FAQ Changed our Chapter Tactic

[TheNewman]

Anyone else notice that instead of bikes being able to ignore the penalty for moving and firing with heavy weapons or advancing with Assault weapons we now just have a blanket "White Scars can advance and fire Assault weapons without penalty"?

 

Probably it's because the movement rules only penalize INFANTRY for firing a heavy weapon on the move and Bikes aren't INFANTRY. That subtle change slipped me at first. It's not unwelcome but it does make WS feel a bit less distinctive.

[Lukoi]

It is freaking awesome. Every edge to get up board, ensure charges, and blitz into opponents fits the theme of WS, and this improves on that theme imo.

[Prot]

I was just going to post this myself.

 

I just wish you could put Autobolters on an Outrider. 

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

I was just going to post this myself.

 

I just wish you could put Autobolters on an Outrider. 

That would be nice... however you can still use Born in the Saddle to shoot for only 1 cp.  

[Prot]

True enough... and I often do with normal bikes, but I think the Outriders are capped at a static '3' which kind of stinks. 

 

I like the bigger squads because I do the combo of 'fire normal' + '3++ invuln'. With 3 Outriders... not so sure. With more bikes, and a Sarge with hammer, and a Multimelta bike, this is a much better investment in CP to me. (This is my typical bike squad config.) 

 

So oddly enough my 'old' bike unit hits harder, and is better at taking down hard targets whereas the Outriders are better pew pew and taking down chaff. Kind of ironic. 

[Prot]

Anyone else notice that instead of bikes being able to ignore the penalty for moving and firing with heavy weapons or advancing with Assault weapons we now just have a blanket "White Scars can advance and fire Assault weapons without penalty"?

 

Probably it's because the movement rules only penalize INFANTRY for firing a heavy weapon on the move and Bikes aren't INFANTRY. That subtle change slipped me at first. It's not unwelcome but it does make WS feel a bit less distinctive.

 

 

I just saw your 'less distinctive'. 

 

Remember this used to say "Biker" models with this tactic do not suffer the penalty.... etc.

 

Now it's every unit that gets the tactic.

 

You want to feel distinctive? Advance 3 squads of Eradicators up the board, fire without penalty at 24" each, covering most of the new, smaller, board size. Unless I'm missing something, that's pretty decent, especially since the eradicator is a weird squad size lock down and therefore awkward to put into a Repulsor.

 

I'm going 3 x 3 in my list. Not going to bother with Encirclement on any of them unless it truly benefits me.

[TheNewman]

Yes, less distinctive. Before only WS could really leverage Attack Bikes. Now we're not any better at it than anyone else, and half of our new chapter tactic can be replicated by any successor chapter.

 

I'm not saying it's not an improvement, I love the heck out of this change, but it's a little less flavor.

[Lemondish]

I'm not too familiar with White Scars, so just to get this straight, the new CT is advance and shoot assault weapons without penalty alongside the ability advance or fall back and still charge in the same turn?

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

 

Anyone else notice that instead of bikes being able to ignore the penalty for moving and firing with heavy weapons or advancing with Assault weapons we now just have a blanket "White Scars can advance and fire Assault weapons without penalty"?

 

Probably it's because the movement rules only penalize INFANTRY for firing a heavy weapon on the move and Bikes aren't INFANTRY. That subtle change slipped me at first. It's not unwelcome but it does make WS feel a bit less distinctive.

 

 

I just saw your 'less distinctive'. 

 

Remember this used to say "Biker" models with this tactic do not suffer the penalty.... etc.

 

Now it's every unit that gets the tactic.

 

You want to feel distinctive? Advance 3 squads of Eradicators up the board, fire without penalty at 24" each, covering most of the new, smaller, board size. Unless I'm missing something, that's pretty decent, especially since the eradicator is a weird squad size lock down and therefore awkward to put into a Repulsor.

 

I'm going 3 x 3 in my list. Not going to bother with Encirclement on any of them unless it truly benefits me.

 

Even better... advance them out of an impulsor that moved 14".  Then shoot twice.  

I'm not too familiar with White Scars, so just to get this straight, the new CT is advance and shoot assault weapons without penalty alongside the ability advance or fall back and still charge in the same turn?

This seems to be the case.  

[Lukoi]

What successor tactics allow me to do that?

[TheNewman]

The new second half of our Chapter Tactic is just Rapid Assault.

 

We're not unique there. Master Artisans is half of the Salamanders Tactic, Stoic is the bad half of the UM Tactic, Stealthy is half the Raven Guard Tactic, Warded is half the Black Templar Tactic, etc.

Edited July 13, 2020 by TheNewman

[Lukoi]

The new second half of our Chapter Tactic is just Rapid Assault.

 

That's not the important half of the CT though.  There isn't a successor trait to replicate the first half is there? If there is, then I see your point, but right now...this is pretty powerful stuff for WS, and cannot be replicated via ST.

[TheNewman]

There is no successor trait that replicates advance and charge. Rapid Assault and Tactical Withdrawl is the other two thirds though. (...that puts Scars in the same boat as Iron Hands having basically three sub-traits. Hadn't thought of that.)

 

Off the top of my head I don't think any of the 'default' tactics are entirely replicatable out of the successor traits, and I can't imagine that wasn't deliberate on GW's part.

