Thoughts on GW's recent decisions?

[Lay]

I remember when GW used to send C&D letters to fansites featuring their artwork and blocked the release of fan films. Or when they scrubbed their site of all hobby content and would maintain radio silence about new releases. Or when they abandoned their specialist games range.

I never really liked the company, I'm here for the hobby. But at least they've caught up with the times and they seem to know what they're doing now. So, good for them.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Lay

[chapter master 454]

Going to punt a quick one through the goal posts and see if I get points but I often feel some vocal veterans of the game only want a universe where every imperial guardsman just got  a wife who is pregnant with twin girls and then got sent off to be instantly sent off to the commargh torture pits from a dark eldar raid, while the wife is eaten and consumed by tyranids. They call it grimdark, I call it bland and predictable. A lot of them don't like anything to do with the Imperium gaining any ground or some of the noblebright aspects that have come to light over the years but I feel it helps create good contrast and narrative flexibility. Now you really don't know who is going to win and lose because now we have the possible directions of noblebright or grimdark. It isn't grimdark when you know the only options are defeat or pyrrhic victory.

 

As for GW, I think we are hitting one of those bumpy bits of the road. So far, GW have been hitting some good notes and kept a good track record since start of 8th imo. It is possible that past sales didn't match up with the current demand and thus becoming victims of their own success however it doesn't excuse complete radio silence unless they are being caught just as flat-footed as we think. Not sure how you can even start to fix this however I don't think you can except by in future putting in place measures to stop scalpers more rigourously, which we wouldn't know about until another thing like this happened, don't even advertise your anti-scalper tech.

The radio silence however could be indicitive of them doing anti-scalper measures right now and may be part of the 2 week pre-order time. Possibly they are bigger brained than we all give them credit and this gives them time to track down scalpers (at least a good chunk of them) and recover stock so others can get their own. We will see. Never know, we may look back at this whole thing once we know the whole story and applaud GW, who knows?

[Jings]

 

 

 

 

and the general sanitizing of the setting (objectively bad). 

Do you have any examples for that? Becaus I have read that multiple times and never realy seen it in the books I am reading.

 

 

I guess sanitizing is a poor word for what I mean. I guess a tonal shift would be better. More attempts at grounding the setting, less mystique and less tragedy, pyrric victories or political/bureaucratic parody. From the media I've consumed, the setting feels a lot less 1984 and a lot more Rambo than it did when I first returned to the hobby a decade back. Again, the abandonment of the Nurgle plot line is symptomatic of this. 

 

I'll admit though I haven't read too much of the newer novels being pumped out mostly due to lack of interest. I read through the Beast Arises and outside of a couple of stand out moments I found it to be largely trite and contrived and it put me off anything newer. It's not as if there are many books outside of the HH that people are recommending these days. The bolter porn is still gruesome and nasty bad still happens sure, but violence and shock =/= grimdark to me.

 

Maybe I'm just growing out of Warhammer and expect it to be more than it is. But then I look back at things like Dead Men Walking or 15 Hours and I think maybe there's just too much Space Marine melodrama and not enough human tragedy to keep things relatable. Probably why I'm drawn more to Abnett's work than others. 

Edited July 12, 2020 by Jings

[Lucerne]

Pruning the poisonous parasites from the community and the cult of "fans" he's built up who're less interested in the hobby and more disease vectors for unpleasant and entirely non-hobby related beliefs is a long overdue and necessary measure.

 

Firing authors over debatably justifiable tweets is a very bad look and worse PR-move timing wise. Better to simply wait and say nothing, then just cancel his contracts if he's really annoyed the wrong people.

 

Indomitus isn't entirely their fault but if they wanted to pull a limited release stunt they needed to be either a) on top of scalpers/made enough copies that everyone who really wanted to order once could do so, have the starter box ready to be teased when they sold out. Indomitus was pretty much a license to print money and they should probably rush out the starter box or print more copies ASAP to avoid playerbase resentment.

 

Instead we have one success with the removal of the toxic "video maker" whose actual content is effectively reciting mangled wiki articles in a stupid fake accent- followed by two easily preventable own goals.

