9th Ed points - Knights and Admech

[DeStinyFiSh]

To be honest, I think adding a singe Patrol of Ad Mech (or Guards, Talons, Marines etc.) opens enough options and is only 2 CP.

And since you only need 1 HQ and 1 Troop you don't have to over-commit to that allied faction, you can just sprinkle in whats best for your game.

[Clingy]

In 8th I took a guard Batallion, an Admech Batallion and then I had two full payload basilisks (flat 3 damage) shelling the enemy

 

with my 3 crusaders running up causing problems. It wasn’t marine tier but it was reasonably strong.

 

Now with points hikes and the changes to CP that’s not possible.

 

A patrol doesn’t open up much. Max 3 squads of troops. 2 heavy slots. No way to get 2 full payload basilisks without spending nearly 10CP on detachments.

 

Mono knights will just lose 1-2 knights and then it’s curtains for losing on objectives.

 

I’m back to the drawing board on this one but trying to assemble something that can cover AT, bodies, and volume of fire. It’s proving tough

[Focslain]

First off I just noticed that the twin-meltagun and heavy flamer is missing from the list. I'm guessing that that are 0 as well since they only come on the dominus chassis and the AGC respectively?

 

If that is the case my old tournament list is still viable.

 

My group is not going to be happy about this.

[hermanista]

Cawls Wrath/Cold Eradication Castellan with 4 missles,

rfbc Crusader,

warden,

errant with fist.

3 ironstorms

2k on the dot going by the points above.

 

Rfbc Crusader with Ironstorm 515

Errant with fist and Ironstorm 440

Warden with Ironstorm 445

Errant with Ironstorm 435

Moirax with twin Lightning Locks 165

 

2k again.

 

And of little dudes

 

2x Helverin 350

3x Moirax DLL 495

3x Moirax DLL 495

3x Moirax DLL 495

Warglaive with Melta 165

 

As said by clingy board control will be important, but with the new ability to step over screens in the movement phase, at least we can play more aggressive than before.

[Clingy]

Oh yeah, it’s not all bad. It’s just taking some adjusting to get something that can work.

 

I’m not sure going 4 big knights is the way thought yet.

 

I’m thinking of trying this as Krast.

 

 

Crusader headmans and first knight + Missile pod

Warden endless fury + Missile pod

Preceptor helm of dominus + Missile pod

3x warglaive

1x helverin

 

Mine are painted as Taranis but on paper some of the shine has worn off.

 

5 turns means less time to get stuff done.

 

Taking less stuff and going pure means the clock really is on to get some points on the board on the early rounds

 

Smaller board and a reliance on scrapping for objectives give could give melee a bit more of a nudge.

 

No reroll means our darkest hour at 3CP can....well fudge off (seriously gw, patch this back to 2CP as it was intended. The triple galant + prenerf unlimited guard CP battery has been dead for years. That’s why our strats received a bump)

 

I’ve been a dirty souper for too long. Time to try enjoying a pure knight steak

[Colonel Cross]

Looking through the AdMech point changes (whether through the link posted earlier, or via YouTubers talking about them), I feel like we got off rather easy. None of the increases feel overly drastic to me. Plus, add in the fact that we're not being forced to run duel battalions anymore just to get CP, those extra points we used to use on HQs and more Skitarii can be used towards other things we may want to bring.

 

If you check out this Goonhammer article, you'll see AdMech was in the top 5 armies with most overall % points increases.  They gave us a middle of the road ranking for points increases, really only because they saw the Engine War buffs as incredibly strong (which in my opinion, they were quite strong).  However, several units have also taken the nerf bat to the teeth like Ruststalkers, Infiltrators, and most notably, Dragoons (RIP as they were one of my favorite units).  The Skorpius and Dunerider were both hit really hard, so we'll have to see how it shakes out, but I'm very hesitant to take my Duneriders anymore at 100pts per model.  

 

Just 2 weeks ago I perfected an 8th 2k list using a Mars Brigade.  Now that is not possible and I will have slightly fewer CPs upfront.  Back to the drawing board ...

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

I don't have the Admech points yet, but if I get them I'll add them to the first post.

 

I do have the Imperial Knights though.

 

Helverin 170

Warglaive 150

Castellan 545

Crusader 395

Gallant 330

Errant 310

Warden 395

Valiant 535

Paladin 310

Preceptor 370

 

Ironstorm 15

Stubber 5

Meltagun 10

RFBC 100

Stormspear 45

Thermal 75

Icarus 30

Twin siegebreaker 35

Shieldbreaker 10

Reaper chainsword 30

Thunderstrike 35

Avenger 0

Conflag 0

Volcano lance 0

Plasma decimator 0

Harpoon 0

What about the Heavy flamer? Is it included in the wardens pt cost? Use to be 17..

 

Multi laser?

