Misty varnish

[lhg033]

Hi,

 

So I've never really varnished my models before but now I'm using contrast paints and seeing how they just rubbed off a bit on one of my test models that I'd put in a foam case I thought I'd better start.

 

I've just varnished a load of orks with munitorium varnish and going past them 10 minutes after I can see they are going a bit white in quite a few places. I deliberately shook the can for plenty of time and was at a similar distance to priming etc. Not to hot/cold while doing it etc. so i'm not sure why it has happened.

Is there any hope of recovering them? I've read a few things about using oil and scrubbing them or applying another coat of varnish to smooth out this coat but I dont know if these actually work in practice.

[Fajita Fan]

This is what I’m terrified of after I have stuff ready for varnish, especially contrasts. A GW staffer told me (grab your salt) that their new varnish works great even in humidity. Can anyone confirm? I have an aversion to GW’s high priced rattle cans.

[lhg033]

not to spook you but this is the new varnish in a can

[Rik Lightstar]

No spray varnish works "well" in high humidity, some are just less bad.

 

Thin coats will also help to reduce the misting as long as you let them dry completely before applying the next one.

 

Rik

[Fajita Fan]

Oh is that what it’s called now? Yikes, he told me it’s good. Edited July 9, 2020 by Fajita Fan

[m_r_parker]

I've heard (but not tried) that a quick coat of Lahmian Medium over the varnish should help to take the edge of the fogging. Worst case scenario is nothing happens and you have to try something else, but worth a shout if nothing else.

[Lord Marshal]

Oh is that what it’s called now? Yikes, he told me it’s good.

Never believe GW staffers trying to push a sale. I got told the new Underworlds case is bigger than the last one and my scepticism proved correct in that it was identical to the last. More to the point, GW products are usually of a middle-tier quality (if not worse) for prices that're roughly 50% higher than their better equivalents.

 

Anyway, horror stories about Munitorum Varnish frosting up in temperate conditions aren't uncommon. Best advice I could give is go further away with very quick passes but if you want to be safe I'd just bin it and buy an alternative like Testors Dullcote if it's a matte finish you want.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Lord Marshal

[MegaVolt87]

Tip the can upside down and give it a few sprays, clears the semi dry stuff and stops the frosting that can happen. Shake well. 

[CMDR_Welles]

I brush varnish for this very reason. I ruined 20 models once when I last tried to spray seal. Stripping down some of your best painted work because they frosted was not fun...

 

I'm using Vallejo Gloss as the initial layer. I then do one or two coats of Army Painter Matte sealer to knock the gloss off.

[Quantum]

I had an issue with an older can of citadel varnish spay, that completely fogged up my models.

 

However, someone on this forum gave me the tip of using... olive oil!

 

So I covered them in olive oil, let it soak for an hour or so, them began brushing it with a soft brush. 

 

Worked like a charm! I just needed to repeat the procedure several times to fix the recessed areas, but it saved my models.

 

Just do not skip the brushing step, that is really needed to remove the chalkiness. 

[Arkhanist]

Matt varnish is gloss varnish with a fine matting agent in it (one example is very finely ground talc). The matting agent makes the surface slightly bumpy at the microscopic level, which then scatters the light a bit so it's not smooth and reflective like gloss varnish.

 

Frosting is where you get too much of the matting agent at the surface and a very rough surface; in effect, it's as if you've covered that area in glued on talc, rather than spread throughout a transparent medium. Causes include very low or very high temperature, varnishing over not-yet-cured paint, improper shaking of the varnish, spraying on too much, and the most common cause, high humidity when spraying.

 

No matt varnish is immune to frosting, due to its very nature, but some are more prone than others, depending upon environment and application.

 

So all the fixes basically revolve around getting more transparent medium onto the microscopic rough surface, making it smoother, so you end up with a new surface that's not so rough.

 

I've heard mixed reports of the olive oil method working; for some people it works great, for others not so much. I haven't had frosting problems since I switched to airbrushing my varnish (and it was rare, as I didn't varnish on high humidity days), but the method that worked for me was to brush on a thin coat of gloss varnish over the affected areas and let fully dry, which 'removed' the frosting.

 

I could then reapply matt varnish to those areas to cover the gloss, making sure I didn't replicate the original circumstances that lead to frosting - though I'd tend to brush it on at that point rather than risk it happening again to that particular model!

[lhg033]

MegaVolt87 - Good advice for anyone. I personally do this before and after using any sprays to clear out the nozzle. 

 

Cheers all. A few things to try there. I have plenty of test subjects to try these ideas out on.

 

For the olive oil option, I have a soft 1 inch decorators brush I use for terrain - do you think this would work or should I be using something a bit stiffer like a (soft?) toothbrush. 

 

 

I think the most likely cause of the misting in my case is probably too thick a coat - most of the misting seems to be from one specific direction 

[Firedrake Cordova]

General advice is to go over it with a gloss varnish, then another hit of matt

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDOcdA00rO8

[Karhedron]

Matt varnish is gloss varnish with a fine matting agent in it (one example is very finely ground talc). The matting agent makes the surface slightly bumpy at the microscopic level, which then scatters the light a bit so it's not smooth and reflective like gloss varnish.

Frosting is where you get too much of the matting agent at the surface and a very rough surface; in effect, it's as if you've covered that area in glued on talc, rather than spread throughout a transparent medium. Causes include very low or very high temperature, varnishing over not-yet-cured paint, improper shaking of the varnish, spraying on too much, and the most common cause, high humidity when spraying.

The white effect you get with spray varnish is often something different called blooming. This occurs when moisture from the atmosphere gets trapped in the spray. It causes a fogging of the varnish and can occur with gloss varnishes too so is entirely independent of the matting agent. Only varnish on warm dry days. Also avoid early morning and late evenings as temperature changes change the saturation point of the air. In practice this usually means you can varnish in the UK on about 3 days in the year

Having said that, some varnishes are more prone to blooming than others. I usually opt for Halfords car laquer. It is cheaper than GW varnish and better quality. The Satin finish works fine for armoured units. If you want a proper matt finish, allow the car laquer to dry thoroughly (preferably overnight) and then go over on top with a light spray of Testors Dullcote. This is pretty much the gold standard of matt finishes. Provided you apply under good conditions it gives a perfect flat finish every time.

Here is an Impuslor sprayed in Satin laquer.

And here is a character finished with Testors Dullcote. The final finish is practically indistinguishable from the finish of the paint.

[Lovecraft0110]

Sorry to hear that, lhg033!

 

I had a bad case of frosting on the leg armor of my Warhound titan after spending many hours on that...it wasn't fun!

 

This was with an airbrush varnish in very controlled conditions indoors (a scenario less prone to frosting), and still...

 

Anyway, at first I was really upset and thought I would have to strip the whole thing, but then I found this idea of using olive oil...well, let me tell you: it worked. After letting the olive oil dry for a few days, I then applied a different varnish (mine was probably too old), and that took care of the shine whilst not creating any additional frosting. 

 

So, long story short: it is fixable, and the olive oil method is not an urban legend! 

[lhg033]

I've given the olive oil method a go and it seems to have helped (no pics at the moment as lighting is terrible and I didn't do a before anyway)

 

For comparison I also tried another with just a thin layer of 'ard coat (only brush on i could find in the hose at the moment) painted on - again a bit of an improvement. Neither is perfect but I think the olive oil was slightly better. Just a few recesses that haven't come out completely which again suggests I may have over-sprayed the models.

 

I will try another with olive oil before committing to this. I'll try and post a few before/after pictures when I do as an example/terrible warning for others.