 

On the subject of grimdark:

while it's possible to take it too far? 40k should not be a conventional hero vs villain, "the plucky humans" narrative. The IoM is unforgiveable and unjustifiable on the macro level and it should be an open question if Chaos is truly worse for humanity, or if the continued existence of humanity is worth it if it's done under such a system.

 

Making the IoM as is "heroic" or having the "good Imperial" like Guilliman suddenly bleating about reformism and quibbling about cherubs even as he turns it into an Astartes-run police state that offers even less hope for individuals to control their own fates, with narrative cheering him on...That sends all the wrong messages and misses the point. If GW writing has an issue, it's entirely connected to them scrambling for a simple, conventional "heroes vs villains" narrative even more than had already happened.

 

BL needs to be better at retaining their quality writers: both hampering Reynolds and not hanging onto him were mistakes that should not have been made by such a large-scale company, and the Siege of Terra shows how their decision making for big series often falls apart.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Lucerne

[Dark Shepherd]

Jings I would recommend Spear of the Emperor by ADB, serious HH feel to it

[Schurge]

Calling members of the community "vocally racist" and "toxic" is baiting at best when we all know who your talking about and many of us don't view them in the same light.

 

 

As long as there is always corpse starch I don’t think the setting can be called sanitized

Edited July 12, 2020 by Schurge

[Lucerne]

Calling members of the community "vocally racist" and "toxic" is baiting at best when we all know who your talking about and many of us don't view them in the same light.

 

 

As long as there is always corpse starch I don’t think the setting can be called sanitized

Or daemons playing a harp made out of the ribcage of a still living (?) person

Basic body horror and violence against nameless men is the least grimdark trope in grimdark settings in my opinion. They are also perhaps the most common tropes to be shared with non-grimdark settings. Their presence doesn't necessarily means setting is grimdark.

 

Then whatever individuals allegedly make up "many of us" are not acting from proven fact-based decision making and therefore aren't exactly relevant to anyone, are they?

 

 

How is siege of terra falling apart and who is the youtuber that got axed?

Siege of Terra has the same coordination and multi-author issues we were seeing with the war of the beast and horus heresy: a strong start, some plot point and characterization flubs as the baton gets passed between writers, inconsistencies between novels, mishandling plot points/characters that "belong" to other writers (RIP Night Lords)...

 

Honestly, it feels like fewer, more carefully paced novels written by the top tier writers might have ended with a more coherent result.

 

As for the parasite, without touching on the scandal directly, that creature's hysterics about a fairly mild GW announcement as well as yet another exposure of what he's actually doing and pushing while masquerading as a real hobbyist with a place in the community is a pretty public fiasco elsewhere that I won't go into detail about here.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Lucerne

[Azaiel]

I have not really understood the "40K is getting less grimdark" that some perceive these days. Miniaturewise I see no such evidence, take a look at the brand new Sister of battle plastics. We have a immolated corpse on a base, a procession with a dead sister, cherubs, repentia and arco flagellants. The new Primaris captain has a dead guy on his shield. We have a necron scientist disintegrating a human... etc etc If you want Grimdark paintjobs the Eavy metal team is not were you want to look, ever. They have always made great looking clean colourful miniatures. Give some of these minis to the Inq28 and you´ll get grimdark.

 

Artwork wise there is more color these days but the new artpiece of Blood angels getting ready for battle is pretty grim looking IMHO and the set piece of various unknown aliens including a mushroom tree with lasercannons gives me a nostalgic vibe.

[Marshal Rohr]

The decision to do copyright strikes on YouTube was the right one. Their Warhammer community statement was basically just ‘don’t be mean to other hobbyists’ it had no other message beyond ‘don’t be mean to other hobbyists’, but certain people took it as a personal attack. Indomitus is looking less and less like GWs fault and more and more like shady trade accounts.

