Thoughts on GW's recent decisions?

[Vermintide]

GW are a business. I don't owe them my loyalty, and they don't owe me goodwill.

 

I was glad to see them making something of a stand against certain odious segments of the fanbase, who are undoubtedly unwelcome; however let us not pretend that was anything but brand image maintenance on their part.

 

Their habits as a retailer have not always been prefect. But neither have my habits as a customer, if you know what I mean ;)

[Brother-Captain Gilead]

 

 

*snip*

*snip*

 

*snip*

 

As it is, just ignoring it for a couple of days is, frankly, pretty pathetic. GW gets a lot of hate, some justified, much of it not, but I've no idea what possessed them to simply act like there hadn't been a 40k release on Saturday at all instead of getting ahead of the curve. Bizarre.

 

 

This part gets me. If you launch something on a Saturday, especially something that is the newest edition of your flagship product, you have the comms team ready to put out a statement if necessary and you have all the required people who have the authority / mandate to dictate what is in that statement on call if necessary. In my professional life I have worked in facilitating mergers and acquisitions. When the critical days are coming, no matter if it is a weekend or if it is a bank holiday or if it is Christmas, you always have the bigwigs next to their phones and available if decisions are needed. This isn't quite like that, this is just a launch of a new product, but the same rules should apply here, this is corporate communications 101.

[Bung]

 

 

The 1500 are from how many LE rulebooks they made.

They made 2000 of those.

Not much difference for a product offered Worldwide.

But its a number of old releases.

[mughi3]

Nobody thinks racism is OK in the hobby (by the dictionary definition of the term) but because this is about GW behavior the release fiasco is a fresh wound, so it will come up. 

[Joe]

As it is, just ignoring it for a couple of days is, frankly, pretty pathetic. GW gets a lot of hate, some justified, much of it not, but I've no idea what possessed them to simply act like there hadn't been a 40k release on Saturday at all instead of getting ahead of the curve. Bizarre.

 

The articles they publish over the weekend are pre-scheduled and published by the site software at the appropriate time - if you were expecting a written response from the company when the staff involved with publishing said content are spending time with their families or relaxing then you're being completely unreasonable. Beyond that, senior management will need to sit down and discuss what went wrong, take stock of the community feedback and then draft a response to the situation.

 

It takes more than the five minute job some people are expecting.

[Petitioner's City]

I think what happened with Thomas Parrott is very upsetting, and actually a bad decision GW shouldn't have done (https://twitter.com/parrotttd/status/1281584694551875585?s=19). Rather awful if indeed what occurred.

[Raven1]

 

 

although again I can't understand the Indomitus box thing, if it isn't a production/logistics issue from Covid, then either their internal demand forecasting people need to rethink their approach or whoever made the call to ignore that forecast and lowball the production needs to rethink his/her approach

I think it was a combination of all of it to be honest. The owner of my FLGS said that the US received 30-35k boxes of Indomitus for 3rd-party retailers and those were sold and allotted to the 3rd party vendors within a week. And according to his rep, that's more than Dark Imperium got orders for in three years.

 

Because we have to remember: The Covid thing caused their factories and warehouses to shut down for months, so they probably only had a set amount made before the shutdowns happened. And since the books are printed in China....

I think that us super important to remember. The US got 3 times of one set than the starter get for the entire run.

 

If I were in a top spot. I would venture 3x the total order of the last starter box in the first shipment would be a financial misstep.

 

Forecasting popularity is such a difficult thing. Look at Star Wars 7 for example. Who would bet their finances that Captain Phasma would end up being a nobody and some fancy boy twirling a lightening stick would capture everyone's imagination. Or the fact that Rey toys were sold out and stores had shelves of Kylo Ren.

 

Again with the star wars theme. The demand for toys so far outstretched supply for A New Hope, the toy makers literally sold empty boxes with IOUs while manufacturing could be set up.

 

GW isnt some evil empire. It is a business run by human beings who are capable of making mistakes and miscalculations from the Janitors to the corporate management.

