How do Sisters "actually" play?

[Indefragable]

One of the things I find both fascinating and frustrating about 40k is how the fluff and crunch match up or not. 

 

Aside from the Miracle Dice mechanic, how do Adeptas Sororitas actually play on the tabletop?

 

I think we've all experienced visions of a faction doing something like in the lore pics only to find that to last more than 1 Turn on the board you have to go a completely different direction. Picturing Sisters purging all with flame, only to find that most people just spam Exorcists or such. 

 

Granted, one should not always chase the meta or net lists, but I've played this game far too long to know all to well the sorrow of not researching what "actually" works in the game before putting together a force. 

 

I've been kicking around the idea of Sisters for sometime, so I'm progressing to the research phase. 

 

Note: we are on the cusp of a new edition that will alter things, so I ask about the experience of 8th for reference sake. 

[A.T.]

Sisters haven't really been all purging with flame since the 5e witch hunters codex was replaced. Actually for all of their holy trinity stuff they don't have anything remarkable these days with bolters, flamers, or meltas - a 12" range vehicle mounted twin linked heavy flamer with absolutely no buffing opions is the sisters 'big trinity gun'.

 

They are more of a trade-off army with either something that hits reasonably hard for its cost and then dies, or which tries to absorb damage while dying in a way that is inefficient for the opponent. The general lack of options and high value specialist units, combined with a relatively few number of players can also make target selection against them difficult when you come loaded for 4-5 wound all singing all dancing primaris untis and end up shooting at small groups of T3 1W models sheltering a single meltagun.

 

Exorcist spam is a combination of being literally the only long range choice for a faction that lost their alternative (scouting dominions) and unbuffed bolter/flamer/melta being very pedestrian by 8e standards. While the sisters can look to put a bit of extra punch into their infantry weapons the restrictions and randomness of faith often limit this.

 

 

In terms of putting together a force you will have to wait for 9th. Generally though there are so few sisters units with so much shared that your actual choices pretty much boil down to which out of three heavy/special weapons to pick - they may be new models but the unit selection is still very much 'start of 3rd edition' in scale, and ultimately no matter how you end up playing them you'll still be needing to take most of the same units.

[Charlo]

It's a slim codex by nature. If it ain't broke don't fix it, ya know? It's kinda like playing 3rd ed Marines in terms of options... But probably even less.

 

Theres basically two major routes though:

 

Don't Die: Valourous Heart with Imigifiers. Stand in cover with a 2+ save until AP-3 starts hitting you, then it's a 5+ save with a 6+FNP. You can even bring your own cover for a few points! Junith Eruita + Celestine can pal around to give you a 4++ and never die HARDER. Advance as a blob and shoot what you can. 9th ed will probably favour this a lot.

 

Rip 'n' Tear: Bloody Rose with all the combat units. Run forward and hope for the best. Outside of things like Custodes, Blood Angels and Harlequins you'll be able to out-melee a lot of other armies. Shock Assault makes Marines scarier but you just need to hit first. The book has LOADS of melee buffs which is what makes this viable. 9th ed cover will only help it.

 

Add in some Exorcists because it's the only thing that can really reach out and touch someone in the list and theres your playstyle!

 

I know for 9th ed i'm definately going to be looking at Immolators though. Run them in, shoot in combat still then blow them up for 1CP. Fun times!

[Raven1]

Becuase the 9e board is small, I have thought about taking executioners out of the list, though that might just be a crazy fantasy since they are pretty good and can be reserved if you want.

 

A.T. sound pretty disparaging regarding the army, but it had been doing pretty good at Tournaments in the short amount of time between the codex release and COVID-19. The biggest I think holding them back is lack of armies in players hands more than any design mechanic.

 

Once playing returns to a normal level and boxes like Battle Sisters are back in stock I think Sisters will start to do really well.

[Indefragable]

Thanks all for the replies. Will have to mull things over a bit more. 

[A.T.]

A.T. sound pretty disparaging regarding the army, but it had been doing pretty good at Tournaments in the short amount of time between the codex release and COVID-19. The biggest I think holding them back is lack of armies in players hands more than any design mechanic.

 

I wasn't trying to be disparaging. Unclear/inefficient unit trades are a strength of the faction.

 

The highest pure sisters finish would be Matt Robertsons repentia/zephrim rush list IIRC, 2nd place at glasshammer 2020. Was quite a new look for the sisters.

[Indefragable]

 

A.T. sound pretty disparaging regarding the army, but it had been doing pretty good at Tournaments in the short amount of time between the codex release and COVID-19. The biggest I think holding them back is lack of armies in players hands more than any design mechanic.

 

I wasn't trying to be disparaging. Unclear/inefficient unit trades are a strength of the faction.

 

The highest pure sisters finish would be Matt Robertsons repentia/zephrim rush list IIRC, 2nd place at glasshammer 2020. Was quite a new look for the sisters.

