Genestealer cults and 9:ed

[Ulfast]

So, 9:ed is coming (or allready here), what do you tihnk this will do for our army? So far I have seen a lot of gloom and negative things for GSC armies but is that true? I think some things will change but also it could open up new possiblities. I´m for one happy to see that all our vechilies will hit on 4+! A small thing but still an upgrade for us. What do you other think about the coming edition for GSC? 

[Rogue]

I think there are a lot of positives.

 

Overwatch is less effective than it was, and although it only costs 1CP, it might still be CPs that people don't want to spend, or can't then spend on something else (like interrupting combat, for example).

 

We gain the chance to hit people when they fall back (and someone did the maths to show that because it jumps straight to mortal wounds, it can be more effective than you think).

 

Smaller tables help - the deployment gap is the same, but there's less deployment zone to hide in. Hammer and Anvil deployment is less scary than it used to be.

 

And the reordering of the combat phase is helpful too. Ideally, we're launching charges in our turn, meaning that all our units still hit first. Then, in the enemy turn, one of our units gets to hit again before any of those units we just charged. (True, the enemy charging units still go first, but engaging more enemy models in combat is usually a good thing for us anyway, so that mitigates it a bit.)

[brother_b]

I’m glad this post popped up. I have a small force of GSC I’m working on at the moment.

 

Some things I’ve been pondering:

 

I wanted large blobs of infantry but am scared of the blast weapons, obviously the way things should be, no complaints there. How do I mitigate the impact if I want 20 man unit is of neophytes or acolytes?

 

Cost per mini going up. Or so it’s been said. Our abberants already took a hit. I hope that gets sorted out and they don’t go up in price again.

 

Smaller board size and deployment vs. units that shut down deployment within 12”. This has already been an issue. I hope the smaller table doesn’t exacerbate the impact of those units (looking at your SM unit that has this ability).

 

Better shooting for ridge runners. I can’t complain, I need to add some.

 

That’s what I've mostly been pondering. I didn’t even bother with our PA as I heard it was one of the worst.

[Rogue]

PA did contain a 1CP stratagem that allows acolytes to advance and charge. Incredibly useful (and another 1CP one that lets the Magus cast a second power, which I like).

 

I've started playing around with Twisted Helix, and having units that can move 6", advance another 3-8" and then charge is presenting headaches for my opponents.

 

If I had enough acolytes, I'd run multiple big squads. True, blast will thin them a little, but I don't need to commit to which one gets the stratagem until I need it, so if one group gets targeted, I'd be able to switch to another. Plus I run genestealers for another advance/charge threat.

 

And that's my suggesting regarding blast - saturation. And good use of cover. With the extra speed (via Helix), we can afford to hug terrain, move a little less turn one maybe, and still spring out turn two and land charges.

 

I can't say I'm too worried about a point increase. If they go up for everyone, we don't lose anything.

Edited July 8, 2020 by Rogue

[Are Verlo]

The coherency rules for 9th ed will hopefully make ambushes better. It will be much harder to complete block out all ambushers with conga lines gone.

[Rogue]

On the other hand, it might make it trickier to trail a few models back to stay within the aura of any buffing characters who drop in as part of the ambush, like a Primus.

 

The Alien Majesty warlord trait might become even more useful.

[Ulfast]

I love all your ideas. I can´t right now put up something myself (don´t have any ideas right now) but what you are talking about is really turning the wheels in my head. That´s great. I think we still can be a force to fear in the far future :)

[Rogue]

Protecting characters is going to become an issue for us, I think. All characters are becoming easier to target, but ours do an awful lot of work in buffing unit effectiveness, and losing them will hurt multiple units each time.

 

Fortunately, we have Unquestioning Loyalty, so positioning correctly for that to kick in is going to become increasingly important. But it'll still be tricky to pull it off if units make it into combat and characters don't, leaving them stranded in too much space.

[Ulfast]

You are totally right Rogue. But luckly I feel we are one of the few (perhaps only) that actually have an easier way to get around it. It´s not 100% but still make it a bit easier which feels good. But all for all I see that we no longer can leave a corvus or nexus in the back field without a small unit of neophytes to protect them.  Indirect fire will become very important and I´m allready desided to buy some mortars for my cult. Charactersnipers as I would call them from now ;)

[Lord Marshal]

Most of what's there is negative. Coherency is going to be an issue on terrain heavy boards when Acolytes are on larger bases. Said Acolyte spam is going to be less effective as well owing to Blast Rules and the like, although I never knew 'that' many people outside of tournaments who ran them that way owing to the real world cost.

 

Sanctus' probably took a big hit from the targeting rules since they usually appeared somewhere with good LOS, away from other units. I don't think other characters will be 'that' effected owing to them usually being amidst other units anyway.

 

Amulet of the Voidwyrm won't necessarily be an auto-include on the Patriatch anymore, although it'll probably still be the most popular.

 

Ridgerunner spam is going to be even better owing to the changes to heavy weapons. Rockgrinders being able to shoot into combat is good.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Lord Marshal

[Rogue]

I've also seen some chatter about taking objectives. With there now being the need to move onto an objective and survive until you can claim it in the command phase, using transports as ablative wounds might be more of a thing.

 

So suddenly those rock grinders are firing more effectively, firing into combat (where they don't mind being, with the huge death-roller on the front), and can carry a squad to jump and and retain the objective if they do go down.

