9th Edition and you! What are you thinking about changing?

[Lord_Valorion]

 

 

Playing for the other side? Get him everyone - attach the dreadsock to the top of your force staves for extra damage (physics is a form of magic if you think about it)

Every side is your side when you're Tzeentch!

 

I wrote up a quick battle report in my BA blog here.

 

Needless to say it didn't go well for the TS, with a mix of new model syndrome, inexperience with the army, and swingy luck seeing his troops die fast and his HQ's be near invulnerable (Ahriman passed 14 out of 15 4++ saves he was required to make in my turn 3, the daemon prince did the same in combat t2)

 

The list:

1000pt Thousand Sons

Ahriman: Warlord, firestorm, smite, doombolt, healy cult of time power

Daemon prince: Sword, talon, wings, diabolic strength, hourglass of Manat

5 Rubrics: soulreaper, glamour

5 Rubrics: Soulreaper, glamour

10 Tzaangor: Brayhorn

5 Scarab Occult: Soulreaper, Hellfyre, Glamour

Hellbrute: Multimelta, Scourge

The scarabs I neutralised early by slinging the death company into them. After the game I suggested the [duplicity?] teleport out of CC spell, which would stop them being tied down then they could have infernal fusiladed the hell out of some of my units, or the time spell to bring models back, where they would have outlasted the DC, but my friend is working his way through the cults to see how each plays, so he'll get there in time.

I think the other mistake may have been 2 big HQ's in such a small game. I also took 2, but mine totalled 260pts total with high damage output, this was probably 1/3 of the army that could have been used to bolster the tzaangors or threaten my objectives. Hourglass of Manat was a nice trick, but needs to be supported by Temporal Manipulation to get back to full wounds asap.

Thousand Sons really need the update. 1W each has rubrics too vulnerable in the current meta, poor dice notwithstanding.

Maybe I need to break out my Sons and see what they can do.

The list is not right, you need 10 Rubrics to take the soulreaper.

[Prot]

Xenith, thanks for the update. It would have been cool to do a new thread so we don't get too far into what happened in your game, but I will say the one thing about 1K games is the HQ is almost non-negotiable.

 

So I would just say here that people who think you need cheap HQ's for a 1K game... well it's not that easy. The Thousand Sons' bread and butter is a few very good, flexible HQ's. But they are the kind of staple that has to be in every game for it to work.

 

Another way of putting this is.... no matter how big or small the game is, my HQ base looks very similar (I do go in and out of DP's but that's a personal pref thing more than a optimization thing.) 

 

After the HQ base is figured out, you know how your army is going to work at that point, and the rest is really a lot of filler. By the time you get to 2k you are using Cultists, and/or Goats to fill out those deep strike and assault areas. If you can't fill that space.... you're going to lose a TON of games to quick armies.

 

I appreciate your friend is learning, but if I'm being honest about his list, I would not include Scarabs in such a small game. Once they're touched, they're done. At the very least, in a small game you must have duplicity. The board is too small to risk them in CC for too long. The whole army can be very slow, very tanky but it really is about (obviously) psychics, and all those special warp bolters + VotLW. If that gets shut down, you have to be able to counter assault with units that can clean house (DP's, Helbrutes, Defilers, etc.) Dark Matter Crystal + Duplicity is mandatory in these lists.

 

Honestly though the army has a high difficulty rating, and BA are extremely potent. It's hard to pick on your friend in this match up. :)
Give it time.... so many missmatches in 40K right now thanks to massive codex delays. I mean just look at the meta leap Death Guard took with their book. 

Edited March 4, 2021 by Prot

[Archaeinox]

I'm still staring at 6 Exalted Sorcerers and Ahriman in my display case and I can't make any hobby moves for TS until I see, at a minimum, WarCom articles on the faction's new book. 

 

I'd like to have a reason for sorcerer spam, like at the tail end of 7th. 

 

I think it's almost safe to expect some sort of mechanic facilitating additional sorcerers and making it worth taking more than a couple in the first place. 3x sorcerers out of Force Org if an Exalted/Ahriman is included in a detachment? Sorcerers can be 2 for 1 HQ slots? Anything. In fact, just the box being 3x models alone is reason for me to think this is incoming. Death Guard can take 3 of those weird characters as their own thing, right? It seems to be a precedent for this sort of situation. 

