CA 2020 points increase thoughts.

[FarFromSam]

So, with some of the points increase leaks out today I might be reshelving my Dark Angel list for a bit.  I know a lot of armies have seen an increase accross the board, but My list centered on aggressors/azrael bubble anchoring 2 LARGE squads of DWK.  Well, both have seen BIG points increases.  Aggressors went up 8 points a model, and DWK went up 10 points a model.  Man  just off those two units alone my list went up 248 points.  

 

Regular termis came out alright, probably even ahead of the curve.  Might be some play in that, but losing out on doctrines and now hits to our special units leaves me scratching my head and wondering where to find our special flavor.

 

I'm excited to see what new styles of play we come up with, I just hope we find a unique style that doesn't rely on character abuse/Talonmaster spam.

 

What do yall see?  Where can we make our mark?  What new lists are yall looking to try?

 

 

Also, salt salt salt.

Edited July 13, 2020 by farfromsam

[Lukoi]

I feel ya. My 2k list bumped up 340-ish points, a very major hit to my playstyle. I'm rethinking my own list (have been actually) to try and find a way to retain the flavor without too much negative impact.

 

Admittedly, with the smaller maps, and various rules changes, it does get after GW's apparent intent to reduce the number of models in matches (as part of speeding up the game), but when I go from having Relic Contemptor Dread and two Invictors, to having just the RCD....it stings a bit lol.

[Berzul]

Indeed, regular Deathwing Terminators feel like the big winners here.

 

Staying at their same cost, and even going down in price, when you factor in the cost reduction for heavy weapons for infantry, it seems like they will see much more play now. Your only real issue will be fitting enough in the detachments, since now bringing in vanguards to add elites will severly handicap you in terms of CP.

 

I see the Ravenwing side also going through a similar change. Black Knights, I believe, got more expensive, while the increase in the regular bikers is minimal. In fact, their own special weapons went down in cost, which means a squad might even be cheaper now, than in 8th edition.

 

Bringing in two or three squads of terminators might be an amazing way to go, this time around. Deepstriking them into position, with extra CP for stratagems. Can't do the same with knights. Although, I do think their increase in cost is justified, when you factor in that the availability of CP will make these guys extremely hard to shift.

 

Consider being able to give them Transhuman Physiology every turn, and even Fortress of Shields in every round of combat. That is seriously good. A squad of these guys, with the FnP5+ of the Pennant of Rememberance, plus the new rules for Storm Shields (should they apply to them), means you get 10 to 20 wounds that can only be injured at 4+/5+, and with 1+/4++/5+++ saves on top of that.

 

The thing we need to keep in mind is the fact that we all need to get used to fights being much smaller in size. Much, much smaller.

Edited July 13, 2020 by Berzul

[solarisqc]

... plus the new rules for Storm Shields (should they apply to them)...

They fix the storm shield issue in the FAQ, now it's +1 to the roll and only for the new unit (bladeguard, lieutenant and captain).

Edited July 13, 2020 by solarisqc

[oldmanlee]

Ravenwing are clearly the big winner by the looks of things Edited July 13, 2020 by oldmanlee

[Berzul]

Ravenwing are clearly the big winner by the looks of things

I do feel like the terminators are.

 

C'mon, they stayed the same cost, in a sea of increases! I'm, tempted at running 30 guys in a Vanguard, just to see the look on my opponent's face

[oldmanlee]

 

Ravenwing are clearly the big winner by the looks of things

 

I do feel like the terminators are.

 

C'mon, they stayed the same cost, in a sea of increases! I'm, tempted at running 30 guys in a Vanguard, just to see the look on my opponent's face

Pure deathwing would be the only thing to get me somewhat hyped to play 40k and 9th

[Interrogator Stobz]

Can anyone comment on Landraider points?, research is hard atm...

[Brother Bahram]

Not sure but LR 175 LRC 215

Can misheard

[Interrogator Stobz]

Cheers Brother :tu:

Landslides full of DW will likely be fantastic again.

Probably their last gasp, I'm going to make the most of it.

