POTMS will do something different! -GW

[Brother Tyler]

On an admin note, you need to calm down, @emperorpants. Your tone from the original post has been aggressive. There's no reason to behave that way here.

[emperorpants]

They said it in a stream.

On an admin note, you need to calm down, @emperorpants. Your tone from the original post has been aggressive. There's no reason to behave that way here.

Aggressive to who? To GW? I didn't get aggressive to anyone on here until they insulted me. But that's fine huh?

 

With respect, you'd have to warn quite a few people if being annoyed and upset with gw isn't ok. Especially over the weekend. I said they lied. Then got insulted. Then called out the person insulting me.

Edited July 13, 2020 by emperorpants

[Minsc]

Is there any point to this thread emperorpants, other than you wanting to vent some frustration with GW?

You could've just made a post in the 9th ed-rumor thread, no need to make a topic about it and then get defensive when people don't agree with you. 

[Lemondish]

So here's the thing. I'll repeat what has already been said.

 

Deleting it from every current datasheet seems like the best first step before we see any potential return. After all, it may eventually provide a benefit that doesn't make sense for every unit that currently has it, but could make sense for units that currently do not.

 

Better to start fresh.

[emperorpants]

Is there any point to this thread emperorpants, other than you wanting to vent some frustration with GW?

You could've just made a post in the 9th ed-rumor thread, no need to make a topic about it and then get defensive when people don't agree with you.

 

Again, I'm fine if people disagree with me. I didnt get defensive until someone insulted me. If you disagree that's fine. Heck, I even said the other persons post was fine until he started insulting.

 

The post was to draw attention to POTMS being deleted which would have gotten lost in the other thread. It's quite frankly a bit surprising to get insulted for being annoyed with GW and then be told I'm too aggressive because I defended myself. I didnt even insult anyone.

Edited July 13, 2020 by emperorpants

[emperorpants]

So here's the thing. I'll repeat what has already been said.

Deleting it from every current datasheet seems like the best first step before we see any potential return. After all, it may eventually provide a benefit that doesn't make sense for every unit that currently has it, but could make sense for units that currently do not.

Better to start fresh.

This might be true. I hope you're right.

[War Angel]

So, we just assume that GW lied and there’s absolutely no chance that the people in the stream didn’t exactly understand what the rules team told them about PoTMS.... or that maybe they were making a speculation instead of actually giving us a fact? There’s absolutely no way that that’s possible?

 

Like.... zero chance?

 

And you’ve seen the future and can confirm that it’s not brought back in later when we get our dex?

 

 

And even if it is gone forever. Are we that dependent on that ability to make those units good? Should we start tossing our tanks because they aren’t good anymore?

[emperorpants]

We have litanies and targeters now though just saying .

This is true. Still, all I wanted was for them to just say "for now the ability is getting removed from the game. That may change later though." Would be a much better description of what they chose to end up doing. If you want to say that technically they didn't lie if they add the ability later, fine, fair enough. However, their statement in the stream is at least misleading.

[Ishagu]

I actually think these FAQs are a strong indicator of new books coming out in the future.

 

Let's just hope we don't have to wait long.

[emperorpants]

So, we just assume that GW lied and there’s absolutely no chance that the people in the stream didn’t exactly understand what the rules team told them about PoTMS.... or that maybe they were making a speculation instead of actually giving us a fact? There’s absolutely no way that that’s possible?

Like.... zero chance?

And you’ve seen the future and can confirm that it’s not brought back in later when we get our dex?

And even if it is gone forever. Are we that dependent on that ability to make those units good? Should we start tossing our tanks because they aren’t good anymore?

All of that is possible. If any of that is true it's still a mistake, and it still deserves to be called out. It is, however, a forgivable mistake. Especially after they went qbove and beyond to fix the Indomitus launch. Much of my ire toward GW was due to that fiasco of a launch, which has been lessened greatly due to them making it right. That said, I would appreciate if employees on stream telling us stuff or speculating would get their facts straight before saying anything about rules.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I don’t think GW lied. They has shown so much love to SM I just can’t really care about and count all my blessings over here .

[War Angel]

Have you ever worked a job where you had to interact with people. It’s rough, different people will understand you differently, your on the spot in these videos that are live and as soon as those words leave your mouth that’s it. And if you read a script it can sound robotic, so you put it in your own words, someone else asks something in a particular way so you make a comment and it isn’t exactly how you ment to say it. Wanting GW to take responsibility for this statement which was said in error.... the reaction is to fire the guy. Are you that upset that he should be fired? Can you say you’ve never made a mistake in your life?

