Deathwatch 9th edition points

[ashc]

I'm considering a mixed squad in a corvus; 1-2 shields, 2 frag cannons, couple of power weapons, blackshield and a bike, maybe a terminator; the right character support. Jump out and lay down with firepower, able to counterassault, get out of combat and then do it again with the bike.

[Roland Durendal]

I'm considering a mixed squad in a corvus; 1-2 shields, 2 frag cannons, couple of power weapons, blackshield and a bike, maybe a terminator; the right character support. Jump out and lay down with firepower, able to counterassault, get out of combat and then do it again with the bike.

Exactly. Right now I’m looking at teleportarium-ing 2 Vet squads with a termie onto objectives, a 3rd bet squad riding in a Corvus with a termie backed up by a Libby (though I may drop the Libby for a Chappy), and then have a VV squad deep strike in supported by a jump Chappy and smash Captain. That’s the main brunt right now. Vet squads to grab objectives, VV and characters to go deep and strike into the enemy Deployment Zone/ Objectives. There’s a few more things floating in the backfield for support but that’s the gist of my tentative list right now

[leth]

I would caution against using teleportation with the goal of grabbing objectives. We still have the 9 inch push back, but also you won’t be able to come in until turn 2 which means they are unlikely to be in range of an objective (unless charge) until turn 3 which means the first turn they can score the objective is top of turn 4. 
 

same for anything objective based goals really. The secondaries really change how you have to plan and play. I would Drop pod before I would teleport most things.

 

The teleport relic I think is a mandatory 1 CP IMO(with the tome as the free one). I have to see the points on the dreadnaught drop pod, if it gets the new rules then it will be auto take with a leviathan(for me). Especially if I can go first and land on an objective. Static things like drop pods will actually have significant value IMO, especially when compared to a 5 man unit of primaris for durability. 

[Daynga-Zone]

Teleporting units to hitbackfield objectives is valuable to me. Even if they don’t score until turn 4 they can deny the points by wiping a unit off an objective. Helps achieve hold more as well.

[Roland Durendal]

I would caution against using teleportation with the goal of grabbing objectives. We still have the 9 inch push back, but also you won’t be able to come in until turn 2 which means they are unlikely to be in range of an objective (unless charge) until turn 3 which means the first turn they can score the objective is top of turn 4. 

 

same for anything objective based goals really. The secondaries really change how you have to plan and play. I would Drop pod before I would teleport most things.

 

The teleport relic I think is a mandatory 1 CP IMO(with the tome as the free one). I have to see the points on the dreadnaught drop pod, if it gets the new rules then it will be auto take with a leviathan(for me). Especially if I can go first and land on an objective. Static things like drop pods will actually have significant value IMO, especially when compared to a 5 man unit of primaris for durability.

 

I agree and was planning on running my two teleporting vet squads in pods until I realized/learned that 8th edition changed the drop pod rule around and that you could no longer transport terminators OR dreadnoughts in a Pod. If that changes in 9th I’d def go back to running them, but for me at least right now, for two squads anyway, it’s a question of really: terminators (and the durability they provide) or drop pods (and the maneuverability...and I guess some durability...they provide). I’m building lists either way with both options to see which...feels...right

[Mobius0288]

Why not both? Turn 1 drop pod with a Capt/HQ and kill team, use the Angelis beacon on said character to pull a unit of terminators to your position (must start on board.

 

Mid game you can drop reivers or CP a unit intercessors wherever. Keeps your good firepower for early game and harassing can be used based on how much you kill or didn't kill. Or of course, to go after an objective.

[Roland Durendal]

Why not both? Turn 1 drop pod with a Capt/HQ and kill team, use the Angelis beacon on said character to pull a unit of terminators to your position (must start on board.

Mid game you can drop reivers or CP a unit intercessors wherever. Keeps your good firepower for early game and harassing can be used based on how much you kill or didn't kill. Or of course, to go after an objective.

Mainly because I was running a terminator or 2 in my vet squads and the Drop Pod rules now clearly state Terminators can’t be transported by a Drop Pod...so I’m assuming that means they couldn’t ride in it with the Vet Squad they’re attached to.

