Emperor's Gene-Seed?

[Cryptix]

Were the GK retconned to not use the Emperor's geneseed?

[War Angel]

Were the GK retconned to not use the Emperor's geneseed?

Not really the place to ask, but I think official lore says they do, but official lore also says that the emperor created geneseed to make the primarchs, so it’s not something he actually has....

[Blindhamster]

they dont use the emperors geneseed, its purely in setting hyperbole, considering he literally doesn't have "geneseed", he MIGHT have made a new special one for them, but seems unlikely when the GK project is pretty much entirely Malcadores efforts

[Petitioner's City]

Yes "emperor's geneseed" is a misnomer; the Emperor didn't have geneseed, unlike the primarichs who were engineered with it. And the emperor spent so much of the heresy on the webway throne that I can't imagine how he could have been heavily involved in the mechanics of the Grey Knights' foundation, nor were the GK (or knights errant) part of the emperor's masterplan for humanity.

 

Some things just feel like the kind of myth that would be said about the order and/or perpetuated by them themselves.

[Telepatrick]

Well, 8 ed. Codex literally says next:

"Grey Knights were born of a new gene-seed, one without flaw of those that had gone before, and which carried the gift of the Emperor's own flesh and soul."

Edited July 13, 2020 by Telepatrick

[Skywrath]

The Grey Knight geneseed is from the Emperor himself. That and seeing how the daemons refer to the Grey Knights specifically as the Sons of the Anathema, makes that theory the reality. To my knowledge I don't recall deamons refering to other Space Marines as that, it seems to be Grey Knight specific. Which in turn proves that biologically speaking they are the truest of emperor's son's.

 

Not to mention, seeing how a regular Grey Knight eats a regular librarian for breakfast, and the emperor being renowned as the greatest of psykers, wouldn't it make sense that the geneseed increases a grey Knight aspirants psychic ability? Which in turn suppports the above.

 

So yes, with all that in mind, the Grey Knights geneseed is directly from the Emperor himself.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Skywrath

[Valerian]

It says straight up in three different places in the 8e codex that the Grey Knights gene-seed is derived from the Emperor. We don’t get the specifics of how that happened, but he figured out a way to do it.

[Karhedron]

The Horus Heresy short story "Last Son of Prospero" gives a very strong indication on the origins of the Grey Knights.

 

The loyalist Thousand Son Sorcerer Revuel Arvida returned to Terra with the White Scars but is dying of the Flesh Change. In an effort to save him and also to create a psyker strong enough to sit on the Golden Throne. Malcador the Sigilite fuses Arvida with the soul-shard of Magnus the Red that was left on Terra after Russ shattered Magnus's physical body. The effort is only partially successful but the ritual creates a new being more than an Astartes but less than a Primarch. A sort of super-Thousand Son, free of the Flesh Change who introduces himself as Ianus. In older fluff the first Grand Master of the Grey Knights was named Janus.

 

We know that Ianus was in command of the Grey Knights during the War of the Beast in M32 and he is credited with having some of the dazzling effect on those around him as a Primarch. It is noticeable that Thousand Sons and Grey Knights basically get the same special psychic rules.

 

This heavily implies that the Grey Knights used stabilised Thousand Sons geneseed taken from Ianus. This makes a lot more sense that Geneseed taken from the Emperor since he wouldn't have any.

[Valerian]

"Where the other Space Marine Chapters were built on upon existing stock, the Grey Knights were born of a new gene-seed, one without the flaws of those that had gone before, and which carried the gift of the Emperor's own flesh and soul.  8e Codex, page 7.

 

"When Malcador the Sigilite took the first Grey Knights to Titan, one of the relics he carried with him was rumored to be the ancient force sword.  Along with his pure genetic legacy and psychic power, it was one of the Emperor's gifts to the newly founded Chapter."  8e Codex, page 27.

 

"They create germ cells known as gene-seed needed to mould new recruits into mighty Adeptus Astartes.  This is the lifeblood of the Grey Knights, and is their genetic link to the Emperor himself."  8e Codex, page 37.

 

 

Pretty clear to me, folks.

 

Val

[Lord_Caerolion]

The Horus Heresy short story "Last Son of Prospero" gives a very strong indication on the origins of the Grey Knights.

 

The loyalist Thousand Son Sorcerer Revuel Arvida returned to Terra with the White Scars but is dying of the Flesh Change. In an effort to save him and also to create a psyker strong enough to sit on the Golden Throne. Malcador the Sigilite fuses Arvida with the soul-shard of Magnus the Red that was left on Terra after Russ shattered Magnus's physical body. The effort is only partially successful but the ritual creates a new being more than an Astartes but less than a Primarch. A sort of super-Thousand Son, free of the Flesh Change who introduces himself as Ianus. In older fluff the first Grand Master of the Grey Knights was named Janus.

 

We know that Ianus was in command of the Grey Knights during the War of the Beast in M32 and he is credited with having some of the dazzling effect on those around him as a Primarch. It is noticeable that Thousand Sons and Grey Knights basically get the same special psychic rules.

 

This heavily implies that the Grey Knights used stabilised Thousand Sons geneseed taken from Ianus. This makes a lot more sense that Geneseed taken from the Emperor since he wouldn't have any.

 

Yes, and 

the founding Grey Knights were also taken from other Legions too, they're not just Thousand Sons.

[Skywrath]

 

The Horus Heresy short story "Last Son of Prospero" gives a very strong indication on the origins of the Grey Knights.

 

The loyalist Thousand Son Sorcerer Revuel Arvida returned to Terra with the White Scars but is dying of the Flesh Change. In an effort to save him and also to create a psyker strong enough to sit on the Golden Throne. Malcador the Sigilite fuses Arvida with the soul-shard of Magnus the Red that was left on Terra after Russ shattered Magnus's physical body. The effort is only partially successful but the ritual creates a new being more than an Astartes but less than a Primarch. A sort of super-Thousand Son, free of the Flesh Change who introduces himself as Ianus. In older fluff the first Grand Master of the Grey Knights was named Janus.

 

We know that Ianus was in command of the Grey Knights during the War of the Beast in M32 and he is credited with having some of the dazzling effect on those around him as a Primarch. It is noticeable that Thousand Sons and Grey Knights basically get the same special psychic rules.

 

This heavily implies that the Grey Knights used stabilised Thousand Sons geneseed taken from Ianus. This makes a lot more sense that Geneseed taken from the Emperor since he wouldn't have any.

 

Yes, and 

the founding Grey Knights were also taken from other Legions too, they're not just Thousand Sons.

 

 

Pretty much that. While it is fun to speculate about how the geneseed of the emperor was created, at the end of the day, even traitor geneseed, is derived from the Emperor himself. Now let's entertain that theory about how it was created, when some of the people pointed out that the Emperor is sitting comatose on the Golden Throne. I speculate the creation of the current GK gene-seed is similar to that to a custodians, however less elaborate. 

[Lord_Caerolion]

The thing is, the Custodians don't have geneseed. Their process is far more intimate than that of the creation of the Astartes, from what we've been shown. However, I do think that the Grey Knights use the Emperors "geneseed", in that his genetic profile was used as the base for their organs, rather than a Primarch. After all, the Primarchs themselves don't have geneseed, they're just the template that was used to create the Astartes geneseed.