9th Edition and you! What are you thinking about changing?

[Archaeinox]

I don't see a big change for All is Dust 

 

I can see them changing it. It changes in every new codex pretty much. They have absolutely no idea what to do with Rubricae. All is Dust in its current form is a joke to every opponent I meet. Playtesters like Tabletop Tactics know it, too- Hopefully adjustments have been made which provide some sort of additional passive which provides either boosted resilience or offensive capability across the board.

 

A copy/paste of Storm Shield rules as passive would be tasty and tame compared to what other factions get. Have it not apply to Aspiring Sorcerers or Scarab Occult Sorcerer. Done.

Edited January 18, 2021 by Archaeinox

[Umbros]

I'd really like it just to be an extra wound. No Invulnerable. Clean and simple. Takes a lot of bullets to kill them, because they are just a suit of armour.

 

Mind you, I'd radically change Rubricae. Make them statistically worse and the aspiring sorcerors provide specific unit buffs (eg, movement or shooting increases) in the command phase. These are then layered onto with buffs from Exalted Sorcerors. Making them more like they are in the narrative than plain old CSM.

[BoomWolf]

The problem with the rubric as it stands-it matches extremely poorly against anything intended to harm marines in the firstplace the new age of 2-wound marines.

 

Heavy bolters mess up marines-and will equally mess up rubrics because the bonus to save does not apply (multidamage) nor does the invul.

Sure, the invul helps against plasma, but you still get 1-shot at a 2+ wound roll.

Autocannons? no AiD. force weapons/master crafted (bladeguard)? nope. HBC? nada.

Basically-our "special ability" doesn't work against anything that is meant to target marines to begin with.

 

The inferno bolter is also honestly not any better than imperial bolters with thier fancy doctrines, and the fact you get hard-countered by invul based armies that currently run rampant isn't helping.

 

Now, assuming they did modify it-judging my the DG book (and marines/necrons befoer it), I'd say there are two points of design phlosopy that is likely to take point

1-less dicerolls, not more. so no rerolls, no FnP equivalent, etc. extra rolls are reserved to special models like your warlord.

2-less conditions. passive effects are in, "X if Y" (like +1 save when damage is 1) is out.

 

So, looking at a durability buff effect, that is always on, the valves that CAN be spun:

1-modify your save. giving "storm shield" to rubrics and scarabs-I find this unlikely.  we all know "1+ termis" is something that is reserved for imperials. and 2+ rubrics AINT happening.

2-Modify your toughness. stepping on DG toes too much.

3-Modifying AP. not really meaningful, as high AP attacks already get blunted by the invul. its double-dipping the same mechanic, unless you suggest they drop the invul too and just make AiD"-2 ap for incoming attacks", but then-why not just change the save? and you run into the issue of having the exact same "vaulrability" as DG, you don't like bolters and other small arms.

4-reduce wound roll. might be a tad too much.

5-reduce strength of incoming attacks. powerful, flavorful (when it's dust, you either scatter it or do nothing), and has weakspots to exploit by the savvy (S6-7 and 9+ not effected, and technically S2 too if you actually have some) and not quite as dominieering

 

So, the BEST way to implement AiD, would be to make it reduce the strength of incoming attacks.

If effects on multiple levels, of benefit to both rubrics and scarabs, it covers a different vector of attack than the DG does, and isn't too dominant.

That said, I doubt it will happen because that requires GW to actually THINK things over.

Edited January 18, 2021 by BoomWolf

[Archaeinox]

Knowing that Tabletop Tactics had a hand in all the codex playtesting makes me feel a lot better in general. 

[Ahzek451]

I don't know if a fnp type roll could be completely ruled out. Necrons still have to jump through hoops with rolling extra dice. But in the end it's really whatever gw wants to do. Rubrics started out as just being animated suits that had to be torn apart. They still are, but at one point gw decided to give them a magical shield in the form of an invuln in addition to having to tear apart the armour. In the lore anyway.

 

We once had...any weapon strength 4 or lower could not wound a rubric marine. Then we had 2 wounds. Then we got a 4++(back to one wound), and after that we got what we have today. So...who knows what is next.

 

Seeing the death guard bonuses. I hope GW will take this opportunity to grab from the fluff again by giving us some kind of sorcerer commands rules. Nearby sorcerers and squad leaders help invigorate and direct rubrics. And without them, they lose efficiency and go in auto-pilot or guard mode.