 

The other issue is unless There’s a FAQ or the new Drop Pod rules state so, according to CA 2020, for tournaments no strategic reserves can come in turn 1.

[leth]

The FAQ specifically says that drop pods can be set up turn 1. 

[Lemondish]

 

Why not both? Turn 1 drop pod with a Capt/HQ and kill team, use the Angelis beacon on said character to pull a unit of terminators to your position (must start on board.

Mid game you can drop reivers or CP a unit intercessors wherever. Keeps your good firepower for early game and harassing can be used based on how much you kill or didn't kill. Or of course, to go after an objective.

Mainly because I was running a terminator or 2 in my vet squads and the Drop Pod rules now clearly state Terminators can’t be transported by a Drop Pod...so I’m assuming that means they couldn’t ride in it with the Vet Squad they’re attached to.

 

The other issue is unless There’s a FAQ or the new Drop Pod rules state so, according to CA 2020, for tournaments no strategic reserves can come in turn 1.

 

 

The drop pod gets a special rule to ignore that limitation I believe. 

[Roland Durendal]

Well then pods are back on the menu boys!

 

Except for the whole....no transporting terminators bit

[Lemondish]

Well then pods are back on the menu boys!

 

Except for the whole....no transporting terminators bit

Yeah, that's certainly a huge bummer. But I also wonder if the main reason for a vet unit bringing terminators has kind of disappeared with the new wound allocation rules... Edited July 20, 2020 by Lemondish

[Mobius0288]

 

Well then pods are back on the menu boys!

 

Except for the whole....no transporting terminators bit

Yeah, that's certainly a huge bummer. But I also wonder if the main reason for a vet unit bringing terminators has kind of disappeared with the new wound allocation rules...

 

I wonder about that as well. You could still teleport a team back to a biker's teleport homer if you bring a termie. They could also make a kill team super beefy with a couple TH/SS. The allocation doesn't seem that big of a deal as it refreshes between phases.

[Roland Durendal]

I initially was sticking a Terminator with TH/SS in my main objective grabbing vet squads to soak up low AP (or I guess high AP now?) shots with their 2+/3++. But yeah the inability to Pod them is disheartening. Using a teleport homer on a bike unit is an intriguing idea though

[ashc]

Do we know what's happening with storm shields? The Indomitus stuff has different rules, adding +1 to armour saves and a 4+ inv.

[Brother Cruoris]

Didn't they say there will be no changes to storm sheilds from the codex in some comment?

But im guessing there might be some in the future.

[leth]

Basically you are to use the rules in your book, even if the new books have something different. 
 

which is super annoying for marines since they share all the wargear and it would be an easy FAQ fix. 

[Lemondish]

Basically you are to use the rules in your book, even if the new books have something different.

 

which is super annoying for marines since they share all the wargear and it would be an easy FAQ fix.

Well, they had to FAQ the new shields already, so I'm glad they didn't jump into that mistake.

[Duke Danse Macabre]

 

Well then pods are back on the menu boys!

Except for the whole....no transporting terminators bit

Yeah, that's certainly a huge bummer. But I also wonder if the main reason for a vet unit bringing terminators has kind of disappeared with the new wound allocation rules...

Wound allocation has changed?

In what way?

I'm curious as I run 10 strong units in some cases with half the squad as terminators or aggressors to let the small guys soak up the wounds or the high ap but if it's a return to random allocation I would worry about 6th ed rules returning where everyone in the squad has taken wounds before they start to kill off models.

 

I think the issue for us now is going to be choosing what works for us because we have allot of new toys but everything costs more.

I'm just hoping 2k becomes the new norm again.

[Mobius0288]

There is no new posted publication (FAQ) as of today: The storm shields in the indomotus box are as written on their data sheets (+1 save, 4++). Everything else is as per the Deathwatch Codex (3++ storm shield vets, termies and VVs).

 

The wound allocation really isnt that bad. Per phase, whatever model is allocated the attack continues to make a armor save until dead. If you run 2-3 storm shields a squad like the meta, your good. If you have one of each kind of special and heavy weapon int he squad, ya you're gonna have issues. You gotta choose the models that carry special weapons carefully and probably not pair them with storm shields... unless your whole squad is going to have them.