 

On top of everything else we are in a pandemic that will define a generation and likely to have negative impacts across all sorts of sectors for a least a decade.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Raven1

[Joe]

On the pandemic thing - the miniature wargames sector is currently undergoing a bit of a boom as a result of people being stuck at home, having (some) disposable income and a lot of time on their hands. Practically every major company in the UK (Warlord Games, North Star, Gripping Beast, Footsore, etc) have mentioned difficulties keeping up with the increased quantity of orders they've been receiving, especially with even less staff in to process them.

 

With Games Workshop being top of the totem pole and presumably having implemented even stricter work-place precautions can't be helping a great deal.

[Master Issodon]

Some interesting replies to read through. Thank you all for keeping it civil.

[Sete]

Artificial scarcity.

They made enough for a clean profit, sold out, now we will have the multipart kits releasing along side the codex, and we will be buying them at a premium price, and they dont get warehouse space taken by unsold boxes of indomitus.

 

Or maybe it was a really small boat.

Edited July 12, 2020 by Sete

[Matcap86]

I think the Indomitus thing is pretty much a perfect storm for GW:

 

-They've been doing limited runs and using FOMO marketing for a while now, whipping up people in a frenzy. This kinda blew up in their face.

- maybe they wanted to manage expectations by telling people it would technically be a limited run, like the titanicus and Sob sets. But not to worry, we made enough. Instead people went !LIMITED! and scalpers got primed for it, even those outside the hobby; In our local marketplace we've had a dude who usually only sells limited run clothing, suddenly drop 15 boxes for 250 euros a piece.

- 1000s of people stuck at home with disposable income and a need for a new indoor hobby.

- launch of a new edition.

- revamp of a xenos range that needed it.

- production and shipping facilities handicapped by the pandemic.

- best value proposition for a boxed set in a while, which was known in advance due to leaks. Hyping people and scalpers even further.

- :cuss trade accounts dumping their stock on eBay and blaming GW for not delivering.

 

I mean not only GWs site suffered, almost every big name discount retailers site crashed and shops were selling more copies of this box in minutes, than the whole 8th edition run of dark imperium. Even if they doubled production it would've been gone in half an hour instead of 15 minutes. It's hard to plan for that.

 

I do hope they smack some scalpers bottoms, like they did in the past, because those people just suck.

[Bat33.1]

No point commenting on Arch - it's been done for weeks elsewhere.

 

One thing I've heard about Indomitus, and GW spelt it out during the promo period, this is not the 9th edition starter box. They repeatedly said it's for fans of the game to get a special box to celebrate 9th edition.

The real starter box replacement for Dark Imperium has not even been seen by the GW store managers yet. The people I've heard from believe this was the big mistake in this release because if both boxes were ready to go then everyone would have got a box, maybe not the one they wanted but they'd have a product on release day. The date I've heard is 25th August but it's with added salt because the staff are yet to be given details. 

This may well be a pandemic related issue although the GW UK factory was only closed for around 3 weeks while production lines were made Covid secure. They were not closed for 3 months but no doubt working at a reduced rate, and other parts of the plant such as warehousing may well have been different. I'm speculating now that it could be delivery of the product packaging and rule books which are mostly China made that has delayed the release of the new starter box. I wouldn't be surprised if it's a lower price than Indomitus with some slightly different content and it's almost certain they will make the smaller starter boxes at different price points later. 

 

You could equally make the argument that GW deliberately staggered the release to make sure Indomitus sold out before the starter box arrived.

[tangoalphatwo]

Obviously with the amount of sheer posting on this topic on this board alone people aren’t happy. And that’s the issue. So we all have to agree to that first. I’m tired of people who either got it or didn’t want it telling those that did want it and missed out, “too bad.” Then don’t post. Go away. You add nothing.

 

I am of the opinion GW should have put out a statement yesterday addressing this mess, but after seeing a few cooler heads on here, sure, I’ll give them the benefit of waiting to tomorrow to address the issue.

 

That said, this was a huge mess. GW is a company and are in the business of making money. That’s it. Plain and simple. They may employ people who have a passion for the fluff, the minis, whatever. But it boils down to they are looking to make the most amount of money as possible. It’s that simple. We can discuss that whole concept on another forum or over beers or whatever. It is what it is.