 

 

It’s easy for people to boo and hiss a company as being evil but everyone knows that’s a very.... simplistic view of the world. GW is never going to make decisions that make everyone happy, and the Internet is where unhappy people come to be unhappy, so it looks like people are mad on twitter and forums, but in really GW just sold 100% of this new box they made. The goodwill they lost with internet posters hasn’t ever really hit them in the pocketbook.

[Brother Tyler]

The YouTuber was Arch. The action was announced here. Because of the controversial nature of the action, you'll have to look outside of the B&C for a place to discuss it.

 

The recently fired BL author was Thomas Parrott. You can see discussion of that issue here. That topic turned sour, so it was closed.

 

The issue of grimdark in the setting was most recently discussed in April here. Some members found it difficult to behave in accordance with the forum rules, so that topic was closed. If you'd like to discuss grimdark, please start a new topic.

 

Let's keep this discussion on point with the two issues that the OP brought up - the "Warhammer is for everyone" announcement (which is full of potential for political discussion, so be wary) and the Indomitus release (which was being discussed here, but it's no longer news, a rumor, or an announcement, so that topic was closed).

[Lucerne]

The decision to do copyright strikes on YouTube was the right one. Their Warhammer community statement was basically just ‘don’t be mean to other hobbyists’ it had no other message beyond ‘don’t be mean to other hobbyists’, but certain people took it as a personal attack. Indomitus is looking less and less like GWs fault and more and more like shady trade accounts.

 

 

It’s easy for people to boo and hiss a company as being evil but everyone knows that’s a very.... simplistic view of the world. GW is never going to make decisions that make everyone happy, and the Internet is where unhappy people come to be unhappy, so it looks like people are mad on twitter and forums, but in really GW just sold 100% of this new box they made. The goodwill they lost with internet posters hasn’t ever really hit them in the pocketbook.

Ehhhhhhhhhhh. Goodwill is hard to quantify, but dismissing it entirely in this context feels like the wrong move. Anecdotally, the Indomitus mess was offputting for multiple new hobbyists to the point of not actually starting in the hobby, and caused resentment from many of the sorts of players that had cash to burn on it.

 

Of course shady trade accounts were involved but at the same time either larger stocks, proper vetting, or simply not making it so limited would have sidestepped a predictable issue.

 

The problem isn't GW being the evil company- this time- it's that they managed to turn a fairly successful PR blitz and hype machine into a partial own goal and have yet to handle things productively.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Lucerne

[Marshal Rohr]

I’m not saying GW pitched a no hitter here and were undone by the darned trade accounts and their dog, I’m saying bottom line 100% of this product moved in under 20 minutes. The Unpurchased stock set aside for trade accounts will be accounted for and readded to the webstore and Gw brick and mortars. Maybe this will finally show them they have to limit all release weekend boxes to one per person, implement a queue to prevent crashing, and forbid the practice of pre-pre orders in LGS by requiring cash payments from customers up front or something. Edited July 12, 2020 by Marshal Rohr

[Blank Dave]

TBH, I'm about ready to flip a desk, and pitch all my figures in the bin.

 

The Indominus set selling out in 15mins, even in Canada, is just the icing on the cake for me. I've been suffering some serious care taker burn out/anxiety, and getting thwarted on getting some new toys has just about put me over the edge.

 

I'll keep my whine at that.

[Bung]

I remember when GW used to send C&D letters to fansites featuring their artwork and blocked the release of fan films. Or when they scrubbed their site of all hobby content and would maintain radio silence about new releases. Or when they abandoned their specialist games range.

I never really liked the company, I'm here for the hobby. But at least they've caught up with the times and they seem to know what they're doing now. So, good for them.

 

Ah, the times, when they said, we dont need to FaQ anything cause our rules are good as they are.

I remember all that bad decissions, too and im feeling old now. 

 

And yes, Warhammer should be for everyone.

Anyone should go into a store or club without being harrased / attacked etc. Everyone should feel equally welcome (maybe except for "that guy" noone wants to play).

but i think thats a thing that should be addressed in the community, the clubs, stores everywhere where that hobby takes place.

I feel its the duty of a store owner / manager and club members to set an example and punish bad behavior.

Just done be a dick and make everything feel welcome, thats a thing that lets a community grow.

