Thoughts on GW's recent decisions?

[Master Issodon]

 I was just curious what people thought about the impact of Games Workshop's string of decisions lately on their fans. What is the future of the 40k hobby? Will fans run away from it?

 

From the seemingly controversial  "Warhammer is for Everyone, Unless you don't agree with us." statement, to persecuting YouTubers with trademark strikes and finally to hyping up Indomitus for months and promising they quote, "Made Boatloads" and "Made enough to be sure every loyal fan gets one." Only for them to sell out in 15 minutes. (I'm not expressing an opinion on these things, just siting examples)

 

 I am sensing a lot of discontent in the 40k community with GW and I am wondering if they aren't on their way to another fan fall-off like they had through 6th-7th editions. What do you think?

 

P.S. One more thing, If you have to use the word "Politics" in your post, you should probably think very carefully about your reply. The mods are one step away from closing this topic.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Master Issodon

[Jings]

"Warhammer is for Everyone, except those we don't agree with" is a fairly disingenuous way of putting it. There is a noticeable vocal minority of racists within the hobby. The Imperium's always been human-supremacist and fascist, so it's unsurprising it attracts unsavory types - there are STILL sections of the community being pretty damn awful because GW put a black Space Marine on the cover of the Indominatus tie-in novel. I'm surprised that it's controversial - GW can be as inclusive as they want, so long as they don't start making lady Space Marines. The only people that should feel excluded by that statement are racists, really, and it's not as if every company in the world has been putting out similar sentiments. 

 

Indominatus release was bull though and I honestly don't understand why they're taking that approach. Some of us are skint (students, Summer, apocalypse) so for them to release an *extremely* limited set at this point in time with no plans of reprinting is insane. Hell, the fact that there's (seemingly) no intention to reprint it at all just boggles the mind considering how well it sold. They could be making a mint off of the mold costs if they were to continue production. It was geared as the new starter box, but it's limited run? Absolutely mental if you ask me and reeks of their Kirby-era decision making. I can't imagine the shareholders will be happy that they've got a successful product that they're refusing to make more of. 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Jings

[.Torch.]

The basic statement was one of tolerance and building an accepting community. I don't see how people can feel isolated by it. Edited July 12, 2020 by Dam13n
Removed quoted real world political post.

[Master Issodon]

Ok, maybe this post was a bad idea. I was not intending to start a conversation on the topic of the statement released by GW, but on the future of the company and our hobby based on the decisions they have made lately and how they have been received by the community.

 

Please stick to that.

[Dam13n]

Further to the above post, this topic is going to be closely observed. It's already on strike 1 and will be closed if posters continue to bring up real world politics.

[mughi3]

 I was just curious what people thought about the impact of Games Workshop's string of decisions lately on their fans. From the controversial  "Warhammer is for Everyone, except those we don't agree with." statement, to persecuting YouTubers with trademark strikes and finally to hyping up Indomitus for months and promising they quote, "Made Boatloads" and "Made enough to be sure every loyal fan gets one." Only for them to sell out in 15 minutes. (I'm not expressing an opinion on these things, just siting examples)

 

 I am sensing a lot of discontent in the 40k community with GW and I am wondering if they aren't on their way to another fan fall-off like they had through 6th-7th editions. What do you think?

Are you surprised GW has always been this way, well at least since they went corporate 

 

you forgot the part  where they decided internal profits were more important that letting independent game stores sell a larger number of  the new box bought at merchant prices. 

 

GW is a GAME company(well technically a model company with a game attached). they should stick to making GAMES for us to enjoy. i don't spend money on their product for moral guidance, or bad business practices. 

 

 

 

 

 

*massive edit to bring it inline with the mods direction, lets just say i strongly disagree with most of the first half of Jing's post, but i will not debate his fallacies any further in the forums.  

 

Edited July 12, 2020 by mughi3

[MegaVolt87]

I think GW should be staying away from agressive copyright striking on YT. A hearts and minds strategy would be far more effective for them. Reward influences that align positively with your brand. Vocal minorities on the internet get louder than they ever could when you try to directly supress them- Streisand effect, ignore them like they don't exist is best. Also lure of free stuff can make those disenters sell out potentially making them even more of a minority. Soft power approach would be the way to go.

[WrathOfTheLion]

In my opinion, GW is not used to success at this level and is unprepared, both in how they present themselves and handle trademark claims. In the case of the trademark thing especially, it was likely a single employee who wanted to act without understanding intellectual property, which can very easily get the whole company in trouble.