[Cpt_Reaper]

Cheers Brother

Landslides full of DW will likely be fantastic again.

Probably their last gasp, I'm going to make the most of it.

 

Running multiple Land Raiders is now known as a Landslide.

[Interrogator Stobz]

lolz; silly autocratic cucumber on fone.

But still actually true :P

[Fierce Bear]

As long as you take your warlord as part of a detachment now you can get the CP refunded so you can run Greenwing (Battalion), Ravenwing (outrider) or Deathwing (vanguard) right?

 

Sure a few limitations around HQs but if I'm not mistaken our elites (DW/RW) mean they can supplement HQs nicely...

 

I see me building lists around each as a 'Pure' army...

 

I was wondering about impeccable mobility for the Talon Master until I read the FAQ... run it in every game you can before it's nerfed?!

 

 

*Page 56 – Impeccable Mobility

Change this Warlord Trait to read:

‘Whilst they are within 6" of this Warlord, models in Ravenwing units from your army that have Advanced this turn can treat any Heavy weapons they are equipped with as Assault weapons.

 

In addition, such models do not suffer the penalty for Advancing and firing Assault weapons.’

 

 

Always advancing (I'll take Jink on everything please), always firing everything (cos there all Assault weapons now...), With no minus... But wait... Tactical doctrine for two turns right?

[solarisqc]

As long as you take your warlord as part of a detachment now you can get the CP refunded so you can run Greenwing (Battalion), Ravenwing (outrider) or Deathwing (vanguard) right?

 

Sure a few limitations around HQs but if I'm not mistaken our elites (DW/RW) mean they can supplement HQs nicely...

 

I see me building lists around each as a 'Pure' army...

 

I was wondering about impeccable mobility for the Talon Master until I read the FAQ... run it in every game you can before it's nerfed?!

 

 

*Page 56 – Impeccable Mobility

Change this Warlord Trait to read:

‘Whilst they are within 6" of this Warlord, models in Ravenwing units from your army that have Advanced this turn can treat any Heavy weapons they are equipped with as Assault weapons.

 

In addition, such models do not suffer the penalty for Advancing and firing Assault weapons.’

 

 

Always advancing (I'll take Jink on everything please), always firing everything (cos there all Assault weapons now...), With no minus... But wait... Tactical doctrine for two turns right?

 

In a Sammy and TL rerolls and no cover save bubble...

 

For the Lion!

This is what i don't like from the new GW, they make a little change to DA and it make unexpected change that make a unit OP with a realy specific combo so they nerf it and it become useless and hurt the casual player. (super DA doctrin have less than 1 month of play before getting nerf)

 

DA have a realy tricky balance with the tri wing, the greenwing are mostly inferior to other marine and it's with the Deathwing and Ravenwing that the DA can shine.

 

Can't wait for the lion to wake up and fix the DA organisation!

[G8Keeper]

The CP refund doesn't apply to Outrider, Vanguard or Spearhead I believe.

 

Tabletop tactics (subscriber vids) have a Ravenwing battle vs Tau up at the moment. Nothing competitive but woah do our boys in black bring the hurt to the table.

[Berzul]

Cheers Brother :tu:

Landslides full of DW will likely be fantastic again.

Probably their last gasp, I'm going to make the most of it.

The last march of the Ents... I mean, of the Terminators.

 

Ik all seriousness, I know our Terminators as we know them have their days numbered (in a sense), but boy will it be nice to field them at the dying of the age, brothers.

[Fajita Fan]

Cheers Brother

Landslides full of DW will likely be fantastic again.

Probably their last gasp, I'm going to make the most of it.

But can you charge out of a Landraider anymore?  I thought they removed assault vehicles. 

[Interrogator Stobz]

Doesn't matter really. just drive up and teleport in, or not depending upon the mission and opponent.
If you die due to some shenanigans by turn 2 then at least it's been a fast game.

Now that Chaplain Dreads are Legend, they can prepare the Index: Legends for TDA and LRs, but until then our wonderful toys that we've honored for decades get to be efficient and awesome.