Edited July 16, 2020 by Lord Lorne Walkier

[Clingy]

Stock crusader clocks in at 475 I believe.

 

Flamer is now 14 points

Just played my first game of 9th with mono knights

 

My thoughts

 

Post

 

Just had my first game pure knights

 

3 questoris and 4 armigers.

 

Thoughts

 

 

1. I miss that 6th turn to rack up extra points

2. This is still very much a shooty edition. Melee means you move off objectives

3. Knights struggle for good secondaries. Other armies get easy 15VP ones like banner, kill titanic, psychic etc

4. Pure knights lacks the volume of fire, durability and ability to play the missions. Even if your doing respectable moving and killing your opponent can run away with it

5. The fixed board, objectives, and mission is nice.

6. Obscuring terrain- well you would almost wish to be 17 wounds. Tournament organisers will have to specify terrain types cause voting for obscuring terrain is akin to turkies voting for Christmas.

7. Allies might be useful but remains a tricky equation on what to take

8. It’s great to be gaming again

 

 

 

Automatically Appended Next Post:

(Played against tau for reference)

 

 

Automatically Appended Next Post:

9. I went second, it’s a first turn game more then ever

 

Final score 81-63

[Lord Lorne Walkier]

These Knight points bump are a real clap to ye oll booty cheeks.

[Clingy]

So got a list I want to try

 

What do you think of

 

Stygies patrol

 

1x enginseer

3x vanguard (5 man squad)

3x termite drill

 

Taranis superheavy

 

2x crusaders

1x crusader with Ironstorm missile pod (WL)

 

General plan is to plonk 5 man squads in a drill and have them sit on 2-3 objectives whilst I push my knights up and bring the fight to the enemy

 

Maybe deepstrike 1 of the drills to be aggressive and just try and hold 2 objectives for a few easy turns

 

Terrible idea?

Edited July 19, 2020 by Clingy

[hermanista]

3 errants, 2 with ironstorms.

2 gallants.

 

5 horsemen of the stampy apocalypse at 2k on the nose.

 

Another good for a laugh list and not as held back as in 8th because of being able to fight upwards without needing the strat.

[Clingy]

That’s over 2k I think herm but

[Mandragola]

My plan for my knights in 8th was to take 4 big guys, all with Avengers, and a rusty 17 of Graia dudes. I had a lance of 3 taranis knights (TC Crusader, Warden with fist and Castigator) plus a solo Krastsader with RFBC and Headsman's Mark. I did pretty well with this prior to the Marine codex coming out, going 5:0 at the LGT last year. Then I switched back to my Crimson Fists so I haven't really used knights in the marine meta.

 

So now we have 9th edition and a lot is different. I don't think the terrain rules hurt us as much as a lot of people are saying. ITC events tended to feature some big tall L-shaped things that could hide most things, but they didn't tend to hide knights. I actually think it'll be harder for people to hide from us now, as they won't be able to go inside a building and be out of LoS. Standing behind it is all very well, but then they aren't in cover, and they've got problems if any knight does draw a line on them.

 

Weirdly, it seems that now I can replace my Krastsader with a Castellan... so I will. It'll have Cawl's Wrath and Cold Eradication, and it will be *checks notes* extremely dangerous. Healing a wound a turn is a nice bonus for a plasma-spewing knight and it doesn't have to power up Cawl's Wrath anyway to shoot most Primaris. I think that this guy should probably have two sets of siegebreaker cannons and only a couple of missiles, particularly 

 

The downside is that I won't be able to bring any supporting infantry without it costing me CPs. This isn't the end of the world. Half the reason they were there in the first place was to give me CPs. They were pretty useful in some games, against things like GSC, but just gave away free kills for people like Tau. It's a slight shame to lose them, but I can live with it. many of the enemies that I'd have wanted to screen against are kind of gone anyway, and I think smite spam will have suffered too, so there might not be so much need to worry about Mortal Wounds.

 

I'm considering whether it's worth paying a couple of CPs to bring along something like an assassin in an auxiliary detachment. An infantry character would be helpful and a Culexus could be a bit of a nuisance for psykers. In fact the Culexus might be the guy I put into my list as standard because he's so awkward to kill, so he could run around doing secondaries for me. That would mean downgrading the Castellan to a Crusader though, which I'm disinclined to do.

 

I don't think it makes sense to bring the separate Krastsader any more, as the CP cost is punishing. On top of the 3CPs for the detachment it really needs both a relic and warlord trait. If I take a Taranis knight instead it only needs one of those to make it a character, so overalI I end up 5CPs better off. So in this plan I'll be spending 4 CPs on relics and warlord traits (not entirely sure the combination) and start the game on 8. That's about what I'd have had in 8th with my Battalion, having spent 6 pre-game, but now I get an extra CP every turn. Some problematic opponents, like flyer spam and GSC, have been nerfed into the floor - which is nice.

