Why mods are actively censoring Arch being shunned by GW?

[Kastor Krieg]

Brother Tyler has just sent me this message.



My signature is not a discussion topic, it's not a thread. The admin argumentation given in the now closed "Moderation in News & Rumours" thread, where you linked to is completely irrelevant to a signature. Why are you are actively stifling dissemination of that particular piece of information?

At this point B&C mods, Brother Tyler particularly here, come across as accomplices of Arch, the racist and homophobe decried and rejected by Games Workshop and forbidden use of the Warhammer trademark in his media, who do what they can to help him maintain plausible deniability and his "brand" among the community.

This is not a good look for the community and not a good look for this site. This goes beyond the usual accusations of heavy handed and overreaching moderation on Bolter & Chainsword. 

This is censorship and in service to one of the most vile caricatures of a man in this community.

[Panzer]

Honestly, you were asking for it. The mods made clear that the topic is not BnC appropriate and you tried to be sneaky and circumvent it by putting it into your signature. This one is on you.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Panzer

[Kastor Krieg]

Honestly, you were asking for it. The mods made clear that the topic is not BnC appropriate and you tried to be sneaky and circumvent it by putting it into your signature. This one is on you.

No, they specifically said it's not a topic for a thread / discussion. So there's no discussion, there's information.

 

I didn't break any rules of B&C on what I can put into a signature. The only problem mods seem to have with it is that they do not want people to know that Arch got schwacked by GW.

 

My signature could not and did not create any issues on the Forum, it's purely factual. Arch is a racist and a homophobe, self-admitted. He was rejected by Games Workshop and World of Warships and he was forbidden to use the Warhammer trademark.

 

This is 40k / GW news, but it wasn't allowed into the news forum. When people objected to that in the Moderation in News & Forum thread, the thread was closed because "this is not a topic for discussion for B&C". So I put it in my sig, because it's important that people of color and LGBT folks know that the company has their back and will push back against bigots.

 

But apparently that fact is so inconvenient for B&C mods that it has to be purged even from a signature of a single barely posting user.

 

The optics are bad and these optics are that mods do not want people of color and LGBT folks to know GW has their back.

 

WHY.

[Panzer]

Dude just stop. You can't be this naive. You have to know what you are doing there right now and it's obviously not okay.

[Lord Marshal]

It's politics baiting and you know it. I don't care what political spectrum somebody falls under because I am getting utterly sick to death of watching forums and places that have formally been non-politic turn into absolute quagmires of members ripping one another apart because some people want to try and slip what IS politics past the radar under the guise of "Snarf, snarf, if you don't think this discussion is appropriate you're obviously a far-right neo Nazi literal Hitler. GET HIM!!"

 

I can't stand Arch. I've never made it more than five minutes into one of his videos even out of ghoulish curiosity, but I don't want to see his metaphorical head-on-a-spike being paraded around here because those people know EXACTLY what they're trying to do.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Lord Marshal

[Kastor Krieg]

Dude just stop. You can't be this naive. You have to know what you are doing there right now and it's obviously not okay.

Stop what? Trying to get the information out? The information that mods are actively censoring here? Or stop talking about the censorship?

 

Why are you so ok with this?

[Kastor Krieg]

It's politics baiting and you know it. 

No, it's not. It's community :cussing service is what it is. People of color and LGBT people deserve to know.

 

And handwaving "just keep them polytuks outta mah forumzez!" is enabling the bad actors like Arch to work in the background, unnoticed and pretend they're "just a lore channel".

[Lord Marshal]

 

It's politics baiting and you know it. 

No, it's not. It's community :cussing service is what it is. People of color and LGBT people deserve to know.

 

And handwaving "just keep them polytuks outta mah forumzez!" is enabling the bad actors like Arch to work in the background, unnoticed and pretend they're "just a lore channel".

 

 

What do they need to know? The vast majority of people don't even know who Arch is, even some people on the thread before it was deleted said they didn't know about him. He's a niche YouTuber in a niche hobby, who's probably only seen his viewcount, subscriber base and support shoot through the roof since places like Reddit and people like you tried putting attention even more attention on him. Ever heard the expression "There's no such thing as bad publicity"?

Edited July 4, 2020 by Lord Marshal

[Panzer]

 

Dude just stop. You can't be this naive. You have to know what you are doing there right now and it's obviously not okay.

