Deathwatch 9th edition points

[GrinNfool]

So I did the quick math last night for my list I posted a few weeks back. Outside of a few considerations I’ll mention shortly, my list only went up about 100pts with the new rules, which isn’t too bad. Seeing as my list was initially only ~1670ish points, ending up around ~1780 is fine with me and leaves plenty of room to expand. All told I think this is a solid planning factor for everyone: expect your 8th edition list to go up ~100-150pts

 

As for the considerations:

 

- Still don’t know the cost of FW models so I assumed my Sicaran went up about ~10pts (after adding in the new costs for HBs)

- Corvus: so the vase cost went up 15pts and the Blackstar Launcher is now 0, so I assume that the Launcher is now included in the Corvus base price YET, in 8th a Blackstar launcher (singular) was 15pts but the weapon loadout was for 2X Blackstar Launcher at 30pts so...does that mean we still have to pay 15pts to add the second launcher in 9th OR is it already included in the 15pt price increase? (Which would mean the Launcher loadout actually DROPPED 15pts From 8th to 9th)

- As everyone’s mentioning, VV aren’t looking good to go in KTs so I’ll keep my as an independent squad

- Need to buy terminators to add to KTs...

Corvus is one of the few models to get cheaper no matter the loadout actually.  Which lets be honest it needed, but that doesn't make it not surprising they did that.  140 base + 40 twin LC or AsC 40 mod of your choice 5 cluster 0 rocket or storm strike 0 hurricane if you want it 15 = 200 points w/ hurricane 185 w/o.  Previously the most expensive loadout was 226 and the cheapest was 210 with hurricane and mod 195 w/o either.  So no matter how your bring the corvus now it is cheaper than before.  This is assuming that the points read was accurate, and a mistake wasn't made.  We already have one mistake we know of with the 5 points for hvy bolt pistol, there is a photo of the points page that shows that to infact be 0.  So... with a big IF on the points its one of the very few models to go down in points from 8th to 9th.  IF all of that is true then between that and heavy weapons not getting -1 since its a vehicle the corvus might be a solid vehicle for us again.

Edited July 14, 2020 by GrinNfool

[Roland Durendal]

Yeah, I mean I hope what was posted is accurate, cuz that means my Corvus dropped about 20pts and comes in at 185 now (was 205 before). Which I’m totally fine with bc it needed a points shift to make it more viable.

[leth]

Wow that is a pretty significant drop on its own before adding in that everything else went up. Same for the drop pods and rhinos. 
 

I think that a lot of vehicles will get a bit more viable now since they are huge for missions while also having higher offense. 

[Roland Durendal]

Wow that is a pretty significant drop on its own before adding in that everything else went up. Same for the drop pods and rhinos. 

 

I think that a lot of vehicles will get a bit more viable now since they are huge for missions while also having higher offense.

 

Did drop pods go down? I thought they were still 65pts (which, IMHO is obnoxious. Same with Rhinos. Bring back 5/7th edition costs!!)

[leth]

Sorry, didn’t mean those other two went down, just that relative to other price increases they are down. 

[ashc]

I think the Corvus very much has a place in 9th, along with a kill-team in it.

 

Primaris Fortis teams still look really solid, unsure on standard vets right now though (unless in aforementioned Corvus).

[Mobius0288]

So speaking of Corvus, I built my excel sheet of points. Just to give you an idea of what whole lists look like at 2k (I find that there's people out there that need a holistic visual), I redid an older list I had:

 

Watchmaster

Chaplain

Chaplain w/Jump pack

(x3) 5-man intercessors (stalker boltgun)

(x1) Veteran Kill team (Combi-melta, xenophase, x2 combi-plasma, x4 SS, x4 SB)

Vanguard Vet 5-man (x2 plasma pistol, power sword, twin lightning claws, SS)

Vanguard Vet 5-man (x3 TH, x3 SS)

(x2) 3-man bikers (chainsword, SB)

Corvus Blackstar (Assault Cannon, hurricane bolters, auspex)

Corvus Blackstar (Twin Las, hurricane bolters, auspex)

Mortis Contemptor Dread (Twin Las)

 

Originally had the double battaltion format, but all that to show that you can still fit a good amount of stuff in a 2k sized game. And we still have a good amount of ways to play. I was initially sad about the chaplain dread going away but I don't think its too hard a hit.