 

It seems like a good bet cults will be expanded.

 

And here is hoping we reclaim slow and purposeful and this becomes something tasty.

Edited January 19, 2021 by Ahzek451

[PiñaColada]

General rules:

I just think the current AiD rule should be altered to work on damage 1, 2 or d3. Flat 3 damage should still crack right through it but those guns are usually expensive and it'd feel a bit ridiculous if those were also blocked by a 4++ IMO.

The Brotherhood of Sorcerers rule has always felt a bit too weak to me, even compared to the old GK (but especially now with their tides). As such I think it should keep the added 6" range but also let you rerolls 1's in the when attempting to cast psychic powers and deny the witch tests. That'd both help with more difficult casts but also mitigate some of the perils risk.

 

Units & datasheets:

Exalted sorcerers should know an additional power IMO, not another cast but just another power so they have access to a bigger toolbox without using Chaos Familiar over&over.

 

The soulreaper cannon should be an additional 2 shots at its current stats (so heavy6 instead of 4) and you should also be able to take it in 5man squads of rubricae. We shouldn't have to take 180 points of rubrics to get the grand opportunity of being able to equip a fairly mediocre gun.

 

Increase the Icon of flame range to 24" if the effect is kept the same. Otherwise change it, so squads equipped with an icon get to cast real smites instead of baby ones.

 

Scarab occults are armed with khopesh and while powerswords are a lot better now, they don't actually have to be powersword stats exactly. I think the swords could be a fun place to inject a little bit of personality by giving them a unique weapon profile. I think the hellfyre missile rack could be a bit spicier, much like our bolters are 2 points of AP better than normal ones, this could have the same buff but applied to a missile launcher. Meaning make it AP-4, it's rare enough where I don't think that'll cause any issues.

The Mutalith vortex beast is 135 points as of right now, I'd say it's actually worth roughly 120ish. It's such a huge model that I'd like it to be 160ish (and actually worth those points).

Give it 12", 6 attacks and a 3+ save. Make the claws hit at +1S (it's crazy that they don't) and increase the range of all its powers by 3" (6" for the beam). Change chaotic infusion to be +1 to wound in melee instead of +1S. Change Maelstrom of Madness to giving an enemy unit -1 to hit in melee instead.

 

Stratagems:
A strat to improve infernal combi-bolters, bolter and bolt pistols of a squad by giving them +1S and an additional -1AP until the end of the phase.

 

A strat where you choose a friendly <cult> unit within 12" of a <cult> psyker in the psychic phase. Until the end of the phase you can cast your powers through that unit instead of the psyker. (Meaning measuring ranges from them, so stuff like smites/infernal gateway would hit different targets)

 

A strat where if you destroy an enemy unit with a psychic power, the unit that cast that power regains d3 wounds or a model stands back up if all other models are undamaged.

 

Psychic powers:

In general several powers need to be easier to cast, but also give them a tiered system. All Disciple of Tzeentch powers should have a secondary effect and that effect always kicks in on a 9+.

 

Take something like Temporal Manipulation, have it stay at WC6 but if you cast it a 9+ then you automatically heal 3 wounds instead of d3.

 

Weaver of fates is WC6 but if you cast it at 9+ then attacks against that unit subtract a point of Strength in addition to the normal effect.

[Archaeinox]

I think death guard got some sort of 2 CP strat which is the same as Veterans of the Long War so the Str and AP boost for inferno bolts might not happen. 

 

I wish that had just been a stratagem anyways. The AP3 we got in 2007 for the first time was always pretty silly, alongside the loss of damage mitigation (2w)

[PiñaColada]

I mean, yes, I fully expect VotLW to be gone since DG lost it and it was replaced by a 2CP strat. But a 1CP/2CP strat (cost 2CP for 6+ models) which improves a single weapon profile by a single point of strength (situationally as good as +1 to wound) and an additional point of AP seems very doable. Look at Adepta Sororitas' "Blessed Bolts" in comparison, which improves storm bolters to ap-2 and bumps them up to damage 2 as well, for a single CP.

This would improve the guns we're "supposed" to have a lot of to actually become quite scary in certain situations and would at least somewhat help with our lack of high strength weapons to punch through T8.