Stop what? Trying to get the information out? The information that mods are actively censoring here? Or stop talking about the censorship?

 

Why are you so ok with this?

 

 

Oh don't even go there. Don't try to act innocent while playing the censorship card. You know exactly how the mods think about it and what you were doing. Don't act like the people around you are too stupid to know as well.

[Kastor Krieg]

 

 

Dude just stop. You can't be this naive. You have to know what you are doing there right now and it's obviously not okay.

Stop what? Trying to get the information out? The information that mods are actively censoring here? Or stop talking about the censorship?

 

Why are you so ok with this?

 

 

Oh don't even go there. Don't try to act innocent while playing the censorship card. You know exactly how the mods think about it and what you were doing. Don't act like the people around you are too stupid to know as well.

Would you dare naming what I was doing? Because "you know what WRONG THING you did here" is just a shaming stunt. 

 

No, I don't recognize any wrong done here. Name it and defend that statement or beat it.

[Panzer]

I actually already gave that exact information. Honestly, I don't believe this act of yours. You can't be this ignorant.

[Noctus Cornix]

Brother Tyler probably just referred you to the wrong thing. As per what you were trying to discuss and why you were actively violating the rules, please refer to this rule, found in the Rules of the Bolter and Chainsword thread.

 

 

 

No off topic discussions

We're here to discuss the hobby, not politics, nationalism, religion, sexuality or moral/ethical debates (or cars, or sports, or the latest movie, etc.).

 

 

The discussion you tried to create is both political and moral/ethical in its topic. 

 

Personally, I was through the roof with joy to see Arch get the boot, but it has no place on this forum. It's as simple as that. Let his channel die in anonymity. 

 

Stop trying to pick a fight where it doesn't need to be.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Noctus Cornix

[iandanger]

Wait, but a sig isn’t a discussion or a thread. Seems wildly unnecessary to change someone’s signature

[Kastor Krieg]

Wait, but a sig isn’t a discussion or a thread. Seems wildly unnecessary to change someone’s signature

Yup. Also, statement of fact about a Games Workshop action vs Arch isn't politics, but the "You will not be missed" disclaimer was a huge thread on the forum and was allowed to remain.

 

So, which one is it? 

[Noctus Cornix]

It's actively trying to circumvent the rules by publishing off-topic content onto the forums while not explicitly publishing it yourself in a discussion. Sorry, but I would equate a standardized signature that is added on after every one of your posts to be under that purview.. 

 

 

The 'You will not be missed.' Was an official announcement from Games Workshop. There has been no official statement from Games Workshop concerning Arch. It's really as simple as that.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Noctus Cornix

[Panzer]

It's still content on the same platform and it would still cause the same kind of negativity. If they wanted to keep that content here they would've just locked the thread instead of deleting/hiding it. It's not rocket science.

If I were a mod I'd give you a timeout since you really seem to need to take a breather and come down.

[Lucerne]

First off, I don't think "out of sight and out of mind" is the best way to handle Arch, who's a toxic and actively dangerous influence on the community, even if you do treat dealing with proven bigotry (never mind active malice !) as inherently "political", which you shouldn't. (It comes too close to portraying an unintended "middle ground" where the existence of bigots and their victims are both "equally political") The absence of discourse about a bad faith actor's actions related to the hobby is not being neutral ground, and while Krieg is definitely being unproductively confrontational about it, I can't say I disagree with their root motivations at all.

 

Let's be blunt: a phrasing of "This is not a site where discussion of Arch is welcome" is workable. Not ideal, as said, but workable. I can see a reasoning for it being avoiding promoting a bad faith actor's name recognition, or dealing with the flame wars. That's fine. I can see why there aren't threads about him in general or discussion about him in general.

 

But we're at a point where Arch and his flying monkeys have made themselves a problem for the hobby's future as a whole with their entanglements and the ongoing lawsuits against the bedrock our entire hobby is built on, as well as their attempts to promote a false narrative about both. Their attacks on the hobby- and its parent company- are as close to being proven fact as it's possible to be. It's simply a fact now that Arch is not compatible with the hobby in GW's eyes and with good reason. So in that sense, not allowing Krieg to hold what should be a universally held opinion in their sig is...not a great look?

 

Let's be blunt:

 

"Arch is scum that has no place in the community. He will not be missed." should not be considered controversial or even 'political'. It's flat out the official GW position several times over. I feel like that's a perfectly legitimate statement to make, even taking into account the hypothetical flying monkeys that may well dislike seeing such a factual remark.