 

With Vets, I'm also seeing it easier to fill in with Fortis or just intercessor teams. I'd say Vets are great if you like to capitalize on the drop pods or if you want to deep strike a can-opener squad (combi-melta). Combi-plasmas are still good, especially next to watchmasters.

 

I'm still sorting through mixed Vet kill teams. I do like that we still get fall back and charge, which could mean more usage as a tanky melee unit. You just have to realize it gets expensive rather quickly with not a lot of stratagems to help other than doctrines... or maybe that's enough? And deep striking melee would need to happen turn 2 in order to be optimized with charge buffs and supporting units. Or you can run multiple drop pods but you'll have to take into account a slightly smaller board size, and that a few armies didn't shrink all that much in size (Admech, GSC).

[Roland Durendal]

I’m actually content with where the army is at right now and my own list is looking decent-ish. Really the big thing will be to keep Vet Squads at 5 strong, or if you go over 5, make sure the additions are either Termies or bikes. Solo VV squads look to be pretty good, esp if backed by a jump Chappy.

[Trokair]

Well based on the points in this thread I have updated my default 1,000p list to see where I was and then cut a little to make it fit. I am essentially where I was when the Codex was released and before the point’s changes Chapter Approved 18 and Chapter Approved 19.

[SwashBuccaneer]

I’m actually sort happy now I didn’t jump on the SB/SS Vet train back in 7th. Most of my Vet squads only have 1-2 SSs and no SBs. Hopefully this means the 1 Army I managed to bring with me to Germany is still viable

 

I have no storm bolters modeled on my guys and only 2 actual shields modeled cause my club didn't care if i said they all had storm shields and bolters cause i had them all setup that way points wise. :D 

[RandyB]

 

 

I’m actually sort happy now I didn’t jump on the SB/SS Vet train back in 7th. Most of my Vet squads only have 1-2 SSs and no SBs. Hopefully this means the 1 Army I managed to bring with me to Germany is still viable

I have no storm bolters modeled on my guys and only 2 actual shields modeled cause my club didn't care if i said they all had storm shields and bolters cause i had them all setup that way points wise. :D

That's a good club.

[leth]

I bought a lot of 3d printed stormbolters, so now I am going to see if they fit on my intercessors. Can use them as whatever loadout ends up being the best(other than snipers, using recon marines from 30k for that)
 

After sitting down and looking at the math, I just can’t justify any of the veteran loadout s I was considering. In optimum conditions you were spending 50 points more for 5 less wounds and worse shooting and durability baring the most optimal (for you) shooting conditions. 
 

I can see some value in terminators/bikes but even then I need to deal with them not having OS which I feel like makes a huge difference with top of turn scoring, 

Edited July 15, 2020 by leth

[SwashBuccaneer]

 

 

I’m actually sort happy now I didn’t jump on the SB/SS Vet train back in 7th. Most of my Vet squads only have 1-2 SSs and no SBs. Hopefully this means the 1 Army I managed to bring with me to Germany is still viable

I have no storm bolters modeled on my guys and only 2 actual shields modeled cause my club didn't care if i said they all had storm shields and bolters cause i had them all setup that way points wise.

That's a good club.

 

 

They are an amazing group of people and the store that lets us use the entire basement and has all night gaming sessions on Saturdays (before COVID of course) are great too. Stumbled onto them by accident when I was looking for stores in the area that carried Warhammer stuff when getting into the hobby.

[leth]

FAQ for imperial armor is up, and man.....lots of things are back on the menu.

 

Quad launchers I think are powerful and unlock the leviathan, they also did not get FAQed to the new LOS rules and so can’t be targeted unless they are closest. If you can get them on an objective? The gun still fires while you have them perform an action. Very powerful. It is also a vehicle and so can move and fire the heavy4 8/-3/3 shot

 

I can see the primaris techmarine being the elite that unlocks a scorpius. Scorpius brings quite a lot to the table, it is pure anti primaris indirect fire and there is gonna be a lot of primaris on the table. 

lots of indirect fire will be huge if I understand the LOS and other rules being more prevalent. 
 

Hector Rex is a solid addition for his deny and smite ability. Way better than a librarian. Can see him surviving to use the psychic cast every turn for the 15 points while also being a decent bunker in the backfield. 