 

 

High stakes Live-Stream level tournaments are a poor gauge for the hobby in general. That's not a knock on them or their players, but it's like trying to use the same tires as a Formula One car for the Prius you put-put to the grocery store. 

 

...that being said, it's precisely the point I am referring to where one's mental image of Sisters is X yet the "best" way to play them is Sigma Alpha Ceti B12. 

[Montford]

One of the things I find both fascinating and frustrating about 40k is how the fluff and crunch match up or not. 

 

Aside from the Miracle Dice mechanic, how do Adeptas Sororitas actually play on the tabletop?

 

I think we've all experienced visions of a faction doing something like in the lore pics only to find that to last more than 1 Turn on the board you have to go a completely different direction. Picturing Sisters purging all with flame, only to find that most people just spam Exorcists or such. 

 

Granted, one should not always chase the meta or net lists, but I've played this game far too long to know all to well the sorrow of not researching what "actually" works in the game before putting together a force. 

 

I've been kicking around the idea of Sisters for sometime, so I'm progressing to the research phase. 

 

Note: we are on the cusp of a new edition that will alter things, so I ask about the experience of 8th for reference sake. 

 

Just from my view this is how our army plays:

 

-We are an army that loves hugging cover

 

-We are an Army that, mostly, wants its infantry within 12 inches of the enemy but never wants to melee (for rapid fire on bolt guns)

 

-We are an army that plays its top tank just like a WWII tank destroyer- pick a spot, stay back and kill from long range

 

-We are an army that, despite being T3, has a remarkable ability to endure on the battlefield

 

-We are an army that may have the most annoying vehicle for less than 120 points: the Immolator with Immolation Flamers, moving 13-18 inches per turn with a pair of 12 inch range Assault Heavy Flamers. Kill it and a squad pops out with a melta gun to punch something expensive at short range ;)

[dracpanzer]

I still run VH mech Sisters with Repressors. Move fast, keep moving, get close and overload the close range gunfight. Losing the SB Superior to legends kind of hurt, currently running them with a condemnor, inferno pistol and chain sword. Two of those in a Repressor with four stormbolters i side is really nice when you have three of them.

 

Still have changes coming from 9th. The condemnor looks like its getting a huge increase, may have to cut them loose. Repentia seem like they will like the overwatch change. I had given up on running them OoBR before covid. They work well for me in three girl squads tucked in a Repressor with SB Doms.

 

So much better than the Betadex and I for one won't be affected in the least by 9ed changes. Apart from points anyways. If the Repressor can dodge the Legends hellhole, I'm golden.

[A.T.]

The condemnor looks like its getting a huge increase, may have to cut them loose

I have to assume the condemnor is getting a rules change if it is, because they are barely worth 1 point right now.

[Dread]

It's funny, before covid, in over a year of playing against ad mech and salamanders and loosing pretty much every game with my csm, necrons, craftworld, DE and harlis, the few games I got in with my sisters ended with me being the victor. Love this army, the rules, finally, are solid with a few blips but the main question I have to ask is "why wouldn't you take 3 exorcists?"

[dracpanzer]

 

The condemnor looks like its getting a huge increase, may have to cut them loose

 

I have to assume the condemnor is getting a rules change if it is, because they are barely worth 1 point right now.

I get some use out of them depending on my opponent. My list leaves me (it did anyways) 6 points to spare and six BSS superiors with inferno pistols. I also have the metal models converted up, so its no big deal.

 

Them going up to 5 pts is a headscratcher. Like you said, mostly useless now, without something new maybe to how perils works I see no point in them.

[ThePenitentOne]

Full disclosure: I don't have a whole lot of actual game experience under my belt with this dex, so take me with a grain of salt.

 

So let me tell you about my two favourite "moves."

 

I really like the the idea of maximizing faith- there are a lot of ways to do this- strats, WL Traits, Order abilities, etc.

 

So if you've got a couple sixes saved up, it's really nice to drop in a unit of seraphim with two sisters sporting Inferno Pistols and Plasma for the superior using Deadly descent, which adds 6" to pistol weapons and lets you shoot as if it was the shooting phase. So that's 4 melta, 1 plasma, and 4 bolt pistols. Then in your shooting phase, hit it again; no melta this time, but you still get 4 bolt pistols and plasma.

 

Now if you're Bloody Rose (and my Seraphim always are), all pistols are + 1 AP. And of course, you want to use a 6 for one of the melta damage rolls.

 

If whatever you were targeting isn't yet dead, Bloody Rose also gives you +1 attack when you charge; still not fantastic for Seraphim; it's only 11 attacks, but it's better than sitting around for the counter attack; they do have 5+ invulnerable.

 

If you're playing mono-faction Rites can augment that in a number of ways- an extra AP for shooting, exploding sixes on melee, or +1 on the charge roll.