 

Advancing and still charging is remarkably powerful, this is true. Depending on your list it's possibly not the strongest thing you could be taking though. A solid fire-base with dangerous Deep Striking elements might well benefit more from Hungry for Battle to shorten those Deep Strike charges even further and Tactical Withdrawl to retain being able to fallback and charge in the same turn. It's clearly not as strong in a vacuum, but it could be a better fit for the army composition.

Edited July 13, 2020 by TheNewman

[Lukoi]

Yes absolutely.  My point is just that this is a powerful step forward for WS.  While it doesn't fixate on the bikes, I'd argue it's an extremely cool change for the chapter, and doesn't make people feel compelled to play the bike option.

 

I think it's more interesting thematically to be not quite so pigeonholed.  It's definitely something I'm paying attention to as a competitive player.

[FinalCookie]

This change is fantastic. Advance and charge was and still is the real meat of the chapter tactic, but now the second half gives everything even more utility and flavor. Limiting it to bikes would have been a misreading of the style of the chapter. Even when they don't have bikes, the need to maintain maneuverability and RoF is central to how the White Scars fight.

[TheNewman]

Yes absolutely. My point is just that this is a powerful step forward for WS. While it doesn't fixate on the bikes, I'd argue it's an extremely cool change for the chapter, and doesn't make people feel compelled to play the bike option.

 

I think it's more interesting thematically to be not quite so pigeonholed. It's definitely something I'm paying attention to as a competitive player.

For the purposes of Garage-Hammer the WS tactic is now strong enough that I'm starting to think about picking a custom Successor Chapter tactic that doesn't mesh so well just to handicap myself.

[Lord_Caerolion]

I like that the Chapter Tactics have been moved to being more widely applied, instead of just benefiting specific units or weapons. The White Scars fight in a different way that applies across the whole Chapter, not just "they're good with bikes". That's what the bike-specific Stratagems are for. It's like the Salamanders previously only being the "flamer/melta guys". Sure, that's part of their identity, but they're more than that.

[Prot]

Absolutely.  It’s a positive change and in many cases there are examples,e of armies going backwards a bit so I’m pretty ok with this. I think because our character was a cheaper one and I think we get great value there too. Not”Tigurius” value but it’s pretty good, fairly unique. 

[Riddlesworth]

It's very tasty. Pre-9th I'd been looking enviously at the white scars strats and doctrines for my custom chapter using bolter fusilades and whirlwind of rage.

 

This change is so good for a mixed army, inheritors of the primarch might have to be tested

[TheNewman]

It's very tasty. Pre-9th I'd been looking enviously at the white scars strats and doctrines for my custom chapter using bolter fusilades and whirlwind of rage.

 

This change is so good for a mixed army, inheritors of the primarch might have to be tested

Nothing was stopping you from declaring your Bolter Fusilade / Whirlwind of Rage chapter to be a White Scars successor and having access to those strats and doctrines...

[CCE1981]

It's very tasty. Pre-9th I'd been looking enviously at the white scars strats and doctrines for my custom chapter using bolter fusilades and whirlwind of rage.

 

This change is so good for a mixed army, inheritors of the primarch might have to be tested

You can get all of it for a turn if you take Indominus Crusaders. My personal opinion is that the White Scars Warlord traits aren’t that strong, I prefer buffs to the army as a whole. This allows you to take Greyshield as a Warlord trait, if you spend a CP you can get it as a third additional character with a warlord trait if you want. For one turn you can have your Successor traits AND your parent Chapter traits on you Intercessors.

[Prot]

 

It's very tasty. Pre-9th I'd been looking enviously at the white scars strats and doctrines for my custom chapter using bolter fusilades and whirlwind of rage.

 

This change is so good for a mixed army, inheritors of the primarch might have to be tested

You can get all of it for a turn if you take Indominus Crusaders. My personal opinion is that the White Scars Warlord traits aren’t that strong, I prefer buffs to the army as a whole. This allows you to take Greyshield as a Warlord trait, if you spend a CP you can get it as a third additional character with a warlord trait if you want. For one turn you can have your Successor traits AND your parent Chapter traits on you Intercessors.

 

 

I guess it's personal, but I do see your point on the Warlord traits. The Master of Snares was great in 8th, but I think it has wide ranging effects, and still has a spot in 9th if you play to it. Some units hate being stuck in no matter the edition. 

 

For example one of my last 8th ed games I got a Blood Angels' Leviathan dual Stormcannon dread stuck in with my Captain on bike on his turn.... I know in 9th there's no way someone wants a shooty levi stuck in with a Stormshield bike captain carrying a hammer. This benefits the army overall....

 

But yes, I see your point. I am personally thinking of moving my warlord over to my Chaplain (re roll Litany, or add 3" to their auras).... pretty good for my army builds. 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Prot

[Riddlesworth]

 

It's very tasty. Pre-9th I'd been looking enviously at the white scars strats and doctrines for my custom chapter using bolter fusilades and whirlwind of rage.

This change is so good for a mixed army, inheritors of the primarch might have to be tested

Nothing was stopping you from declaring your Bolter Fusilade / Whirlwind of Rage chapter to be a White Scars successor and having access to those strats and doctrines...

Oh yes, I know that. What I meant was, I was running those chapter tactics as a raven guard successor but moving the play style and unit selection more to the point that the white scars gear looked a better fit for how I was running the army.

 

Now, with smaller tables, less turn 1 alpha strike (gamble) and the way the missions are, I think white scars supplement rules might serve me better.

 

The change in chapter tactic makes me want to try inheritors though