 

I believe we can include an inquisitor and an assassin in the same list so that is pretty solid. (Wonder if assassin can be used to unlock relic vehicles lol). I don’t see the culexus/Calicut being that useful, vindicare seems okay but is a CP sink to double shoot every turn and doesn’t ignore the LOS cover rules, I think the Eversor is pretty solid CC option and can probably take on a 5 man primaris unit(or close to it) on its own which is gonna be big for claiming objectives. 
 

I will probably default to Eversor 

Edited July 15, 2020 by leth

[Roland Durendal]

 

I’m actually sort happy now I didn’t jump on the SB/SS Vet train back in 7th. Most of my Vet squads only have 1-2 SSs and no SBs. Hopefully this means the 1 Army I managed to bring with me to Germany is still viable

 

I have no storm bolters modeled on my guys and only 2 actual shields modeled cause my club didn't care if i said they all had storm shields and bolters cause i had them all setup that way points wise. :D

That’s funny cuz I’m in a similar boat...not so much about having a cool club (jealous btw), but mainly I have zero SBs in my duders so don’t have to break anything apart, and all my SS are magnetized I loved modeling my DW bc they have so many cool upgrades and options, esp for the Vet SGT....couldn’t let all those bits go to waste! Edited July 15, 2020 by Roland Durendal

[Tondy]

FAQ for imperial armor is up, and man.....lots of things are back on the menu.

 

Quad launchers I think are powerful and unlock the leviathan, they also did not get FAQed to the new LOS rules and so can’t be targeted unless they are closest. If you can get them on an objective? The gun still fires while you have them perform an action. Very powerful. It is also a vehicle and so can move and fire the heavy4 8/-3/3 shot

 

I can see the primaris techmarine being the elite that unlocks a scorpius. Scorpius brings quite a lot to the table, it is pure anti primaris indirect fire and there is gonna be a lot of primaris on the table. 

lots of indirect fire will be huge if I understand the LOS and other rules being more prevalent. 

 

Hector Rex is a solid addition for his deny and smite ability. Way better than a librarian. Can see him surviving to use the psychic cast every turn for the 15 points while also being a decent bunker in the backfield. 

 

I believe we can include an inquisitor and an assassin in the same list so that is pretty solid. (Wonder if assassin can be used to unlock relic vehicles lol). I don’t see the culexus/Calicut being that useful, vindicare seems okay but is a CP sink to double shoot every turn and doesn’t ignore the LOS cover rules, I think the Eversor is pretty solid CC option and can probably take on a 5 man primaris unit(or close to it) on its own which is gonna be big for claiming objectives. 

 

I will probably default to Eversor 

You can only have one Agent of the Imperium keyword, and Assassins/Inquisitors both have that keyword. I don't think we've got a solid confirmation on whether they take up a force org slot or not though. 

[leth]

From my reading, it’s one per detachment so you grab a patrol or something and you can definitely take 2, but it seems you are correct, only 1.

 

in that case hector Rex all the way since he frees you from having to get a librarian. With Watchmaster and chaplain(on bike) being pretty powerful(possibly 2 chaplains) I don’t see libertarians taking a slot being worth it. 

[Mobius0288]

FAQ for imperial armor is up, and man.....lots of things are back on the menu.

 

Quad launchers I think are powerful and unlock the leviathan, they also did not get FAQed to the new LOS rules and so can’t be targeted unless they are closest. If you can get them on an objective? The gun still fires while you have them perform an action. Very powerful. It is also a vehicle and so can move and fire the heavy4 8/-3/3 shot

 

I can see the primaris techmarine being the elite that unlocks a scorpius. Scorpius brings quite a lot to the table, it is pure anti primaris indirect fire and there is gonna be a lot of primaris on the table. 

lots of indirect fire will be huge if I understand the LOS and other rules being more prevalent. 

 

Hector Rex is a solid addition for his deny and smite ability. Way better than a librarian. Can see him surviving to use the psychic cast every turn for the 15 points while also being a decent bunker in the backfield. 

 

Interesting that vehicles can perform actions on objectives... you'd figure "raising the flag" for victory points would be done by an infantry unit.

 

While I would love for the primaris techmarine to be an elite, that's a big assumption.

 

And Hector Rex is definitely king of the psychers and one of the best anti-daemon units in the game, even a normal malleus psycher can top a librarian - free psycher upgrade, warlord trait with additional psychic power (and deny) and a stratagem that also gives it another psychic power; all for 55 points (or whatever the new cost is).