[Lemondish]

Wound allocation has changed?

In what way?

I'm curious as I run 10 strong units in some cases with half the squad as terminators or aggressors to let the small guys soak up the wounds or the high ap but if it's a return to random allocation I would worry about 6th ed rules returning where everyone in the squad has taken wounds before they start to kill off models.

 

I think the issue for us now is going to be choosing what works for us because we have allot of new toys but everything costs more.

I'm just hoping 2k becomes the new norm again.

 

 

It is a subtle, but otherwise impactful change for us from 8th, and while wound allocation is still player choice, there is this to consider:

 

"If a model in the target unit has already lost any wounds or has already had attacks allocated to it this phase, the attack must be allocated to that model."

 

In 9th, it isn't just wounded models that you have to keep allocating to, but models you've allocated ANY attacks to, even if they are ultimately saved and even if they have full wounds still. That means no more allocating low AP, 1 damage attacks to the Terminator while tossing everything else to a Storm Shield Vet. If you select the Terminator to soak up those low AP shots, he'll have to also tank the high AP, high damage shooting later in that same phase. You can no longer allocate different profiles to different models throughout a shooting phase. 

[leth]

Yep, if we could get storm bolter/SS terminators then it wouldn’t be that big of a deal, but that is space wolf only sadly. 
 

Either way i am not going to worry too much, odds are that we will get our book before the pandemic is over and I could go to a tournament anyway, 

[Roland Durendal]

Thanks for the clarity Lemondish! One question I’d like some clarification on if possible: because it’s worded that way and they explicitly say “phase” does that mean the following is true:

- Unit A shoots Vet squad (With attached Terminator) with AP0 1W attacks. Lets say 3 hit and all 3 wound.

- I allocate all to the terminator who passes all.

- Unit B now shoots that same Vet squad (with attached Terminator) with several AP-5 2W attacks, and 2 hit and wound

 

Question: do I have to allocate those to the terminator or can I allocate elsewhere. I’m assuming yes the Terminator because how they phrased it and made it explicitly say “Phase”. In which case, I can see both the pros and cons of having a tank like unit in a squad. Pro is....he could literally tank an entire enemy shooting phase (depending of course on his save, # of wounds, and hot dice....but it’s not out of the realm of possibility). Con: he has to literally tank EVERY shot until he fails/dies...which means no more spreading the love to keep certain models alive.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Roland Durendal

[Lemondish]

You got it right - you have to allocate those to the Terminator if you already allocated any shots to him, and it lasts throughout the phase in question. So if nothing was allocated that phase, you have your pick - but whoever you pick will need to tank everything until they're dead.

 

Previously, what I would have done in 8th was allocate those AP0 1W attacks to the Terminator since it would take forever for one to be whittled down by them. He tanks the attrition fire.

 

Then, when something like AP-5 2W attacks came in, they'd be allocated to a storm shield vet where both the higher AP and higher damage were essentially wasted. They tanked the dangerous stuff and made it inefficient to fire any weapon type against Vets who had perfect tank models to eat the damage. It meant everybody tanked what was least efficient for the enemy to throw at me.

 

Now, the opponent has a way to bait me out and deny me that tactic. It seems minor, and maybe it is, but it was also a cool design element I built into my Kill Teams. Whatever they choose to shoot at my Vets will now simply be less efficient for the first salvo at each new model as we go back and forth trying to maximize damage versus defense.

 

If we do gain the new storm shield rules, then it probably won't matter as much.

Edited July 22, 2020 by Lemondish

[Duke Danse Macabre]

It's still workable however, just mean it may be worth taking 2 terminators rather than 1 for wounds. Means if he switches weapon types you only have to take his hits the switch again if the model dies and only 13 points difference for an additional wound, sword and SB with double the shots so it's not a bad price.

 

If all SS rules change and not just for the blade guard as rumoured we will have +2 vets anyway, I still think as it stands a 2 man squad with 2 sword/SB terminators with 5 vets with SS/SB will cost 180 points, just make sure they are in cover if deep striking and all is good.