[Archaeinox]

What you propose as the scaling stratagem seems tame with the current design philosophy. I expect something far more devastating, for once. I could see the +1 str and +1 damage. Ouch!

 

Anyways, I'll try to not get up too much hope but the fact of the matter is that I am not making any significant hobby/model changes until I see the codex leaks, at a minimum

[Ahzek451]

True that, I mean, with our army we don't have a ton of models to choose from. Armies that are spoiled for choice often have to switch gears with new models but with us....

New codex-> already have a few rubrics, scarab occult, daemon prince, ahriman, magnus, possibly some tzaangor.......did you have to add new models? Not really. 

[Archaeinox]

It's probably reasonable to expect that Ahriman, a Daemon Prince & and Exalted Sorcerer can't all be in the same detachment. This would harm Battalion players who like having full CP. We know the strats are pretty important, but I suspect there's a few folks who wouldn't care about paying CP for a Patrol to get more HQs or different cult stuff

[Zodd1888]

I'd like to see the inverted version of Transhuman in the bolters and flammer (auto-wounds on a 4,5,6).

 

Give us the -1 to Wound vs. the DG -1 Damage on Rubrics.

 

Make the Khopesh it's own thing with stats of a Thunder Hammer.

 

You've now got Psychic/Chaos Infused Tzeentch Heretics antithetical to the DA.

 

I hear you on issues and whatever, I'm just spit-balling for sale of keeping the conversation going!

[Xenith]

What if AiD became something like Reanimation Protocols? We've seen increasingly in modern literature that the dust can pour back into Rubric Marine's armour and they get up and walk again. 

 

It doesn't quite gel with them being near impossible to put down in the first place, but has them in a niche different to plague marines. 

 

I'd really like to get my Sons on the table at least once this edition - When I can I'm building a warpflamer unit, as they'll be pretty funny. 

[Ahzek451]

The dust coming back and rebuilding is typically due to a psychic power being done and not a common inherent trait. I would love to see a bog standard psychic power that worked well with bringing back models in units with the rubric keyword. Maybe even a new model that was dedicated to this. 

 

It would also be fun if certain models gained psychic powers unique to certain models like Ahriman like age of sigmar. 

Indeed, what if rubrics got a straight -1 to wound? 

[WarriorFish]

A generic power to bring back Rubrics would be great, very fitting and would give an extra dynamic to deciding what to cast. Better still if it wasn't limited to a single cast per turn (perhaps escalating in cost like Smite?). Or maybe something more different in that every sorcerer who successfully casts a power can restore Rubrics somehow? There are many ways it could be addressed especially with change being in the air lately so who knows what will happen - the wait for a new codex is long indeed...

[Naryn]

[...]Maybe something more different in that every sorcerer who successfully casts a power can restore Rubrics somehow?

This is genius, I would love this. Fingers crossed we get something even remotely this cool in our new codex, whenever that is.

[BoomWolf]

 

Indeed, what if rubrics got a straight -1 to wound? 

 

 

As mentioned in my overview, this is just too strong, I don't see it happing.

Not for an easily-massed troop unit.

[Zodd1888]

It's not that different from what DA's get in terms of to wound.

 

S - TS / DA

 

S4 - 5+/4+

S5 - 4+/4+

S8 - 3+/2+

 

It's S3 and lower that's a problem but that's easily solved with a cap of S4 and above.

 

Given how static Rubrics and Scarabs are in terms of loadouts this doesn't feel bad to me.

[Archaeinox]

I think that they'll surprise us. It'll probably be something we don't expect. That's what happened with disgustingly resilient. What's more, All is Dust has changed pretty much every codex.

Edited January 22, 2021 by Archaeinox

[Xenith]

 

 

Indeed, what if rubrics got a straight -1 to wound? 

 

 

As mentioned in my overview, this is just too strong, I don't see it happing.

Not for an easily-massed troop unit.

 

 

It's essentially making them T6...which isnt that strong on its own. 

 

Dark Angels Inner Circle essentially have a rule that says "reduce the strength of any incoming attack to 4". Bolter? Wounds on a 4+. Lascannon? Wounds on a 4+, modifiying the below as such:

It's not that different from what DA's get in terms of to wound.

 

S - TS / DA Inner Circle

 

S4 - 5+/4+

S5 - 4+/4+

S8 - 3+/4+

 

It's S3 and lower that's a problem but that's easily solved with a cap of S4 and above.