 

So. If people aren’t happy with their business practices, give them hell! Don’t buy their products. Complain. Do everything you can to show them your discontent. Downvote their videos. If it affects their company image, good! That’s how you get them to change. So bitch away on here, or on every forum you can find. Blow up their Facebook page. If you think I’m being extreme, remember, they don’t care about you, they care about your dollars. If they tell you otherwise they are lying to you.If you want change, that’s how you get.

 

I’m making no judgment, just tellin’ it how it is.

[Blank Dave]

That definitely sucks. Remember, there will be other chances to get these models and things will work out eventually, more or less, yeah? Deep breaths and all that.

 

No, it was more the case of I want to hit the F-not-so-LGS and get some toys, but my charge wanted to sleep/watch TV and they can't be left unattended for long.  That was out, so I decided I'd pony up for Indominus and...

 

Basically, my chance to get some stress relief went "nope, nope, nope."

[MegaVolt87]

I didn't seem to get a response on this in th closed thread so will re-state here-

 

How many players in Germany missed out on Indomnitus ? When the OZ orders went live, there was an option to buy the German language version on the OZ GW store, which as far as I could tell also sold out also according to the site soon after listing. I find it odd, considering there isn't really a big German population as far as I know in OZ, the only Germans I have encountered are tourists, very few seem to live here as far as I can tell. If there was a regional sharing of allocations, it would make more sense to see the Japanese version (is there a Chinese language one?) instead, as we have a much bigger pop of people of that background. Its all very odd. 

[Lexington]

Funny enough, most of this seems fine to me. The “Warhammer is for everyone” statement made me flat-out laugh at the cleverness of that last line. The Indomitus box fiasco gets an eye-roll. I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that the supply was more limited by Covid than anything intentional, and we’ll see the contents of the box repurposed for sale in a dozen different ways soon enough.

 

The treatment of Thomas Parrott has inordinately bummed me out, though. It’s awful, especially given the outreach he was continually doing for BL/GW on his own Twitter account. Put me off of an entire Space Marine army that I’d been busy planning for a few weeks now. Not sure if or when I’ll get back to it, which is a real shame, but I’d feel queasy giving GW my money right now.

[Toxichobbit]

 

I don't have a problem with the YouTube malarkey or the statement on intolerance. What I will say is that completely ignoring yesterday's fiasco and instead putting out a generic Necron lore article today instead of addressing what happened and outlining the future of 9th edition for the community was, categorically, the wrong thing to do. Weak stuff.

I'm expecting a post tomorrow afternoon after a particularly either uncomfortable or self-congratulatory Monday meeting.

 

We have no idea how they're viewing it internally, but that will very much lead how they decide to spin it.

 

I'd also be surprised if they didn't announce a second wave of stock coming in and they're likely pushing their shipping contractors for rigid timescales so they can give genuine dates for when this will be available.

 

Rik

 

I'd put money on it being;

 

• Indomitus was a huge success, showing that 9th will be the best edition of 40k ever and now is the best time to get into it! Insert other self promotion as necessary.
• Sales exceeded out expectations and sold out within X minutes/hours (depends on how they spin the data). But don't worry, there are still copies available at GW stores. Make sure to get there early on the 25th to secure your copy!
• More self congratulation.

 

I really doubt they'll address this as anything but a success, or acknowledge that they are enabling scalpers and screwing over customers with their behaviour (regardless of whether their behviour is on purpose or just due to pandemic limitations). I also doubt we'll see any mention of a second wave. I think if there is a second wave, it won't be announced until after release. Don't want to risk cutting into bricks and mortar sales.

[Bung]

Thomas Parrott didnt keep his political fews out of his Work.

He isnt an official company speaker but known to work for GW so people could think his opinion is company opinion.

Thats a thing no company can ignore for their own image.

 

If you buy a movie in disk there is Always a disclaimer that the stuff in the interviews is not the opinion of the film company.