 

The presence of vocal Arch defenders in the first place honestly would be a bigger issue for the site than any controversy a statement of fact would cause.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Lucerne

[Panzer]

I don't disagree completely, Lucerne. However discussing Arch by proxy of whether kind of discussion should be allowed is a sure way to get your posts deleted and the thread nuked, so I won't join you there. The mods made their decision and I can understand where they are coming from. There are enough places for such kind of talk. Just open a thread on reddit or Facebook or wherever if you think you have to. 

Edited July 4, 2020 by Panzer

[Kastor Krieg]

Thank you, Lucerne.

I'm being confrontational because I'm one of the people scum like Arch and Arch himself are targetting. I'm one of the people GW stood up for and now I can't talk about it here?
 

I don't disagree completely, Lucerne. However discussing Arch by proxy of whether kind of discussion should be allowed is a sure way to get your posts deleted and the thread nuked, so I won't join you there. The mods made their decision and I can understand where they are coming from. There are enough places for such kind of talk. Just open a thread on reddit or Facebook or wherever if you think you have to. 

You "don't disagree" but then your stance is "mods decided, go elsewhere to talk about it" when Lucerne speaks about how dangerous to the community here it is not to talk about it and that the statement is clearly GW company policy by now?

Uh huh.

[iandanger]

Let's be blunt:

 

"Arch is scum that has no place in the community. He will not be missed." should not be considered controversial or even 'political'. It's flat out the official GW position several times over. I feel like that's a perfectly legitimate statement to make, even taking into account the hypothetical flying monkeys that may well dislike seeing such a factual remark.

 

The presence of vocal Arch defenders in the first place honestly would be a bigger issue for the site than any controversy a statement of fact would cause.

Exactly, trying to maintain a status quo by ignoring a bunch of lurking cryptos seems like a really bad idea. But that seems to be the approach...

[Kastor Krieg]

 

Let's be blunt:

 

"Arch is scum that has no place in the community. He will not be missed." should not be considered controversial or even 'political'. It's flat out the official GW position several times over. I feel like that's a perfectly legitimate statement to make, even taking into account the hypothetical flying monkeys that may well dislike seeing such a factual remark.

 

The presence of vocal Arch defenders in the first place honestly would be a bigger issue for the site than any controversy a statement of fact would cause.

Exactly, trying to maintain a status quo by ignoring a bunch of lurking cryptos seems like a really bad idea. But that seems to be the approach...

 

Staying "neutral" or "middle-ground" or "both sides" is a political choice anyway. And it supports the oppressor instead of the victim.

 

Here it supports Arch instead of POC or LGBT.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Reclusiarch Krieg

[Panzer]

Thank you, Lucerne.

 

I'm being confrontational because I'm one of the people scum like Arch and Arch himself are targetting. I'm one of the people GW stood up for and now I can't talk about it here?

 

I don't disagree completely, Lucerne. However discussing Arch by proxy of whether kind of discussion should be allowed is a sure way to get your posts deleted and the thread nuked, so I won't join you there. The mods made their decision and I can understand where they are coming from. There are enough places for such kind of talk. Just open a thread on reddit or Facebook or wherever if you think you have to. 

You "don't disagree" but then your stance is "mods decided, go elsewhere to talk about it" when Lucerne speaks about how dangerous to the community here it is not to talk about it and that the statement is clearly GW company policy by now?

 

Uh huh.

 

"Not completely" I said. So I do partially disagree. But you know what? I give up. You simply don't want to see where you are wrong and are only interested in making your voice heard no matter how, even if it is by playing the victim. You know what kind of people usually act like that? The ones you say you are so against.

[Lucerne]

To hopefully change the subject a bit to be less personal, would it be accurate to say that linking https://twitter.com/tobylongworth/status/1269318432949927938 in a sig would be acceptable? (Toby Longworth narrating GW's official statement)

Edited July 4, 2020 by Lucerne

[Noctus Cornix]

I'm obviously not a mod, so I can't say with any certainty, but that would be entirely fair and within forum rules. Atleast, if you ask me.

 

Which, to be fair, Krieg already has the 'You will not be missed' in their sig already.

Edited July 4, 2020 by Noctus Cornix

[Panzer]

Agreed.