 

Zephyrim also Skystike, and they are better at charges and melee. Dropping them down WITH the seraphim is sweet if you can drop them in such a way that they can use their charge to support the seraphim or attack a different enemy, you'll be able to support if you have to, but you'll have another target if the Seraphim are enough on their own.

 

Anyway, probably my favourite move.

[Maschinenpriester]

Them going up to 5 pts is a headscratcher. Like you said, mostly useless now, without something new maybe to how perils works I see no point in them.

Where is that info from has there been non astartes points leaks?

Edited July 9, 2020 by Maschinenpriester

[dracpanzer]

I may be remembering it wrong. Got the info from the Sisters tactics thread on dakka. Edited July 10, 2020 by dracpanzer

[Montford]

I know that many Sisters players fill out their Troops squads with Stormbolers for Special / Heavy weapons choices; that is very low in points. However I always bring a melta and a flamer (sometimes that melta is a combi on the Superior) because its just always so useful for me. I did that even before we got the Holy Trinity stratagem.

[ThePenitentOne]

I know that many Sisters players fill out their Troops squads with Stormbolers for Special / Heavy weapons choices; that is very low in points. However I always bring a melta and a flamer (sometimes that melta is a combi on the Superior) because its just always so useful for me. I did that even before we got the Holy Trinity stratagem.

 

Yeah, I've seen a lot of people take SBs in BSS squads; I never do, because I like to pack Doms with SBs to maximize the impact of Blessed Bolts.

 

And a melta on overwatch with a couple of 6's in the MD pool does discourage certain types of charges. A heavy flamer, by virtue of autohits, doesn't behave as most heavy weapons do, and it tends to discourage other types of charges.

 

Trinity is the icing on that cake.

[CaptainMarsh]

I tend to play the Sisters with an emphasis on a good tide of bodies backed up with defensive quality. Main hammer has been coming with Mortifiers/Seraphim/Zephyrm, long-range by the Exorcists. My rate of play has cratered these past few months for obvious reasons but it has been fun to play and effective to boot.

[Atrus]

Ive always favoured having my girls be very in your face. Exorcsist up back for ranged, everything else in immos tearing up the field. All my squads are equipped with the holy trinity with exception of a Celestian squad with storm bolters for fluff and model reasons.

[Indefragable]

Thanks again to everyone for the input. 
 

Which Order best makes use of the holy trinity (flamer, melta, bolter)? If there is one? Or if purely for crunch and aesthetics and such don’t matter, just go for buffs on Acts of Faith since they are the sauce for the faction?

[Atrus]

Ebon Chalice has a nice strat to have their flamers in a unit do max hits. They also have the ability to discard a miracle dice to turn another one into a 6- very good if you reliably roll garbage.

 

Edit: their warlord trait also has you start your first miracle dice for the game as a 6 and you gain d3 CP at start of game.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Atrus

[Montford]

As Atrus said Ebon Chalice is a good choice, as is Valorous Heart; they have a stratagem which permits a Unit to ignore all to-hit modifiers when it shoots. That could help Holy Trinity. It also turns Exorcists into extremely nasty anti-flyer weapons

[Charlo]

Thanks again to everyone for the input. 

 

Which Order best makes use of the holy trinity (flamer, melta, bolter)? If there is one? Or if purely for crunch and aesthetics and such don’t matter, just go for buffs on Acts of Faith since they are the sauce for the faction?

 

To be honest its a fluffy yet... Pretty weak stratagem. The weapons getting the most use out of it are almost always bolters (being the most shots), so enjoy wounding things like marines on a 3+ with no AP... I guess?

 

That said, there are some cheeky tricks...

 

Dominions with three Storm Bolters, a Melta Gun and a Combi-Flamer Superior can benefit from a lot of extra shots (and with the way 9th ed wound allocation works, some shenanigans may be had with the Melta?)

 

Retributors with Multi-Meltas and a Combi-Flamer Superior - Melta wounding T8 on a 3+ is pretty nice bit you need to be within 8"!

[ValourousHeart]

There was a very interesting build sisters could do previously, that I'm interested in trying again at some point.

It was a list based on our unhinged units (Arcos, PE, and priests), so not technically sisters.

 

Could be fun to run as a Spearhead detachment.

 

1 Missionary

2 Priest

3 x 4 Penitent Engines

2 x 4 Mortifiers

10 x 5 Arco Flagellants

 

That should be close to 100 power and 2000 points.

 

And nothing over 5 man units, so no blast shenanigans.

[Indefragable]

I'm liking the idea of Retributors with heavy flamers. That fits the idea of a Purgation operation that fits my head with what Sisters are all about. 

 

Dominions with 4x storm bolters as chaff clearers/dedicated dakka deliverers. 

 

Then.......Celestians with meltas? AT seems lacking beyond the exorcist. 

 

I'm less drawn to Repentia from a personal taste perspective, and as a BA guy Zeraphim/Seraphim are a bit been-there-done-that to me, but I know they are potentially vital to a Sisters army.