[Ubiquitous1984]

I would prefer GW to be able to capitalise on the obvious demand of their customers.  A mega-hyped release should not result in so many fans being left disappointed.  
 

As for the politics, GW would be best placed to steer well clear.  If you can’t please everyone then don’t try and please anyone at all IMO.  Stick to what they do well and leave other issues to those that thrive on confrontation and argument.  

[Dark Shepherd]

As for the politics, GW would be best placed to steer well clear. If you can’t please everyone then don’t try and please anyone at all IMO. Stick to what they do well and leave other issues to those that thrive on confrontation and argument.

I think they would have except they got a lot of heat from within the community for promoting cop novels in the middle of widespread police brutality protests. Which was not malicious but a bit of a dumb mistake. Other than that theres been one youtuber who was overtly racist.

 

Theyre a corporation who are worried about share prices so a tiny bit of PR isnt unexpected at the very least.

 

Wider that that, growing the fanbase beyond the traditional/stereotypical is a good thing, and allows for more commercial tie ins, IP rights deals etc

Edited July 12, 2020 by Dark Shepherd

[MegaVolt87]

Unless a corporation is directly involved/ influences/ impacts in the area they are trying to message about socially/ politically, they should remain neutral and focus on the products and services they are in business for.

It's just not good business potentialy cutting away ANY potential consumer, the goals and outcomes should be entirety economic for a corporation. It's not personal, just business.

[Bryan Blaire]

GW will be fine and the hobby will go on - even if veterans leave the hobby, new ones will come in to take their place.

 

As far as Indomitus, meh, there will be other opportunities to get models (probably these exact models) and IMO, people were a little too eager to get push-fit ETB models, but to each their own. We can all still play 9th Edition though, the rule book is still available. Personally, I'm waiting for multi-part kits for the things I wanted out of Indomitus anyway (Assault Intercessors, maybe the bikes, depending on how those are done in whatever SW Codex comes next).

 

Don't get me wrong, I feel for y'all that really, really wanted Indomitus, and GW probably should have made some different decisions on what they said and what they allowed for purchase, but I think there are probably more factors than are even being guessed at that caused the sale of Indomitus to go down the way it did.

[Master Issodon]

I have to be honest and say all the twitters and you tubers flaunting their free boxes and books really overloads my aggression inhibitors.

 

We should all get to discover the rules and enjoy the plastic at the same time.

 I agree with this. Every time I saw a new tuber with a brand new Indomitus box before anyone else got one I thought, "Well, there's another copy that a fan would have to pay for, if they even get one."

[Brother-Captain Gilead]

Unless a corporation is directly involved/ influences/ impacts in the area they are trying to message about socially/ politically, they should remain neutral and focus on the products and services they are in business for.

It's just not good business potentialy cutting away ANY potential consumer, the goals and outcomes should be entirety economic for a corporation. It's not personal, just business.

 

If a slice of your consumer base is alienating other people from becoming your consumers it does make sense economically. The corporate history is filled with examples of that and most of them are not really political, more brand-related. If you will allow me to digress a bit with a non-political example: Tiffany's is a brand of jewelry that used to have an insanely successful line of cheaper jewelry aimed at teens in the 90s that they suddenly just closed off completely because the management was afraid that it would cheapen their brand and lead to their core customers (well-off adults) being replaced by a customer base that is much less affluent and would not buy their most expensive products where you have the biggest margins. A decision to cut off consumers that was based on pure economics.

 

As to limiting the number of Indominatus boxes it makes so little sense that I can't help but feel there might be a logistics related issue behind it. No sane company leaves demand unfulfilled on the scale it seems to be happening right now.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Brother-Captain Gilead

[Master Issodon]

One more thing, If you have to use the word "Politics" in your post, you should probably think very carefully about your reply. The mods are one step away from closing this topic.

[Schurge]

I think the "Warhammer is for everyone" but those with wrong-think opinions was likely just the action of a lone individual and so I am not holding it against GW. Twitter is a trash fire and as far as I can tell nothing good comes of it. I guess I will leave that at that in the interest of maintaining the peace on this board of ours.

 

I also don't think that how the Indomitus release was handled was due to anything nefarious.

 

If anything is upsetting me it is the rules for the Eradicators' melta rifles... 24" range removes the trade-off of melta and as far as I am aware is several times better then any equivalent weapons available to Chaos and Xenos. Is every faction going to get the figurative Primaries treatment?