 

In any case, once we have +1 wound and +1 attack (if Rubricae even get that, cause S L O W or something...), we'll be pretty expensive with the core stuff most of us are taking. 

 

My rebuilt "core" sitting in the case is now as follows:

 

Ahriman on foot and on disc

6x various sorcerers on discs and on foot

5 Scarabs

10 Rubrics with boltguns

10 Rubrics with boltguns

10 Rubrics with Warpflamers

 

Assuming I could even run more than 3 HQs in a battalion (C'mon, GW.. It's Thousand Sons..), I'll only have about 500-700pts for Support elements with the incoming points increases.

 

We know Warpflamers are going to 12" because again, Death Guard, but without having a full picture of our teleport shenanigans (if any), I can't be purchasing Rhinos yet.. lol. 

 

Essentially a Hobby Standstill! 

[Torbenos]

An oft returning topic around here, but what do people in general like for the anti-tank/monster role that we seem to struggle with? The las-pred and the Maulerfiend seems like the main options unless I am missing something. I put together a las predetor due to already having a loyalist one I bought cheap at some point, but not sure I love it. They seem quite brittle.

[Mordas]

At the end of 8th I was using either decimators or contemptors for my anti-tank options. We lost these for a bit but they are back now. For my only game in 9th with the Sons so far I ran hell brutes but against the Drukhari (pre codex) I found I was just too slow and got outmanoeuvred and they were taken out.

 

The las predator alone won't do much on a good board with LoS blocking terrain, T7 seems easily taken out as well with everyone getting increased damaged output. My 3 man eradicator squad arrived from reserves and took out a whirlwind hiding in the back lines outside of melta range in a turn. So I wouldn't rely on it being your only Anti-tank option. Seems to me 9th you need something that can move shoot and a little combat, I would say Hellbrutes at the moment.

[Archaeinox]

My solution to filling the anti-armor gap was to take a Patrol of Tzeentch Daemons with a Super Chicken and just try to hold objectives with lots of Horrors while the Thousand Sons do what they do. In the instance where I encounter something like Knights, I just... continue to hold objectives. 

 

A pair of lascannon predators isnt a bad choice, provided you are pushing other threats up the field. An enemy will probably put shots into your Lord of Change and 20man rubric brick. It's likely that they will only shoot at the predators if their fire into the other units is overly effective and devastating, and if they dont have any other targets.

[Torbenos]

Speaking of the Super Chicken. Do I understand it right that I can make my chicken my warlord, then a 1k Sons a Magister for a warlord trait and that'd be no trouble? So one can get the ++3 Chicken and the ++3 Prince.

[The Yncarne]

Lord of Change is not an HQ option in Codex: Thousand Sons. Can't comment on how the daemon detachment interacts with the 'Sons' detachment.

[Torbenos]

Oh yeah, I mean as taking a Daemon Patrol. Just trying to figure out if there is anything stopping you using the Magister Stratagem if your Warlord isn't in the Thousand Sons deatchment.

[Archaeinox]

You can use the Magister strat to give a Thousand Sons detachment character a Thousand Sons Warlord Trait (or his applicable <Cult> Warlord Trait) if the Lord of Change in the daemon detachment is your actual Warlord.

 

You cannot use <Cult> relics though- the actual Warlord must be either a <Cult> guy (or Magnus, per a FAQ) to get access to those so just fyi.

Edited April 27, 2021 by Archaeinox

[Lucky_Lee]

An oft returning topic around here, but what do people in general like for the anti-tank/monster role that we seem to struggle with? The las-pred and the Maulerfiend seems like the main options unless I am missing something. I put together a las predetor due to already having a loyalist one I bought cheap at some point, but not sure I love it. They seem quite brittle.

 

Depending on the list or how I'm feeling and what cult, I have 3 combos of anti-armor I use.

 

There are some multi role units that I didn't include but the ones below are typically tank hunters.

 

Magic

+Magnus, DP x2, Predator Destructor

 

Knowledge

+Fire Raptor, Predator Destructor x2

 

Duplicity

+DP x2, Fire Raptor, Predator Destructor

Edited May 4, 2021 by Xenoscry