 

Bringing up the heated issue of saturdays release, I think it’s fair to say that they hadn’t expected it to go that well/ that fast. They made a decision to correct it, and people are still mad about it for various reasons. Dealing with people sucks, your always going to be a monster in some persons eyes. Try and be a little more patient, I’m sure it all works out fine. If marines never get POTMS back, it will suck, but will we be that weak for it? We’ll be ok. I promise.

[emperorpants]

I don’t think GW lied. They has shown so much love to SM I just can’t really care about and count all my blessings over here .

If it was just a mistake, then they need to make sure they know what they are talking about on streams, and if they are unsure, then they should say so. Is it a huge deal? No. Just annoying, but less so now. Before it was yet another mess up fresh after indomitus which at the time seemed like they were not going to address, what with not saying anything for days and erasing their owns posts about it. Now though, they have regained good will and minor mistakes aren't as amplified through the lens of indomitus.

[emperorpants]

Have you ever worked a job where you had to interact with people. It’s rough, different people will understand you differently, your on the spot in these videos that are live and as soon as those words leave your mouth that’s it. And if you read a script it can sound robotic, so you put it in your own words, someone else asks something in a particular way so you make a comment and it isn’t exactly how you ment to say it. Wanting GW to take responsibility for this statement which was said in error.... the reaction is to fire the guy. Are you that upset that he should be fired? Can you say you’ve never made a mistake in your life?

Bringing up the heated issue of saturdays release, I think it’s fair to say that they hadn’t expected it to go that well/ that fast. They made a decision to correct it, and people are still mad about it for various reasons. Dealing with people sucks, your always going to be a monster in some persons eyes. Try and be a little more patient, I’m sure it all works out fine. If marines never get POTMS back, it will suck, but will we be that weak for it? We’ll be ok. I promise.

No he shouldn't be fired. I get that mistakes happen. Honestly, as I said before, it was a minor issue magnified by indomitus. Now indomitus has been sorted and this mistake just becomes a minor thing that is quite forgivable. I think it's fair to say though that the streamers should endeavor to try to be sure of the rules before saying anything, and if unsure say so.

 

Also, I do feel for GW as far as rules writing goes. The way some people try to find every little loop hole and exploit must make writing the rules a nightmare. Lol.

Edited July 13, 2020 by emperorpants

[Medjugorje]

So GW lied. Not surprised at all. They simply deleted power of the machine spirit, after saying the ability would do something different. Way to lie GW.

 

they  will imply that in the new Codex or new book I think.

[War Angel]

I’m sure they conducted some training on the matter, maybe some scolding, perhaps some wrist slapping. Well never know about it though. And we will see more mistakes in the future. Say 99 things right, people will only care about the one thing you get wrong.

[Hymnblade]

This change also straight-up breaks the new Custodes version of "Vengeance of the Machine Spirit" in War of the Spider: it only work for vehicles with the PotMS ability, rather than working on a list of keywords like the Marine version of the stratagem.

 

In practice, I'm sure everyone knows that the strat is supposed to be for land raiders, but it's another way in which this isn't a very well thought out change.

[Brother Tyler]

 

So GW lied...

Where and when did GW say that Power of the Machine Spirit would do something different? Do you have a link? And can you quote their exact words?

 

I've gone through all of the faction focus articles for the Adeptus Astartes/Heretic Astartes as well as the Tanks are Back on Track article at Warhammer Community, and none of those mention Power of the Machine Spirit doing something different. My assumption, then, is that you heard/read the alleged promise in a webcast or some other source that I haven't checked.

 

They said it in a stream.

That only answers part of the question. The main point of my questions, though, was to get the full picture. The part that you missed was:

 

...can you quote their exact words?

Characterizing it as a lie is significant. It may be true, but none of us can agree with your conclusion unless we know the "lie" (i.e., what exactly did they say?).

 

 

On an admin note, you need to calm down, @emperorpants. Your tone from the original post has been aggressive. There's no reason to behave that way here.

Aggressive to who? To GW? I didn't get aggressive to anyone on here until they insulted me. But that's fine huh?

 

With respect, you'd have to warn quite a few people if being annoyed and upset with gw isn't ok. Especially over the weekend. I said they lied. Then got insulted. Then called out the person insulting me.

 

The topic title and first post are aggressive. It's very easy for anyone to infer a level of aggression, too, from the rapidity and defensiveness of your replies. No one "insulted" you. They simply provided counterpoints to your assertions. That's part and parcel of a discussion.

