DW Primaris Bikes

[L30n1d4s]

We will see if these guys indeed get added to the DW codex and, if they do, they are eligible to go up to squads of 6 models (like Aggressors and Inceptors are able to do).

 

If both of these things are true, then combined with Special Issue Ammo, DW Primaris Bikers ought to be a force to be reckoned with:

 

-14" move base, option to turbobost another 6"

 

-24 x T5 3+ save wounds with the option to use Transhuman Physiology to shrug off 50% of all wounds, even S10+ weapons

 

-Up to 24 shots with SIA/Tactical Doctrine on per shooting phase, with AP-4 at 12", AP-3 at 18", and AP-2 Hellfire shells at 15"

 

-37 x S4 AP-1 attacks on the charge (becomes AP-2 in the Assault Doctrine); can fight twice with Honour Your Brothers Stratagem for a net 74 attacks, if necessary

 

-Re-rolls of 1s to Wound against a FOC type of your choice, plus the ability to use a 2CP Strat to also add +1 to wound when targetting a unit of that FOC type for a phase (i.e. Vengeance shells would be wounding Marines on 3+s, re-rolling 1s, and ignoring their armor completely with AP-4)

 

-Can use a nearby Deep Striking Watch Master to gain rerolls in both shooting and melee and even flexible Mission Tactics options with the Tome of Ectoclades relic

 

-Can use Primaris Biker Chaplain (presuming they get it) to improve shooting, melee, charge range, or MW protection via his Litanies

 

Overall, I think these guys will be very solid choices once combined with all the other rules/synergies that DW have to offer.

Edited July 6, 2020 by L30n1d4s

[Qui-Gon]

Your AP Calculations are wrong for the shooting since the rounds each have a hard limit on what the AP of the round can be. We do not know if Tactical doctrine is on top of or is in included in the AP modifier maximum.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

I'm more concerned if we also get a option for captain on bike and if so, suddenly bane bolts just got a whole lot nastier...

[Black Knight]

We still do not know for sure if bikes will go upto six in a squad, they seem to want to limit big models to three per group in some cases(Suppressors) and six in others.

[Master Sheol]

We still do not know for sure if bikes will go upto six in a squad, they seem to want to limit big models to three per group in some cases(Suppressors) and six in others.

Suppressors are limited to 3 fixed cause there is no multipose kit (thet still are a monopose unit out from Shadowspear)

Eliminators are fixed to 3 men for no logical reason

But Inceptors that were fixed 3 men squads in Dark Imperium became 3-6 when the SM Codex and multipart kit came out

 

So we must wait to know if Outriders will be fixed 3 men or 3-6 men

[leth]

If we get them I would most likely take them in a primaris squad and then combat squad them(depending on rules) into something like @ 5 man unit, or a 4 with one inceptor. Keep em infantry, objective secured, etc. 

[Trokair]

I really hope we get the bikes, the chaplain on bike, a captain on bike and the buggy (attack bike equivalent). If so I am going to do a 1000p rapid response force with them.

 

I would finally get to do a bike themed army and combine it with Deathwatch!

[Gederas]

We still do not know for sure if bikes will go upto six in a squad, they seem to want to limit big models to three per group in some cases(Suppressors) and six in others.

Suppressors are limited to 3 fixed cause there is no multipose kit (thet still are a monopose unit out from Shadowspear)

Eliminators are fixed to 3 men for no logical reason

But Inceptors that were fixed 3 men squads in Dark Imperium became 3-6 when the SM Codex and multipart kit came out

 

So we must wait to know if Outriders will be fixed 3 men or 3-6 men

Eliminators are fixed at 3-man squads because the rules writers said they'd be ridiculously busted if there was 6 in a squad.

[leth]

Eliminators getting twice the buffs from stratagems etc? Ugh. 
 

the more I look at the missions The more I see something like bikes or primaris bikes as a hugely important unit to have in the army, especially to back up transports. 
 

so much of the game is going to be taking and surviving early and quick. We will have to be SUPER careful with how much we put in reserves going forward since you need to be scoring from the start of turn 2. 

[Daynga-Zone]

Agreed that the bikes look like one of the best units to play the mission/objectives in 9th. Durable, fast moving with decent firepower and melee. If we can combat squad them making them troops that’s just icing on the cake. Removing them is a pain and they’ll be good for grabbing opponents objectives later on.

 

Our +1 to wound strat combined with their massed attacks on the charge and AP -1 will do a lot of work against a variety of targets.

 

My only problem with them is that I’m not a huge fan of their aesthetics. That said, I ordered some cheap storm raven intake bits off of eBay. With some grav plate bits and super short flying stems I’ll have some sweet primaris jet/grav bikes.

[leth]

Those sound sweet, I hope you post some pictures later. 
 

I actually like the ascetics of them and see them as a worthy successor to the regular bikes(I bought like 15 recon bikes because I didn’t like the out of date ones). I can really see desthwatch having a lot of options and versatility if they get all the new models. It really depends on how they make our kill teams for the full breakdown. I am just sad I only got 1 since I can probably see myself using 5-5 bikes in my list, 

[ashc]

Honestly the outrider bikes look like such a good choice I think they may have completely superceded the firstborn ones, who's main draw now are maybe power weapons and a teleport homer? Edited July 13, 2020 by ashc

[leth]

Point per wound aren’t the primaris and regular bikes pretty similar? 

[Mobius0288]

We're deathwatch and we love to shoot our special issue ammo... so here's my thought for a comparison.