 

Overall I think my army has become somewhat shootier and tougher, thanks to adding the Castellan, but not especially good at playing for Primary objectives. That looks like making for an interesting challenge. I'm not sure if it just makes IKs a sort of gatekeeper army but I think we might be reasonably good.

 

So here's my draft list. Hopefully these points values are correct! What do you think?

 

Castellan                           620

              4 Missiles          

              Siegebreakers   

              Cawl's Wrath    

              Cold Eradication             

                            

Crusader                           475

              Stubber

              Avenger             

              hvy flamer         

              Thermal Cannon            

              Ion Bulwark      

                            

Crusader                           475

              Stubber

              Avenger             

              hvy flamer         

              Thermal Cannon            

              Endless Fury     

                            

Warden                            430

              Stubber

              Avenger             

              hvy flamer         

              Reaper

              Some warlord trait or relic, not sure what. I could potentially make this guy a freeblade to be obsec, but the penalties for that seem excessive.

 

I'm missing anything that ignores LoS, which is an issue. I could downgrade a Crusader to a Warden to fit in a couple of ironstorm pods (or three), or maybe that second siegebreaker turret for the Castellan. Its Warlord trait and the new strat mean those are quite a lot better than missiles, I think, but also quite a lot more expensive. Right now I think the Thermal Cannon is the best of all these options.

Edited July 23, 2020 by Mandragola

[Clingy]

Hi mandragora great minds think alike

 

The exact list above is one of a few builds I had considered but it’s a shame knight of the cog for RR1 on the Castellan is too much to squeeze in now

 

Without Admech support I always find my Castellan rolls a heap of 1’s and I whiff lol

[Mandragola]

Hmm, good point about knight of the Cog. Trouble with that is you need a patrol to get access to stratagems. I'd happily take a lone Tech priest and call him a Sacristan if it did the job, but having to find 80 points so I could afford a unit of vanguard as well means I wouldn't be able to have all four big guys.

 

I think the better option is to just save your CPs and take it on the chin when you get 1s. You don't always need to overcharge anyway with Cawl's Wrath.

 

Maybe I should give my second Crusader the Taranis relic Thermal Cannon and put Endless Fury on the Warden. Or I could just give him cunning commander to get the CP back. I've used Fury of Mars before a couple of times and it's kind of nice, but really it's the sort of relic you'd only buy against specific opponents - those with a lot of tanks. I'm not sure it's quite good enough to make it now we've got to write relics into our army lists. It doesn't suck. The 2+ armour save would probably be the best option, I think.

[hermanista]

Ahhh balls...

 

Forgot about the other swords needed...

 

Bollocks!

Edited July 23, 2020 by hermanista

[Clingy]

@mand

 

Yeah I often find fury of Mars is a trap. I love it and usually take it. With 9th edition and a smaller board/ emphasis on pushing up its maybe less useful. You are often in melta range for the game anyway

 

@herm. Back to the battlescribe mobile ;)

[Mandragola]

Thinking about it further, I think the better option is probably to downgrade a crusader to a Warden. I can then afford to give all three Questoris Ironstorm pods. In objective games I find those are seriously useful tools.

 

Revised list would be: 

 

                              2000

                             

Castellan                            620

               4 Missiles           

               Siegebreakers   

               Cawl's Wrath     

               Cold Eradication              

                             

Crusader                             490

               Stubber

               Avenger              

               hvy flamer          

               Thermal Cannon              

               Ironstorm           

               Ion Bulwark       

                             

Warden                               445

               Stubber

               Avenger              

               hvy flamer          

               Reaper 

               Ironstorm           

               Sanctuary           

                             

Warden                               445

               Stubber

               Avenger              

               hvy flamer          

               Reaper 

               Ironstorm           

               Endless Fury      

 

I think I ought to be able to manage with just one TC, given that I've got the Castellan there. Overall it seems to make sense to swap 1D6 thermal shots for 3d6 ironstorm shots that don't need LoS.

[BolterZorro]

Nice, this is just the models I have (3 questoris+ castelan+ bunch of little ones)

[Clingy]

Posted this on dakka and Reddit

 

But

 

I just had a fun game with the below against newcrons(using the new leaked obsec rules)

 

Taranis

 

Crusader Errant with stormspear Gallant 4x lightning lock moirax’s

 

I won convincingly but I suspect that’s more down to my opponents bad dice and necrons ability to deal with T8

 

Fun list to play though - going to try it out against a more evil army like marines or something

[Clingy]

For the knight players amongst us.

 

How are we feeling about secondaries? Anyone struggling with pure knights and what to pick?

[Focslain]

For the knight players amongst us.

 

How are we feeling about secondaries? Anyone struggling with pure knights and what to pick?

Not really, it just breaks down to what your facing and picking what you can do from that.

 

Though Shadow Operations and Warpcraft are no go's since we can't do any of them.