but has a Cognis Signum and all his abilities are to buff force deployment and unit abilities, which runs counter to his wargear; again he's good in CC, very good, but he's not a beat stick, that's not his role. I think they are trying to do the same here, Redloss is there to fill in the gaps and take on anything the Dreadwing can't handle with his weapon selection, rather than being an out and out powerhouse. 

 

I think a lot will depend on the rules for each of the wings, I have the suspicion that Redloss will make more sense when taken with a Dreadwing force eg: like in Angle's of Caliban, where the Dreadwing are unleashed and basically burn their way through the rebel forces entrenched in the mountains using phosphex and rad instead of the Lion feeding his men into a meat grinder that favours the defenders

 

 

Edited August 8, 2020 by Billy the Squid

[Brofist]

Urgh yeah the Malcador power nerf is what utterly shattered my faith in the new rules guys when it would legit have been easier to just modify the rolls on those tables.

 

but no some weird niche case personally annoys the developers and its babies out with the bath water...

100%, it was the most hamfisted rules thing I'd seen in a long time, and a clear lack of understanding how the unit entries interacted across armies- especially when the designer said the justification was legion players abusing them

 

macls even came with rules that reduced their explosion results

[Darkwrath121]

They've said at an event last year that they're looking into ways to buff them back, to an extent. Still an extremely poorly thought out change. Especially with how relatively good that particular FAQ was otherwise!

[Aztek]

 

 

Any comments on the rules of Redloss and Holguin?

 

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/08/03/the-road-to-thramas-part-7-end-of-the-road/

Holguin I think is a solid character. Exactly as I imagined him. Not too strong that he breaks anything, but still is scary.

 

I think Redloss isn't nearly as good. While not bad, he seems to be struggling in what he wants to do. He wants to be near enemies with his pistol, melee, and phosphex, but his warlord trait is the complete opposite, making you want to place him with a heavy support squad. Holguin does melee better, and a siege breaker does the heavy support for cheaper.

 

Here's my suggestion for Redloss. Either reduce his points a bit, as I certainly don't see him on the same level as Holguin, or do the following: Give Redloss the World Burner WL trait instead of Master of Destruction. Secondly, make his power axe not unwieldy. If they really wanted to be thematic and be accurate to the books, they should also give it armourbane and ap1 to represent him taking down that dreadnought at the beginning of Angels of Caliban. I'd even be okay with them making the axe two handed and bumping his points a bit up if they made those changes.

 

 

Eh, maybe, but I think it's more involved than that, he's not designed to be a beat stick, which I think is fine as it separates him from Holguin, Corswain and the other more powerful characters like Sigismund etc. 

 

He looks more like local force multiplier who can, in a pinch support in CC, but has enough close range weapon choices to tackle any type of unit, animal, vegetable or mineral although CCs not his niche

 

I was a bit confused until I looked at the experimental rules for the Interemptors that forgeworld put out a while back, 

 

Plasma burner 12"        4, 2 Assault D3+1*, Ignores Cover, Plasma Flame

Plasma incinerator 18"  4, 2 Heavy D3+4*, Ignores Cover, Plasma Flame

 

Pairing him with Dreadwing Interemptors covers some of their shortfall vs things like Dreadnoughts, they can melt their way through even Terminator armoured units, but vs vehicles they don't seem to have an effective counter, while the WL trait maybe makes more sense when it comes to Zone Mortalis/ perhaps taking on fortified position since Plasma burners ignore cover, combine that with Phosphex weapons which stay in play. 

 

He looks like the reverse of Armillus Dynat to me, who's the same points cost, he's a force multiplier and is completely tooled up for CC and even has weapons mastery ... but has a Cognis Signum and all his abilities are to buff force deployment and unit abilities, which runs counter to his wargear; again he's good in CC, very good, but he's not a beat stick, that's not his role. I think they are trying to do the same here, Redloss is there to fill in the gaps and take on anything the Dreadwing can't handle with his weapon selection, rather than being an out and out powerhouse. 

