Master Swordsman + super-doctrine + Grimaldus =

[Brother Kraskor]

Well met brothers and apologies if this has been covered before.

 

Theorycrafting here and have come across a combo that has me scratching my head.

 

Would all the following effects stack?

 

1) Master Swordsman WL trait means 6s to hit cause two hits, instead of one.

 

2) Knights of Sigismund (BT superdoctrine) means, provided a charge/intervention is made, means 6s to hit auto-wound.

 

3) Grimaldus' aura (Unmatched Zeal) means 6s to hit generate an additional attack (but these attacks do not generate further attacks).

 

 

So let's say you have charged with your WL and all the above applies (not fighting a vehicle). Rolling a single 6 to hit would mean:

 

A ) Two auto-wounds and an extra attack?

 

B ) One auto-wound, one regular hit, and one extra attack?

 

And then, say you score a 6 on the extra attack as well:

 

A ) Two more auto-wounds?

 

B ) One more auto-wound and one more hit?

 

 

This could turn pretty ugly. A Primaris Captain, for example, would have 7A on the charge (WL trait + Shock Assault). Imagine the unlikely scenario in which it scores seven 6s, does that mean:

 

A ) Fourteen auto-wounds and seven extra attacks?!

 

B ) Seven auto-wounds, seven hits, and seven extra attacks?

 

And imagine you roll seven 6s on the extra attacks as well:

 

A ) Fourteen more auto-wounds?!

 

B ) Seven more auto-wounds, and seven more hits?

 

 

If you take option A throughout, the Captain has a massive potential of 28 wounds against any Toughness! (Obviously this would never happen for real without weighted dice, but just for example's sake.)

 

Am I reading the interaction right brothers? Does the auto-wound from the superdoctrine apply to the extra hits generated by Master Swordsman or not? 

 

Edit: And what if you threw Fires of Devotion into the mix: with option A) could be 32 autowounds!!

Edited July 12, 2020 by Brother Kraskor

[CastellanDeMolay]

RAW, I would argue for scenario B, as you didn't roll to hit for the additional hit, and therefore cannot have rolled a 6. However, I think a fair interpretation would be to allow the rolling of a separate D6 for each additional Hit, treating it as an auto-wounding Hit on the roll of a natural 6. (an "auto-wound"-check, after the fact, if you will)

[Medjugorje]

wait on a errata because in 8th edition they changed it into Scenario B. I would say GW will keep this rule like it was. 

 

But there are more combinations: let grimaldus take the litany which gives additional hits on 6s and if you play against Chaos then take the Stratagem which has the same rule. 

[Brother Kraskor]

Oh yes, if he has given Exhortation of Rage then each 6 generates two additional attacks!

 

Even going option B, if you have Chapter Master it could get pretty hairy.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I got the two together once. It was like a blender. Orks just died everywhere.

 

I think it goes like this:

 

Roll a 6. You get one auto wound, one auto hit, one extra attack. If you roll a 6 on that attacks, it auto wounds, and generates the extra hit from the trait. It doesn't generate another attack from Grim, and the loop ends. So each dice can explode into a possible 4 hits/wounds.

[Brother Kraskor]

Brilliant. I wonder what the maths is - are you better off re-rolling anything that isn't a 6 or just taking what hits you can?

 

Seems to me this would work best with eg. a power fist, provided you have chapter master. More swings of the bat to try and get the 6 without sacrificing any actual hits first time, because 2s also fail.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

Are they all unmodified 6s now? I know Grim and Doctrine are, but is Swordmaster?

 

I always take it on the Teeth of Terra, with the extra attacks it's mental.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Brother Adelard

[Medjugorje]

yes - Swordmaster is the same

[Brother Kraskor]

I always take it on the Teeth of Terra, with the extra attacks it's mental.

 

Nice idea! Proper blender. Shame we can't get a chainsword onto terminators or primaris...

[Sword Brother Adelard]

I use my converted Draco with Jump pack.