 

You appear to have drawn the conclusion that when GW (allegedly) said that PotMS would do something different, it meant that the rule would be preserved and that its effects would change. Moreover, you appear to have assumed that it would remain through the FAQ period. If we take GW at its alleged word, it could be as others have pointed out - the FAQ deletion streamlines the existing codex to mesh with the new core rules and the rule might be re-integrated in the next codex to truly function differently. If that's the case, then GW didn't "lie" to us - you simply drew a conclusion that didn't match the reality.

 

It could be, however, that whoever said whatever it was that you think was a lie spoke in error. That, too, is not a "lie" as it's not a deliberate deception.

 

Alternately, it could be that GW truly did "lie," but we won't know that for certain until the final rules (rules and codex) are released and we're able to match it up with the alleged "lie." Hence my request for their exact words.

[emperorpants]

 

Black blow fly is right, saying that POTMS will be in the next codex is simply speculation. All we can go on is what we know right now. They said that POTMS would do something different. Instead they just deleted it. They lied. Full stop. It would have been easy to change it now in the faq. They didnt.

They didn’t lie. Or, at least, you cannot equivocally say that yet. They likely deleted it as it’s redundant and rather than deal with the possible unintended consequence of changing across the board, or deal with interim balance issues, they have likely dealt with it as a stop gap.

If the 9th edition codex lands and it doesn’t do anything different/isn’t included then you can throw your toys out the pram then. Ridiculous to do so now.

Brother Tyler, that last bit isn't an insult? Sorry, I'm going to have to disagree with you there. That is worse than anything i said by a large margin. Again, please explain why that is ok, and his next posts too, but mine aren't? That is very much an insult directed at me. He didn't even deny it.

 

Also, again, I got aggressive with no poster here until this quoted post. Even then, my posts where nothing terrible and where in line with his. Yet only I get called out. Also, I was very clearly annoyed with GW. Does that give people free rain to insult me? IBecause yes, implying I'm a baby throwing my toys out of my crib is an insult. Here's the thing: no one should insult anyone. I'm going to call people out who insult me.

Edited July 13, 2020 by emperorpants

[Dracos]

 

The constant GW bashing over every single tiny point is SO boring. They have clearly put out some FAQs to transition 8th codices into 9th before the full 9th codices are out. They have not yet lied. They have yet to fulfil the intention they expressed. Simple.

 

 

Some people enjoy the game some people enjoy picking it apart. I'm pretty sure which of those two groups are actually happier people. We had this same king of discussion concerning the Primaris version of the Storm Shield last week. The FAQ has more clearly defined what the less litigious of us knew how the rule was suppose to work. I imagine we will find this also cleared in a time of GW choosing. When is the same group will find something else to pick at. It's their way.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Teach this guy a lesson for his impudence. We will all be better for it.

 

The constant GW bashing over every single tiny point is SO boring. They have clearly put out some FAQs to transition 8th codices into 9th before the full 9th codices are out. They have not yet lied. They have yet to fulfil the intention they expressed. Simple.

 

 

Some people enjoy the game some people enjoy picking it apart. I'm pretty sure which of those two groups are actually happier people. We had this same king of discussion concerning the Primaris version of the Storm Shield last week. The FAQ has more clearly defined what the less litigious of us knew how the rule was suppose to work. I imagine we will find this also cleared in a time of GW choosing. When is the same group will find something else to pick at. It's their way.

That in no way justifies having to scroll through their diatribes.

[emperorpants]

Really Black blow fly? What about the Tau overwatch thread? Your behavior there was way worse than anything I've said or done. I'm just defending myself. I didnt insult anyone. I was miffed at GW and have since amended that and admitted that perhaps i was wrong to say they lied.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I said we (Smurfs) are Tau’va. Wow man the lengths you go to distort things is just amazing.

[emperorpants]

Brother Tyler, if I remember right, they said " POTMS will do something different" I could be wrong since it was in a stream.

 

Also, I've admitted that perhaps i was too hasty in saying it was a lie, and that yes, it was likely a mistake which isn't a huge deal. Also, my annoyance with GW was because i was looking forward to finally ordering Indomitus, and then the whole fiasco happened. I made this thread before GW stepped up to the plate, and the POTMS thing was magnified to me because of that, hence my annoyed attitude toward GW in opening posts. As I said before, GW really stepped up and did the right thing so this minor mistake is put into better perspective.

[emperorpants]

I said we (Smurfs) are Tau’va. Wow man the lengths you go to distort things is just amazing.

Really? Cuz I remember you going a bit crazy when it was revealed that Tau got to keep overwatch as it was in 8th, which is what I was referring to, as you well know. Good try with the gaslighting though, top notch.