 

Also, the uncertainty I feel about the direction they will be taking the fluff in makes me hesitant to spend as much money on the hobby as I have in the past. I am not convinced that we aren't looking at another Star Wars situation.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Schurge

[Doghouse]

They'll do fine, they're pretty much got a foothold in mainstream culture now and it's a far cry from when I started about 35 years ago when I think it was just two model shops. 

 

I think they have their sights firmly set in the animation market and have made good use of their licensing for games and things as well as creating their own media. They've made a few mistakes here and there but as we've seen from their profits they are doing extremely well. They've even rebranded seamlessly.

 

I've seen them circling the drain a few times over the last few decades and right now they couldn't be further from that. If anything I can see them getting bigger with the IP avenues they are creating.

[smileyjim]

They are growing well. The move into media for the IP is smart and if they can get the quality and talent then there is a massive customer base that will happily watch 40k shows and movies with no idea that there's a tabletop game behind it. Astartes on youtube proves that. If they could release a full movie of that quality and production tomorrow it would be massive. Marvel massive? No, but way bigger than anything they have come close to as a company so far.

I think the biggest indicator of GWs as future is how well they can develop and promote their move into media. The models will tick along.

 

As for the virtue signaling, it's a sign of the times. Any company of a certain size will do it because the concept of what a company is has changed. Its not about making and selling widgets, it's about comunicating a message that resonates with the identity and culture of those people that buy widgets...

A nice example, Tesla.

[Brother-Captain Gilead]

They'll do fine, they're pretty much got a foothold in mainstream culture now and it's a far cry from when I started about 35 years ago when I think it was just two model shops. 

 

I think they have their sights firmly set in the animation market and have made good use of their licensing for games and things as well as creating their own media. They've made a few mistakes here and there but as we've seen from their profits they are doing extremely well. They've even rebranded seamlessly.

 

I've seen them circling the drain a few times over the last few decades and right now they couldn't be further from that. If anything I can see them getting bigger with the IP avenues they are creating.

 

I think more attention should be paid to this. When I started in the hobby more than 2 decades ago it was a niche thing, nowadays I hesitate to call it mainstream, but it is definitely mainstream adjacent on a level that I could not have believed their universe to ever reach. Most of their transmedia stuff also seems to be adding to their brand with a variety of really good videogames (and even more lackluster ones, but people seem to only remember the good ones) a variety of books that really isn't equaled by anything except the old Star Wars expanded universe and now animation as an additional wing of their media presence. They have made some smart choices and seem to be making more of them than bad ones (although again I can't understand the Indomitus box thing, if it isn't a production/logistics issue from Covid, then either their internal demand forecasting people need to rethink their approach or whoever made the call to ignore that forecast and lowball the production needs to rethink his/her approach).

[Gederas]

although again I can't understand the Indomitus box thing, if it isn't a production/logistics issue from Covid, then either their internal demand forecasting people need to rethink their approach or whoever made the call to ignore that forecast and lowball the production needs to rethink his/her approach

I think it was a combination of all of it to be honest. The owner of my FLGS said that the US received 30-35k boxes of Indomitus for 3rd-party retailers and those were sold and allotted to the 3rd party vendors within a week. And according to his rep, that's more than Dark Imperium got orders for in three years.

 

Because we have to remember: The Covid thing caused their factories and warehouses to shut down for months, so they probably only had a set amount made before the shutdowns happened. And since the books are printed in China....

[Jings]

Also, the uncertainty I feel about the direction they will be taking the fluff in makes me hesitant to spend as much money on the hobby as I have in the past. I am not convinced that we aren't looking at another Star Wars situation.

 

I feel we've been looking at a Star Wars situation since the introduction of Primaris. Games Workshop are trying to push the setting into the mainstream, and a setting that is spearheaded by a fascist, patriarchal dystopia will not be accepted in the current cultural zeitgeist. Hence the increase in diversity within the model ranges (good thing), the cleaner art (subjectively bad) and the general sanitizing of the setting (objectively bad). 