 

I was also thinking yesterday that with the CP cap being wiped with new rules, the xeno inquisitor could come back to help with CP farming. Both a xenos inquisitor (gain a CP back on opponent CP usage) and a vindicare assassin (for example) free's up warlord traits on deathwatch to focus on damage. It could even give you benefit you if you take allies outside of space marines but now you'd have to weigh the need for doctrine.

 

But all these thoughts of CP spending makes me want to get a Calidus more and more...

[Roland Durendal]

 

FAQ for imperial armor is up, and man.....lots of things are back on the menu.

 

Quad launchers I think are powerful and unlock the leviathan, they also did not get FAQed to the new LOS rules and so can’t be targeted unless they are closest. If you can get them on an objective? The gun still fires while you have them perform an action. Very powerful. It is also a vehicle and so can move and fire the heavy4 8/-3/3 shot

 

I can see the primaris techmarine being the elite that unlocks a scorpius. Scorpius brings quite a lot to the table, it is pure anti primaris indirect fire and there is gonna be a lot of primaris on the table. 

lots of indirect fire will be huge if I understand the LOS and other rules being more prevalent. 

 

Hector Rex is a solid addition for his deny and smite ability. Way better than a librarian. Can see him surviving to use the psychic cast every turn for the 15 points while also being a decent bunker in the backfield.

 

 

Interesting that vehicles can perform actions on objectives... you'd figure "raising the flag" for victory points would be done by an infantry unit.

 

While I would love for the primaris techmarine to be an elite, that's a big assumption.

 

And Hector Rex is definitely king of the psychers and one of the best anti-daemon units in the game, even a normal malleus psycher can top a librarian - free psycher upgrade, warlord trait with additional psychic power (and deny) and a stratagem that also gives it another psychic power; all for 55 points (or whatever the new cost is).

 

I was also thinking yesterday that with the CP cap being wiped with new rules, the xeno inquisitor could come back to help with CP farming. Both a xenos inquisitor (gain a CP back on opponent CP usage) and a vindicare assassin (for example) free's up warlord traits on deathwatch to focus on damage. It could even give you benefit you if you take allies outside of space marines but now you'd have to weigh the need for doctrine.

 

But all these thoughts of CP spending makes me want to get a Calidus more and more...

Where is the FW FAQ? Can’t seem to find it...

[Mobius0288]

Forgeworld Index: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/cukA8B58izV43IRs.pdf

 

Deathwatch: https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/4Bg2fN7nDf9GS5mH.pdf

 

EDIT: Oddities I noticed... chaplain dreadnaught wording is still present even though no points were listed in the new book? Or maybe I missed it. Either case, ours would not get litanies. Also the Astreaus Super Heavy tank was not updated in the FAQ and as of my post, the downloadable datasheet has not been updated.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Mobius0288

[leth]

I think by taking warlord with cp regen will will hit the one per turn limit in the matched play rules. 
 

then get the tome(thinking on biker chaplain) and now you are sitting pretty. 
 

thinking for HQs(points are guesses)

 

hector rex(no slot) 110

Watchmaster(knowledge warlord trait) 130

chaplain on bike(tome) 150

 

Leviathan with storm cannon, quad mortar for heavies and the rest is pretty open.  450

 

so figuring 850 or so is spoken for, leaving the rest for kill teams. 

[Roland Durendal]

I think by taking warlord with cp regen will will hit the one per turn limit in the matched play rules. 

 

then get the tome(thinking on biker chaplain) and now you are sitting pretty. 

 

thinking for HQs(points are guesses)

 

hector rex(no slot) 110

Watchmaster(knowledge warlord trait) 130

chaplain on bike(tome) 150

 

Leviathan with storm cannon, quad mortar for heavies and the rest is pretty open.  450

 

so figuring 850 or so is spoken for, leaving the rest for kill teams.

 

Where are you finding the cost for Rex and the Leviathan? Been looking for those

 

[xenomortis]

I like the look of the quad mortar rapier battery. Might have to pick a couple of those up in the near future

[ashc]

Veteran squads need some careful thinking about now.

[Prot]

Honestly about vets, I can take my original vets from the first codex which never had storm bolters. Or I can use my newer ones , but I still see value in dropping in the frag cannons with a pod or two. 
 

im so glad about the Corvus too.