Codices with a good track record?

[HighMarshalAmp]

There's ups and downs for any army, but there must be codices that have seen more good than bad days in the last few years and some that haven't.

 

Would you say there are a few it's generally safe to bet against?

Some that tend to do rather well regardless of the meta?

 

Of course, it's more about armies in general and less about individual players - I'm sure your average ITC top scorer would obliterate an Iron Hands Dread list played by the average Joe with nothing but Chaos Spa*BLAM*

 

Disclaimer: I play Oldmarines, Thouand Sons and am starting Sisters of Battle. I seem to gravitate towards underdog units in these armies as well (Tactical Squads, Rubric Marines, Retributor Squads...) and I'm fully aware of that. If you want to tell me to stop chasing the meta and to quit asking which army I should buy buy to guarantee my victory... it's not about that.

I'm just not in the loop on some armies and would like to know how they're doing outside of the ITC when they're not what every WAAC player brings to the table this week.

[Maschinenpriester]

I had the feeling that Eldar did pretty good in the last 2 editions at least.

I NEVER won against Eldar with my EC ever.

[MARK0SIAN]

Yeah Eldar have performed consistently well for a very long time, across multiple editions.

 

I’m less familiar with them but I also don’t think Tau have been an what you’d call an underdog very often.

 

I’m not saying those codexes are packed to the brim with all star units but they always seem to have enough powerful units/gimmicks to make them successful.

Edited July 10, 2020 by MARK0SIAN

[tychobi]

Every edition is different but history has some consistent winners. Eldar (superfaction), Guard, Space marines, Orks, Chaos (superfaction), Tau usually have some nasty builds. Lists that win a lot take advantage of rules combos and or under point valued units. Often the lists and models themselves within a codex do not transcend a meta shift even if the codex itself is still strong so beware the hotness of today as outliers are getting brought in line quickly. They can not nerf good strategy and quality generalship and those are best learned without the crutch of spammy meta breaking power lists anyway! Play lots to win more.

[The Unseen]

Craftworld Eldar haven't been anything but top-tier since at least 4th. (Which is as far back as my 40k career goes)

BUT (And its a big one), the units that are that good tend to not be consistent throughout each edition. Wraithknights and Wave Serpents were tearing up the battlefield in 6th and 7th, but have been mediocre all of 8th, etc.
Guard is also never bad, because cheap spammable shooty troops backed up by efficient tough tanks is just good.

 

Space Marines tend to waffle between OP and Meh, as they tend to get released early in the edition cycle as the best, then the powercreep sets in and they end up being sub-par by the end.

[N1SB]

Hey Brother Amp, great questions, way to look at the trend and not a snapshot.  I'll start with the hard question 1st that's a bit of a laserbeam.

 

 

Would you say there are a few it's generally safe to bet against?

Some that tend to do rather well regardless of the meta?

 

I'm just not in the loop on some armies and would like to know how they're doing outside of the ITC when they're not what every WAAC player brings to the table this week.

 

What's safe to bet against?  Not disparaging this faction, I think they're cool and always wanted to do something with them, but signs are discouraging.

 

IMHO, outside of Kill Team games, where they're actually quite good, Dark Eldar/Drukhari don't seem to get a lot of airtime on the local tourney scene here for the last 3 editions.  I don't play enough against them to know exactly why (the fact that so few people actively play them here might actually be a telltale sign), but I remember this very telling moment from back in I think 7th ed.  A regular local tourney player showed up with an unpainted force and declared...correctly, tbh:

 

"I've found a way to make Dark Eldar work."

 

And he did...by taking Craftworld Eldar allies worth MORE than his Dark Eldar main detachment.  It was like a Farseer, some Troops tax, those awesome planes, a Wraithknight, all the top units from a different Codex than the one he was making work.  When a Codex works when you need more from another Codex, that's a sign.

 

So what's the safe bet, regardless of the meta?

 

I agree with the others, Eldar are not just pretty good to OP, but are pretty good to OP consistently, which is quite amazing.

 

Loyalist Marines are always at least B+, currently I think they're a solid A or A+.  I think a big reason for that is...as the poster child of 40k, they're not just doing well regardless of the meta, they ARE the meta, should they fall below a B+ GW will intervene with some supplement(s) to bring them back up.

[Panzer]

Craftworld Eldar have been strong for a long time and T'au have always been solid as well. Other than that, they all had their ups and downs. Some more downs than ups (looking at CSM and Tyranids here).

[A.T.]

Marines, by virtue of quantity, will always have something they can go to. The subfactions can fall by the wayside waiting for updates though.

 

Chaos similarly get a lot of material if you aren't tied to one particular style. They can be more combo-reliant on that front that regular bonus-stacking marines, but they are a safe bet for getting updates at a fairly regular pace

 

 

Craftworld Eldar haven't been anything but top-tier since at least 4th. (Which is as far back as my 40k career goes)

 

Eldar have definitely been good to excellent in some form in all editions except 5th - they had some options there but lost their shenanigans with the new edition and got buried by codex creep.

[HighMarshalAmp]

Well, Eldar have gone up in points something awful  

Apparently, GW agrees with what you said.

[A.T.]

Well, Eldar have gone up in points something awful 

Apparently, GW agrees with what you said.

If you are looking at the chart that shows them going up by around 50%, that apparently is the base cost and not accounting for a large drop in weapon costs, averaging them out at around +20%

 

Also there are going to be some armies where key units get hiked, whereas for others stuff they don't use/need may push up their average hiding a smaller overall gain in the stuff that matters.

[Xenith]

Craftworld Eldar have been strong to broken since 2nd ed. As per the above, the specific units vary though. 

 

Marines are 50/50 per edition, but have been stronger recently. They were dead weak in 3rd/4th, but have been decent since they released drop pods. Armies are gimmicky and extreme, though, like 10melta sternguard in a pod with vulkan, dread mash, etc. Expect them to keep going up as GW push primaris.

 

Chaos are not. They were insanely strong for half an edition, and have been punished for it. They had one strong build in 4th (lash/obliterator spam) but that's it.

[A.T.]

Chaos are not. They were insanely strong for half an edition, and have been punished for it. They had one strong build in 4th (lash/obliterator spam) but that's it.

 

I seem to recall they were decent enough in 2nd. If nothing else you could take Huron and then cherry pick from the entire space marine codex at equal cost to add to the rest of the force.

 

3e was of course the era of the 3.5 dex, 4e was not half bad against the initial 5e marine launch - plague marine troops, drive by daemon assaults, plasmicide, etc on top of the prince and oblits - but the +1 marine books as the edition rolled on were a clear cut above. Depending on how broadly you view chaos the renegade guard element has also had some real power, including what can only be described as "guard, but cheaper and with far more guns". 6e-7e had the helldrake spam at the start, summoning spam at the end, screamer star... and not all that much in the middle.

8e too has had its moments - Ahriman and princes, first turn striking oblits, cultists screens and slaanesh havoks all pushed out of the gate hard to name a few. Took 2nd place at adepticon 2018 and strong showings from the death guard side too.

 

 

But they are up and down all the time rather than long stretches of dominance.