 

The other point with Indomitus and other limited releases, i cant understand the limitt for years.

1500 copies for the whole world. Sorry, there had been limited car production runs with more units and its evertime the same with people getting angry for not getting their copy.

I think they should change their system to something like that of Corvus Belli (Infinity Tabletop).

You have a pre-order window of a month and if you order in that time, you get a free limited miniature.

Why doesnt GW do the same, they could start to produce the Kits  Boxes and give it a time period for pre order and then adjust production. Maybe tell people that it may take longer to get a box, but they will definitly get one.

That way they could better predict the demand for new releases.

I mean other companies did that for their products (some car companies for example.

 

For me, i think the worst hit was for the indipendent Nerdstores, that had to sent customers away cause they couldnt get boxes. 

I think thats been one of the worst hits for some communities, when those stores have to close as those customers decide to buy more online and the Nerdstores loose even more sales, as people think they cant fullfill their wishes.

[CaptainMarsh]

The YT copyright strikes are silly but won't have a huge impact. And in a few months the community's feelings over Indomitus, while sore, will have scabbed over. Poor decisions or not, this won't lead to any sort of real fall off.

[Lucerne]

TBH, I'm about ready to flip a desk, and pitch all my figures in the bin.

 

The Indominus set selling out in 15mins, even in Canada, is just the icing on the cake for me. I've been suffering some serious care taker burn out/anxiety, and getting thwarted on getting some new toys has just about put me over the edge.

 

I'll keep my whine at that.

That definitely sucks. Remember, there will be other chances to get these models and things will work out eventually, more or less, yeah? Deep breaths and all that.

[Spacecow]

I can definitely understand the disappointment people had for the indomitus release. It’s been unreal. My partner managed to get two boxes. ( he’s splitting it with a mate who loves Necrons, so no scalping!)

With it being up earlier, the site crashing (during and after payment) he was genuinely shaking after that. He was also unsure if it went through . The relief he had when he found it in his junk mail .

It’s not a nice experience and he managed to get what he wanted ..

 

Regarding the statement. I think it’s a step in the right direction. This hobby should be for everyone! :)

Distancing their IP from certain content creators that have very specific iffy( not sure what I can mention on this forum) views is very understandable.

[Alcyon]

Ironically this whole madness over Indomitus should really be pushing people back to their LGSs and away from GW's webstore. I literally just sent a couple local shops messages on Facebook and was able to pre-order a box a few days before release.

 

I have no idea why people would prefer to try and race thousands of other Frater to click the buy button on the same website when your hobby dollars can go towards a local store AND it's way more convenient. Of course this doesn't apply to folks without an LGS, all sympathy to them.

 

It's also funny seeing this reaction as someone who's followed the sneaker/trainer market over the past few years. Nike specifically has really tuned their marketing and promotion engine around releasing hyped shoes as limited runs and selling them out. It can sometimes be a real boon to retailers to get all the money up front and not have to slowly manage inventory selling periodically over a longer period of time.

 

This marketing model works and it's not surprising GW is doing it, but I understand people feeling a sense of loss, entitlement or frustration over the behaviour of this company that makes such a beloved product. I find it easier to stomach when I consider that a huge corporation knows their retail business better than I do, and that most decisions are made based on the bottom line. I can stop theorycrafting and ascribing negativity or emotions that aren't there and focus on what I love about the hobby.

 

Re: the rest of the drama, the same approach applies. I'd like to believe that there are at least some individuals at GW who care about "doing the right thing" (according to my/their values) as that makes me a more committed fan, but I wouldn't be surprised if moves like this were a purely fiscal decision intended to protect their brand.

 

I think people might be surprised how diverse the fanbase is considering the demographic of boards like this. MTG for example is 50/50 male to female in WotC's sales but women are very underrepresented in the tournament scene and on Reddit, etc. However the company knows which side their bread is buttered on and focuses on diversity initiatives and publicly distancing itself from individuals who don't fit into that mold, precisely because us tournament players are only a small part of the community (and are notoriously cheap  ).