 

Maybe not handled the best way possible but something pretty common.

 

In my eyes 70% his own fault for not asking what is ok in social media with the puplic relations team.

[Spacecow]

There are other BL writers that don’t hide their political views either on Twitter.

I’ve read his account of what happened, but we don’t know GW point of view and we’ll probably never will.

Not having read the actual tweets that were reported I don’t know what to think of it. It did seem that Thomas and GW had a conversation about it before the termination. ( from his tweets)

I also have to agree with Toxihobbit on the nature of what they’ll communicate on the Indomitus matter. For them it was a huge success. They made a lot of money in a very short time.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Spacecow

[Brother-Captain Gilead]

 

As it is, just ignoring it for a couple of days is, frankly, pretty pathetic. GW gets a lot of hate, some justified, much of it not, but I've no idea what possessed them to simply act like there hadn't been a 40k release on Saturday at all instead of getting ahead of the curve. Bizarre.

 

The articles they publish over the weekend are pre-scheduled and published by the site software at the appropriate time - if you were expecting a written response from the company when the staff involved with publishing said content are spending time with their families or relaxing then you're being completely unreasonable. Beyond that, senior management will need to sit down and discuss what went wrong, take stock of the community feedback and then draft a response to the situation.

 

It takes more than the five minute job some people are expecting.

 

 

It takes more than the five minute job for sure, but that is why you do some planning and drafting of messages beforehand. When you are launching a new product there isn't really that much you need to plan for, but as I stated earlier it is corporate communications 101 to have some messages prepared and then whatever is needed you push out when you launch a new product, especially a new version of their flagship product. Again, I work in consulting so I have participated in mergers and acquisitions, corporate restructurings and transformations, you sketch out 3-5 of the most likely scenarios and the messages you need to communicate in each of them beforehand and then you have the bigwigs next to their phones during the weekend to align on what is actually sent out and what modifications need to happen to the drafted message before sending it out. It isn't that dissimilar to newspapers having pre-written obituaries for celebrities and politicians that they then tweak on the fly when they hear someone has passed away to reflect the circumstances of their death.

 

In this case all they needed was a pre-drafted message about the massive success of the Indomitus box launch and how happy they are to see the demand in the community for the new box. Then you talk to the people you need to talk to at GW leadership to get them to decide on whether you end it by restating in a conciliatory tone that this was it, you will not get more of the box, but all of the miniatures will be available separately and in a new box set without the rulebook later this year or that you are looking into doing a second printing of the box to ensure that no hobbyist is left without it like they had stated earlier when the box was announced with more information to be shared on the following week.

 

I will probably be accused of backseat quarterbacking here, but again I work in supporting companies doing these things, having a communications team planning and preparing for these things around a major product launch isn't a major ask, it's business as usual which makes the absence of preparations so weird.

[derLumpi]

Pretty much this. I used to work for a big online payment provider and we always had messages prepared when a new product was launched. All the important decision makers were on stand by for guidance or just to say 'yes' or 'no' to certain things.

 

I won't belive that nobody at GW HQ who calls the shots had no eye on this launch. Excited to see how they will handle this.

[RWJP]

The "Warhammer is for everyone" statement was totally necessary and frankly long overdue. Similarly, the act of distancing themselves from one certain video creator was also totally necessary and long overdue.

The BL author... Well, I don't think anyone has enough info to make a call. All the tweets related to it seem to be deleted, so we only have the author's word on what happened and nothing else.

The Indomitus launch was an abject failure. After GW's apology over the SoB Box, and all their comments about how many copies of Indomitus they had made, this situation simply shouldn't have happened. Regardless of whether it was down to dodgy trade accounts, failing to estimate demand, or just general greed, GW seriously need to review their practices for limited edition releases going forward. There should always be a limit of one per person, and that should be enforced by checking combinations of various details, such as name, telephone number, email address, postal address etc. Scalpers won't be able to get as much stock if they have to create a new name, email address, telephone number, bank account and postal address for every single individual order.

Alternatively, GW needs to turn these Limited Edition releases into a version of "Made to Order". Allow pre-orders for a set period of time (again only one per person) and then start manufacturing once you know how many you need.