[Ulfast]

I thinking that before we used two untis of 15 acolytes and in 9:ed I think that three units of 10 is better. Smaller target, easier to control objectives and at the same time not so many can die at once. What do you think?

[Are Verlo]

I thinking that before we used two untis of 15 acolytes and in 9:ed I think that three units of 10 is better. Smaller target, easier to control objectives and at the same time not so many can die at once. What do you think?

That depends completely on the rest of your army. For controling objectives I’d go with some neophytes as well.

 

Using transports? If so 10 man units are ok. How many cc units do you ambush? Only one perfect ambush per turn, so if you run aberrants they need to use perfect ambush.

[Rogue]

I agree with 'It depends'. There will be circumstances where advancing and charging a unit of 20 acolytes with primus, icon and multiple rock saws will take such a chunk out of your opponents line that you seize control of the initiative completely as they have to deal with the mess.

 

But at other times, multiple small squads making use of cover and the lack of overwatch to stall enemy movement and gang up on exposed units will be a better option.

 

Ambush tactics, such as perfect ambush, lying in wait, the advance and charge one, that sort of thing, benefit from big squads striking on the turn they deploy. In this case, go for a full 20, and then a 10.

 

But the more subtle approach suits the smaller squads. Less hitting power, true; but nothing stops you running two 5s next to each other, or squads teaming up, then splitting to deal with the next targets. In which case, you could run 30 acolytes as six squads of 5.

[brother_b]

I’m more concerned with how to hold onto objectives. Our infantry dies so easily. Any ideas?

[Ulfast]

To hold objectives, specially in the back of the tabletop I would go for two units. As we have so cheap units I think having two so they have to split fire is one tactic to use.

[Rogue]

We have that stratagem that allows a unit in cover to not be targetable unless they're closest, which might be useful for objective holders.

 

Also, the new rules are (I think), that you only need to be within 3" of the objective marker now, rather than within 3" of the centre of the marker. With 40mm markers, that means another inch to play with, and may make it easier to hide units out of site but still near enough to claim the objective.

[Ulfast]

This is one of the things I like with the cult. We need to be sneaky to win. And we got some good tools to be just that and it´s real fun when it happends. 

[Rogue]

Exactly. It feels like the obvious reading of the Cult is that we're fast and combat orientated, so we should dash up the table and smash faces as quickly as possible. And that can be a valuable option, and is always a useful threat.

 

But I think we have more success leaning into a tricksier play-style, making use of hit and run, ganging up, shifting the point of attack, all that sort of thing. And not just in deployment.

[brother_b]

Well the new points adjustments got leaked, and according to a Goonhammer review (I like their reviews and analysis, they're very good) GSC came out as the worst faction.

 

That is dismaying... an army that previously cost 2000 points now costs something like 2400 points. Aberrants went up in price again, also.

 

It's looking like 9th is going to be tough. I'll wait to see their thorough GSC specific evaluation when it comes out.

[Fajita Fan]

Well the new points adjustments got leaked, and according to a Goonhammer review (I like their reviews and analysis, they're very good) GSC came out as the worst faction.

 

That is dismaying... an army that previously cost 2000 points now costs something like 2400 points. Aberrants went up in price again, also.

 

It's looking like 9th is going to be tough. I'll wait to see their thorough GSC specific evaluation when it comes out.

I kinda think most players look at their changes each codex and cry nerf, if everyone is doing it then hopefully the glass ceiling hits us all equally.

 

I never started a GSC army to be competitive, only to have an annoying horde army and be something I can quickly paint to low standards. I bought a ton of easy to build acolytes and neophytes off eBay when the Deathwatch game was around so I have infantry for days that I might never get to field now that points up.

 

I will also never get over the idea that Chimeras cannot transport anything but IG troops, I bought two before that change just for bigger units of abberants. I simply don’t understand changes like this, Chimeras made transporting some units much more viable.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Fajita Fan

[Ulfast]

Yes, the points is thought but remeber, in the begining of 8:ed we had the same problem. Last army to get an update to the index but when we got it was good and we became one of the better armies. I think that will happend again. 

 

I agreee with Fajita Fan that my GSC are for fun and to be diffrent from everyone else. In my club most players play some kind of space marine. It´s geting boring after a while and GSC is everything a space marine army is not. Its challenge but when I win, thats so much better :)

[brother_b]

I am all for fun, this is a fun army to me, just like all my armies are. I play competitive, but not win at all costs. All I want is a chance to pilot my army to victory. If there’s no chance, that takes a little of the fun out of it.

[Fajita Fan]

I believe this army is all about steering mobs of demo charge acolytes at an opponent’s juiciest units while using a Broodlord and genestealers to eat his troops. I never imagined GSC would be an army that wins by tabling an opponent through combat resolution, this army has to win via objectives or denying the opponent victory points. 

 

In the end remember, we’re just the vanguard for a Tyranid invasion. If we lose a 2000 point battle the swarm will win the war anyway if we inflict enough damage. 

[Rogue]

Even on a good day, the Cult is three steps forward, two steps back. We swing big, and can do a lot of damage, but then almost always take a lot of damage in return because our units are so fragile. Winning means hitting so hard that the return punch is sufficiently diminished as to leave us still ahead each time. Edited July 14, 2020 by Rogue