 

I think a lot will depend on the rules for each of the wings, I have the suspicion that Redloss will make more sense when taken with a Dreadwing force eg: like in Angle's of Caliban, where the Dreadwing are unleashed and basically burn their way through the rebel forces entrenched in the mountains using phosphex and rad instead of the Lion feeding his men into a meat grinder that favours the defenders

 

 

 

How's he help vs. vehicles in an Interemptor Squad? Even a contemptor in the side armor at AV12 is immune to Interemptor weapons except for Redloss's 1 shot pistol. Tank Hunters and Wrecker doesn't do much for them I don't think? Could be wrong. ZM you're probably right.

 

Personally I see him in a squad of Deathwing Companions. Run 10 of them with 4 shields and Warblades to give the Squad a 4++ shooting and 5++ in combat, and the rest with Greatswords. They're charging in hitting on 3's cause swords, wounding on 2's with the Greatsword and 3's with the Warblade(I think warblades are S-user?) because of freaking Rad Grenades. Oh, and and any enemy models engaging the squad in assault suffers a -1 Initiative penalty. Sounds like a spooky unit to me!

Edited August 9, 2020 by Aztek

[Erren]

The best I’ve managed to come up for Redloss is 10 Machine-Killer Vets in a Termite. Give them several combi-meltas and I *think* he would confer Tank Hunter to 2 Missile Launchers with suspensors (because suspensors don’t actually change the weapon type). They could pop up turn 1 and pop a Venice and follow up with some havoc in the opponent’s backfield.

 

I’d probably be better off with some other consul for that plan, or no HQ at all, but it’d at least make use of most of his rules? Maybe?

 

Does Master of Destruction work on Rapier Batteries? It looks like it should, though I still feel like that’s a waste of his close-range abilities.

[b1soul]

@ Darkwraith121

Alajos mentions Astelan and Corswain are the only two other DA who ever beat him. That's not the same as saying either one is better than him. I could beat a guy 3 out of 10 times in games of 1 on 1 basketball. That doesn't make me a better 1 on 1 baller. We simply don't know how Astelan, Alajos, and Corswain "rank" relative to each other. We don't know under what circumstances Sev removed Alajos' face, other than it happened in battle. So it's a case of not enough info.

 

Corswain's rules should be exceptional though. He's up there...though I don't think we've ever seen him in much action. It's more based on reputational build-up.

Edited August 9, 2020 by b1soul

[Darkwrath121]

@ Darkwraith121

Alajos mentions Astelan and Corswain are the only two other DA who ever beat him. That's not the same as saying either one is better than him. I could beat a guy 3 out of 10 times in games of 1 on 1 basketball. That doesn't make me a better 1 on 1 baller. We simply don't know how Astelan, Alajos, and Corswain "rank" relative to each other. We don't know under what circumstances Sev removed Alajos' face, other than it happened in battle. So it's a case of not enough info.

 

Corswain's rules should be exceptional though. He's up there...though I don't think we've ever seen him in much action. It's more based on reputational build-up.

Of course, but I personally think that Corswain being the better fighter was the implication of Alajos's musings in Savage Weapons. A guess, sure, but with how often Corswain is held up as a remarkable fighter in both Black Library and Forge World books, it's not an unreasonable one, in my mind. It's Corswain who bears the champion's mantle, even at that point in time before Alajos's death. That's just how I read it, anyway. I understand your view though.

 

 

As for sources of him actually in action, I think the only one we have of him fighting space marines blade to blade, is in a flashback in Holder of the Keys by Gav Thorpe (a 40k story, funnily enough, in 'Lords of Caliban'), where he's depicted as

 

An unstoppable being during the fall of Caliban, with Luther's forces retreating from him, as they know that to stay would mean only death. Bisects the finest warrior of that particular garrison in a single blow.

Edited August 9, 2020 by Darkwrath121

[b1soul]

"It's Corswain who bears the champion's mantle, even at that point in time before Alajos's death."

 

That's a good point in his favour, though not sure how the mantle is assigned.

 

I do recall though that it was Alajos who was chosen as Sigismund's counterpart when the Lion and Dorn had a falling out. Still, I think you raise valid points, and would love to see Corswain's rules. I think people have been salivating for them for the better part of a decade.