[mughi3]

There are other BL writers that don’t hide their political views either on Twitter.

I’ve read his account of what happened, but we don’t know GW point of view and we’ll probably never will.

Not having read the actual tweets that were reported I don’t know what to think of it. It did seem that Thomas and GW had a conversation about it before the termination. ( from his tweets)

I also have to agree with Toxihobbit on the nature of what they’ll communicate on the Indomitus matter. For them it was a huge success. They made a lot of money in a very short time.

From what i understand it wasn't just that, he directly attacked a person who was also a GW SHAREHOLDER (rather he knew it or not at the time ). as a shareholder they contacted GW directly to lodge a complaint. well within their right since they are part owners of the company.  it was nothing more than damage control. could they have chosen a less severe punishment? possibly, but that's their call on a corporate level. 

 

 

 

 

The "Warhammer is for everyone" statement was totally necessary and frankly long overdue. Similarly, the act of distancing themselves from one certain video creator was also totally necessary and long overdue.

To state something everybody already understood to be true was not necessary  especially when they cap it with an insult..."were super tolerant, except for you" is a terrible business practice. alienating any customer should not be in the best interest of  a business that sells consumer goods. 

 

Also a ham fisted and legally inept claim of copyright on something they cannot copyright (and historically have not enforced)  because they dislike a particular person and act with malice towards that person specifically is never the right direction. just like with chapter house studios. if this went to court they would loose (but make every other fan content creators life hell in the process). i don't want to see that. i want to see content like astartes.

 

Don't alienate your customer base, don't piss off your fans. it is never a good idea to drive away the source of your income. disney learned this lesson the hard way with star wars. 

Edited July 13, 2020 by mughi3

[Redcomet]

The "Warhammer is for everyone" statement was totally necessary and frankly long overdue. Similarly, the act of distancing themselves from one certain video creator was also totally necessary and long overdue.

 

The BL author... Well, I don't think anyone has enough info to make a call. All the tweets related to it seem to be deleted, so we only have the author's word on what happened and nothing else.

 

The Indomitus launch was an abject failure. After GW's apology over the SoB Box, and all their comments about how many copies of Indomitus they had made, this situation simply shouldn't have happened. Regardless of whether it was down to dodgy trade accounts, failing to estimate demand, or just general greed, GW seriously need to review their practices for limited edition releases going forward. There should always be a limit of one per person, and that should be enforced by checking combinations of various details, such as name, telephone number, email address, postal address etc. Scalpers won't be able to get as much stock if they have to create a new name, email address, telephone number, bank account and postal address for every single individual order.

 

Alternatively, GW needs to turn these Limited Edition releases into a version of "Made to Order". Allow pre-orders for a set period of time (again only one per person) and then start manufacturing once you know how many you need.

My take on this Indomitus thing. They should keep any product that is limited to their webstore and own stores only. 1 per customer limit. 

 

Made to order would have a looooong time table though. Probably 6 months or more. There is a reason kickstarters often take a year to ship, even though all the design work is done,

[MrSpoon]

Swinging back to the OP, I believe the original question/statement is misleading regarding the GW statement and their actions regarding their trademark. The original post is neither a direct quote or does it include enough information to provide the full context of the events; my concern is that it could be misinterpreted by those who haven't been keeping up with current events. My personal opinion is that a topic with such a clear bias or unclear intent should either be removed by the moderators or be edited to include some form of fact check comment. 

 

In regards to the weekends events relating to Indomitus, it was a mess. It's sad that demand exceeded supply by such a great extent for such a key release. I just hope that scalpers get their comeuppance this week and GW have an announcement to nullify the profits they intend to make. If they do, I just feel sad for those who have panic purchased off of them already.

 

Luckily I managed to secure 2 copies from a very new LGS. There have been a few hiccups, and I'm concerned that GW may not supply as promised, but I'm keeping my fingers crossed.  I almost feel guilty selling the necron elements of the box for just under half the cost of the box given the current situation, but I will to make it affordable for myself.