 

Given how static Rubrics and Scarabs are in terms of loadouts this doesn't feel bad to me.

 

I can see somehting like this working. Basically Transhuman Physiology across all "RUBRIC ASTARTES".

 

Seeing what they've done with death guard is insane, though. I'm optimistic, but GW traditionally don't know what to do with Tzeentch, so I feel it's really a coin toss as to whether we get good rules. 

 

I can see some form of bonus as the game goes on, like " Storm of Magic: PSYKERS receive a bonus to cast equal to what battle round it is" It becomes really powerful, but fewer and fewer models get to take advantage as the game progresses.   

[BoomWolf]

It's not quite like turning them to T6, because T6 IS wounded on a 2+ from S12 things, and with -1 to wound, rubrics would not.

So not even melee dedicated monsters, dreadnauts, etc.. could wound them on a 2+.

 

Now, the argument about DA's inner circle doing that and more is indeed valid, if not for the fact inner circle models are NOT troops, nor nearly the same pricerange.

And it also offers no protection against S3-4, making deathwing specially weak against small arms (a bit like DG actually)-while a blanket -1 to wound does more against small arms than it does against heavy weapons.

 

Blanket -1 to wound has no weaknesses. it both "always helps" (just like old DR), and also completely dunks on all small arms (just like new DR dunks on W2 weapons)

 

 

Now, honestly? I expect nothing. GW ahs consistently shown they don't care at all about TS, considering that after a small release of handful of models (really sweet models, but only a handful)-we got abandoned. getting no more support in the model range (that we are massivly lacking) other than importing random AoS units, and then the rules department showing zero effort be it from codcies, supplements (for example, the GK got strictly better relics than ours in PA) or even FAQs

[Ahzek451]

 

Now, honestly? I expect nothing. GW ahs consistently shown they don't care at all about TS, considering that after a small release of handful of models (really sweet models, but only a handful)-we got abandoned. getting no more support in the model range (that we are massivly lacking) other than importing random AoS units, and then the rules department showing zero effort be it from codcies, supplements (for example, the GK got strictly better relics than ours in PA) or even FAQs

 

That's a lot of despair, I sense some nurgly-ness  

 

Who knows what is down the pipe. GW is known to surprise us. No one expected a huge necron update and here we are. Folks expected emperor's children for the last couple years with no solid news (lots of daemons and AoS stuff though). They know we are lacking. We were the first to get a model update and legion acknowledgement, but because of this, it very well might be that GW didn't want to go all-in at first. Testing the waters with the first daemon primarch and a few units. Then the death guard came up at the meeting and they said "eff it" pedal to the metal, going on all in. Sales are up in general, I think the general consensus is that people like legions and it seems pretty cemented that we will be living in our own codex(and not a supplement) forever more. So, having said that, GW likes Tzeentchy things(see AoS), I truly think it's a matter of time before GW comes back around to us and filling up our codex with more goodies. 

 

Would be a shame if they didn't give us anything at all for the sacred number 9th edition. 

 

And in the lore presented in the Ritual of the Damned book, Magnus has turned prospero into a factory world. Pumping out new war toys. So either GW is trolling us, or this might be a slight tease and acknowledgement of things to come. I'll remain optimistic.  

[Prot]

If GW doesn't expand the line, it could definitely inherit some of the Chaos CSM line. They did this with loyal marines. They all got just about every unit in the book, even Deathwatch. Then they got their own unique twist in their codex/supplement.

 

I would rather this didn't happen, but it may have to if they don't support us with anything new. 

[Jorin Helm-splitter]

My main frustration with the fraction and why I've stopped playing them is that the aspiring sorcerers should feel strong. So I'd really like it if Aspiring Sorcerers became an elite choice character, for each squad of rubrics you could have one without having to use a slot. Then let them choose from a few unique powers that could address rubrics weak spots (anti-tank for example) or mimic other armies support characters (apothecaries/ancients). It would add a lot of flexibility to a small model range.

[Sonoftherubric21]

Anyone else have thoughts on the "1 lord / prince per detachment"? 

 

I have an odd feeling Exalteds may not get this rule, or a different version perhaps. Why you ask? We get *THREE* in one box set. 

 

Given we have 4 HQ choices (discounting Ahriman) I think princes will still be 1 to a detachment, but Exalted may very well not be.