 

Once you consider that yourself and the people you know might not be actually representative of GW's current (or future, desired) customer base, moves like this might seem less like conscious attempts to alienate their audience and more like prudent moves to improve their brand identity.

 

TL;DR: Your hobby should be fun and relaxing, and if these issues make you angry, I promise it's not worth it. GW isn't acting to piss you off, they are making business decisions they believe are intelligent, and by all accounts they're very profitable. If those decisions seem questionable to you, maybe there is something you're not considering about the demographics of the hobby or retail markets.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Alcyon

[Rik Lightstar]

@ Bung, not gonna quote you're entire wall of text, but where are you getting 1500 copies from?

 

There were 4 independent stockists in the UK that had at least 300 each.

 

Wayland Games

Goblin Gaming

The Outpost

Darksphere

 

So that's 1200, UK webstore will have had at least as many, more likely at least twice as many.

 

Rik

[Oxydo]

The 1500 are from how many LE rulebooks they made. Edited July 12, 2020 by Oxydo

[Bung]

@ Bung, not gonna quote you're entire wall of text, but where are you getting 1500 copies from?

 

There were 4 independent stockists in the UK that had at least 300 each.

 

Wayland Games

Goblin Gaming

The Outpost

Darksphere

 

So that's 1200, UK webstore will have had at least as many, more likely at least twice as many.

 

Rik

I am Not talking about the actual Box but there has been alot of stuff limted from GW that way, but mostly books but some boxes too over the years.

The new Kal Jerico novel was limited to 1250 copies in the GW site for example.

[Marshal Loss]

I don't have a problem with the YouTube malarkey or the statement on intolerance. What I will say is that completely ignoring yesterday's fiasco and instead putting out a generic Necron lore article today instead of addressing what happened and outlining the future of 9th edition for the community was, categorically, the wrong thing to do. Weak stuff.

[Rik Lightstar]

I don't have a problem with the YouTube malarkey or the statement on intolerance. What I will say is that completely ignoring yesterday's fiasco and instead putting out a generic Necron lore article today instead of addressing what happened and outlining the future of 9th edition for the community was, categorically, the wrong thing to do. Weak stuff.

I'm expecting a post tomorrow afternoon after a particularly either uncomfortable or self-congratulatory Monday meeting.

 

We have no idea how they're viewing it internally, but that will very much lead how they decide to spin it.

 

I'd also be surprised if they didn't announce a second wave of stock coming in and they're likely pushing their shipping contractors for rigid timescales so they can give genuine dates for when this will be available.

 

Rik

[Ubiquitous1984]

The 1500 are from how many LE rulebooks they made.

They made 2000 of those. 

[Marshal Loss]

 

I don't have a problem with the YouTube malarkey or the statement on intolerance. What I will say is that completely ignoring yesterday's fiasco and instead putting out a generic Necron lore article today instead of addressing what happened and outlining the future of 9th edition for the community was, categorically, the wrong thing to do. Weak stuff.

I'm expecting a post tomorrow afternoon after a particularly either uncomfortable or self-congratulatory Monday meeting.

 

We have no idea how they're viewing it internally, but that will very much lead how they decide to spin it.

 

I'd also be surprised if they didn't announce a second wave of stock coming in and they're likely pushing their shipping contractors for rigid timescales so they can give genuine dates for when this will be available.

 

Rik

 

You may well be right. I'm of the opinion that they should have put out something yesterday or today about it - even if it was just to say "we know many of you are disappointed, and we'll be back on (x) day with more wonderful epic incredible best box ever most exciting thing since sliced bread 40k for everybody to look forward to. We can also confirm that (there will be a second wave/there won't be a second wave but there are great value starter sets coming out), which will be discussed in greater detail in the near future." This would have pulled the rug out from under the scalpers almost immediately.

 

As it is, just ignoring it for a couple of days is, frankly, pretty pathetic. GW gets a lot of hate, some justified, much of it not, but I've no idea what possessed them to simply act like there hadn't been a 40k release on Saturday at all instead of getting ahead of the curve. Bizarre.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Marshal Loss