 

3 Bikers (Sgt has storm bolter and chainsword) (87 pts) - max 6 models

*2 wounds per model

*8 rapid fire shots

*+1 for shock assault, +1 for chainswords = 4+4+5 = 13 attacks (0 AP)

*Can be combat squad'd for objective secure if 5 models

*EDIT: If combat squad'd, they can fall back and charge according to the special rule in Vet kill team

 

--vs--

 

3 Outriders (ALL have bolt pistol and astartes chainsword) (135 pts) - max 3 models

*4 wounds per model

*6 rapid fire shots

*SIA capable according to DW codex? Don't think so...?

*+2 attacks on the charge, +1 for shock assault, +1 for chainswords = 6+6+7 = 19 attacks (-1 AP)

 

You could still put a storm shield on the Sgt but if you burn him early, you lose the Sgt weapon with him. Outriders do not have veteran stats yet so we have to use the basic datasheet in the meantime. You should also consider tactical and assault doctrines since we maintain the old doctrine rules and tactical flexibility stratagem (as proven by DW FAQ).

 

Did I miss any key points? Outriders even seem like an interesting deep strike choice.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Mobius0288

[ashc]

The Outriders bolt pistols are actually heavy bolt pistols, and benefit from SIA.

 

The outrider bikes have twin bolt rifles which RAW do not benefit from SIA unless FAQd on release for us, although I don't see why they wouldn't have it.

 

Standard bikes can take a teleport homer.

Edited July 16, 2020 by ashc

[Mobius0288]

Ya the teleport homer is definitely an important consideration as that is the only "fall back and shoot" ability left in the game, in a manner of speaking.

[Prot]

Honestly the outrider bikes look like such a good choice I think they may have completely superceded the firstborn ones, who's main draw now are maybe power weapons and a teleport homer?

 

I have played them in 9th and I actually don't find that to be the case. The old school bikers carry a Hammer, and a multimelta, and have ablative wounds in between, meanwhile their massed shooting really isn't that bad. 

 

The locked in Outrider squad of 3 (for the time being) doesn't help their case either.

[ashc]

 

 

Honestly the outrider bikes look like such a good choice I think they may have completely superceded the firstborn ones, who's main draw now are maybe power weapons and a teleport homer?

I have played them in 9th and I actually don't find that to be the case. The old school bikers carry a Hammer, and a multimelta, and have ablative wounds in between, meanwhile their massed shooting really isn't that bad.

 

The locked in Outrider squad of 3 (for the time being) doesn't help their case either.

Are you discussing codex chapter bike squads there though, Prot? - Deathwatch can't have a multimelta, unless you meant combimelta?

 

The more I look I think both squads have their place for different things. The Outriders are a very blunt hammer, whilst the standard bikes come across a more tactical scalpel due to their options but relative fragility.

[Prot]

I think the new bikes are okay, but I haven’t had a game yet where they don’t get in trouble too early. That’s partially my fault but I also miss the inherent flexibility of the old bikes. 
 

I guess there’s a use for the. I suspect they won’t really get good though until a full kit comes out and their rules change. 

[leth]

For me the. NEw bikes are down to how they fit into kill teams. If they can get OS and infantry! That’s gonna be huge. 

[Lemondish]

I think the new bikes are okay, but I haven’t had a game yet where they don’t get in trouble too early. That’s partially my fault but I also miss the inherent flexibility of the old bikes.

 

I guess there’s a use for the. I suspect they won’t really get good though until a full kit comes out and their rules change.

I know that I want the new buggy to be able to join with them for some protection and to emulate the current bike squad, but I imagine they'll simply be a separate unit, making it much harder to fit into lists.

 

But I definitely need more than just the 3 to make an impact I feel. Were you just using 3?

Edited July 19, 2020 by Lemondish

[Prot]

Well I should clarify that I have been playing the multi bike squads with White Scars. So while I was playing multiple squads of 'bikes', in truth it was a very hard hitting old school bike squad with a hammer and Multi Melta, and the other squad was the new Outriders, and since they are locked at 3 models for the time being, that's all I used.

 

Good catch on the new buggy. I suppose it's possible it goes wit the Outriders in squad composition eventually? I sure hope so because it will add so much value to those Outriders!

 

What I found in all of my Marine test games so far is the Outriders just kind of harass something and they don't provide enough punch to really do much more right now. However as usual Poison rounds definitely increases potential, but in every other game, I got far more value out of the old school bike squad, and my opponents (rightly) feared that old school more than the outriders. 

[leth]

I think the small old school bikes will be better as harass/scoring units, shooting/charging weaker small scoring units that our opponents have. 
 

I think the primaris bikes, with a supporting chaplain, are meant to be the hammer that you use to get on your opponents objective, take, and then survive until the next turn. 

 

Ugh, it is so hard to plan without knowing how they fit into kill teams, if at all. We will have to see. I will enjoy taking the time to brainstorm while I hack off every single shoulderpad I. The Indomitus set. 
 

I can 100% imagine them doing somehing lazy like making everything in the starter box a kill team though -_-

[ashc]

I actually think making them rules as a kill team is more complicated and therefore less likely than just putting the units as-is as Deathwatch options.

[Lemondish]

I think the small old school bikes will be better as harass/scoring units, shooting/charging weaker small scoring units that our opponents have.

 

I think the primaris bikes, with a supporting chaplain, are meant to be the hammer that you use to get on your opponents objective, take, and then survive until the next turn.

 

Ugh, it is so hard to plan without knowing how they fit into kill teams, if at all. We will have to see. I will enjoy taking the time to brainstorm while I hack off every single shoulderpad I. The Indomitus set.

 

I can 100% imagine them doing somehing lazy like making everything in the starter box a kill team though

If making a whole new kill team is lazy, I really wonder what effort is supposed to look like!

 

We'll simply be provided access to the units themselves with a keyword swap from CHAPTER to DEATHWATCH. That, in my eyes, is the real lazy option

 

Oh, and they'll neglect to include twin bolt rifles to the SIA list for a little while.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Lemondish