 

Ironically, the more the setting and franchise aims to take itself seriously, the more compromised it has to become. The elements of parody and satire that once formed the core of the 40K setting allowed it to play and poke fun at certain unpalatable ideas with an over the top irreverence that brought those ideas forward but certainly didn't glorify them. But that can't be done with a more serious setting today - you can't have the Imperium as it was as "good guys", which seems to be the narrative direction GW are taking the setting, as opposed to the old view that "everyone's the baddy". It's difficult to take that forward in this new age where nuance and context are often disregarded in the outrage. The abrupt ending of the Nurgle storyline due to the current pandemic situation is a great example of this - while it could have been a great opportunity to do some poignant storytelling and explore or satirize real world issues in the context of 40K, it was instead brushed under the rug and forgotten in order to avoid any offense - a move in-line with the new, cleaner image that GW seem to be pushing for. I hope this has been clear enough, it's difficult to discuss satire and parody while keeping things apolitical so apologies if I've crossed any lines here. 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Jings

[Marshal Reinhard]

"I didn't get a box, GW is now Satan!" Is all I hear when it comes to the preorder.

 

I'm not even gonna bother touching any other subject this thread may or may not have alluded to.

[N1SB]

Humble reminder before anything else: if you couldn't get your Indomitus set from the GW site, check with your FLGS or an online tabletop shop if you haven't already (and I don't mean scalpers on eBay).  Our local FLGSs had spare sets.  If anything, I reckon GW may have been trying to give their Trade Channel, i.e. FLGS, an opportunity to capitalise instead of cannibalising their sales entirely through GW's own Mail Order Channel, i.e. own webstore.  It's like GW may have an agreement to support the FLGS, like "don't worry, we know many people are still in lockdown so will be ordering online, we'll only sell X number of copies ourselves so you can sell your Y number of copies."

 

Of course, the only problem is, if that's the case, I would have released a statement RIGHT NOW via eDM and WhC like, "Interest in our new 9th ed Indomitus Starter Set exceeded even our wildest expectations, to the point that we have unfortunately depleted our own inventory.  However, our valued partners, the local gaming stores in your communities, had pre-ordered the box sets, so please check with them on this limited edition.  We apologise for the inconvenience caused by this unprecedented demand."

 

(Also, if you're after the models, I think the box set with the special edition rulebook was for this limited run, but they'll repackage those same minis in the future like they did in the First Strike box or whatever.  Probably at a discounted price compared to what you'd pay if you bought them separately.  The molds aren't going anywhere.)

 

In any case, this leads to what I think is GW's problem right now...

 

 

+++ so on this specific thread topic +++

 

 

I honestly have a thesis that connects all these problems together, which I posit to you as follows:

 

I think GW's recent incidents are partly/largely a case of "the guy we needed to weigh in wasn't in the room."  Because everyone was working from home at that time.

 

Many of you who are working probably have had this experience.  Something should/needs to be done, there's a meeting, lots of idea, but the ONE GUY...the expert in his/her field who would've noticed the most problematic detail, OR just the one who had an objective view like "Hey, guys, let's think this through"...wasn't there.  Probably so important s/he was in a customer/partner meeting.  It happens sometimes, mistakes slip through.  The problem is, because of the pandemic, all those ONE GUYS were absent because there was only so much that could be done on Zoom.

 

The "...you will not be missed" statement, I just re-read it, everything was fine UNTIL the very last sentence of "...you will not be missed".  I know it's a reference to the classic "the galaxy is a large place..." quote from since 1st ed, I know, but someone should've been the one to say, "Hey, I know the whole purpose of this post is that we don't want to be exclusionary, but that very last sentence sounds a bit exclusionary, do we need that?"

 

For the sold-out Indomitus set, someone should have been there to voice out, "Hey, we don't want another Shadow War: Armageddon situation.  We've already got the entire Twitch team and WhC and even Jes Goodwin came out of dungeon to promote this.  Do we have a statement if our webstore sells out?  What's our Plan B?"

 

Meetings are boooooring and I usually hate the guys who ask these questions, they're like the kid back in school who raises his hand constantly in class, but they're kinda necessary to avoid situations like described here.  But I think GW does have that process, but things have been severely disrupted since the lockdown...and will take time to get back to normal.

 

But to put things into perspective, I understand hyping up demand then under-delivering on supply is a problem...but selling out a flagship product in 15 minutes is a problem OTHER companies WISHED they had.  I'm not making fun of that sentiment, I know what it's like, but in all seriousness, I agree it's a problem...but it's a happy problem.

[Metzombie]

 

 

 

and the general sanitizing of the setting (objectively bad). 

Do you have any examples for that? Becaus I have read that multiple times and never realy seen it in the books I am reading.

[Dark Shepherd]

As long as there is always corpse starch I don’t think the setting can be called sanitized