Edited July 14, 2020 by Interrogator Stobz

[Skywrath]

So, with some of the points increase leaks out today I might be reshelving my Dark Angel list for a bit.  I know a lot of armies have seen an increase accross the board, but My list centered on aggressors/azrael bubble anchoring 2 LARGE squads of DWK.  Well, both have seen BIG points increases.  Aggressors went up 8 points a model, and DWK went up 10 points a model.  Man  just off those two units alone my list went up 248 points.  

 

Regular termis came out alright, probably even ahead of the curve.  Might be some play in that, but losing out on doctrines and now hits to our special units leaves me scratching my head and wondering where to find our special flavor.

 

I'm excited to see what new styles of play we come up with, I just hope we find a unique style that doesn't rely on character abuse/Talonmaster spam.

 

What do yall see?  Where can we make our mark?  What new lists are yall looking to try?

 

 

Also, salt salt salt.

 

Same here. My unit lists had 9 aggressors, 9 DWK and azrael in it. I'm thinking about shelving my DA for 9th and focusing on my GK - compared to the other factions they weren't hit as hard. Which is a shame, because with all the effort I put into painting my aggressors, it's all gone for nought. Hopefully in a few months time, those units will be less overcosted.

[G8Keeper]

I think we all need to remember to not compare points changes to 8th edition.  9th is in effect a new game and ALL armies have had points increases, some units more than others.  I for one think DWK needed a hike and 45pts is probably fair once you take into account the sheer amount of stratagem support you can throw their way. We are going to need to adapt our armies and tactics, but surely that's the fun part? Ravenwing are still bloomin tasty and I'm really looking forward to getting my Deathwing on sometime soon in fact, you could argue we're almost the poster boys for old marines at the moment.

 

Several people in the know have said we do not have the whole 9th edition picture yet and that changes are indeed coming 9 (I believe someone said we have around 1/3 of the picture so far).  Colour me excited!

[Knaster]

*Page 56 – Impeccable Mobility

Change this Warlord Trait to read:

‘Whilst they are within 6" of this Warlord, models in Ravenwing units from your army that have Advanced this turn can treat any Heavy weapons they are equipped with as Assault weapons.

 

In addition, such models do not suffer the penalty for Advancing and firing Assault weapons.’

 

 

So, how should we interpret this?

Would a squad of Black knights be able and advance and shoot with their assault weapons without a -1 to hit?

The wording: "_such_ models do not suffer the penalty..." implies that ignore -1 only applies to units that have their Heavy weapons treated as Assault.

 

So a normal unit, even within the Talonmaster aura would have normal penalty?

 

Anyway the second Talonmaster with Huntsmaster WL and Corvus Oculus is gonna be a real character hunter now. 

Before it gets nerfed..

[G8Keeper]

It depends if "such models" refers to "models in Ravenwing units from your army that have Advanced this turn" or the whole paragraph. Probably one for an FAQ.

[Angel of Solitude]

It depends if "such models" refers to "models in Ravenwing units from your army that have Advanced this turn" or the whole paragraph. Probably one for an FAQ.

 

I think I'm with G8Keeper on this one. The full expanded paragraph in my mind is:

 

"...models in Ravenwing units from your army that have Advanced this turn do not suffer the penalty for Advancing and firing Assault weapons."

 

This matches the original intent of the warlord trait as per Ritual of the Damned. 

[Knaster]

 

It depends if "such models" refers to "models in Ravenwing units from your army that have Advanced this turn" or the whole paragraph. Probably one for an FAQ.

 

I think I'm with G8Keeper on this one. The full expanded paragraph in my mind is:

 

"...models in Ravenwing units from your army that have Advanced this turn do not suffer the penalty for Advancing and firing Assault weapons."

 

This matches the original intent of the warlord trait as per Ritual of the Damned. 

 

Yes, it very much does match the original WL trait in Ritual.

 

Yeah, I'll go for this to start with :)

Tacks for the replies!

[Fierce Bear]

This is what i don't like from the new GW, they make a little change to DA and it make unexpected change that make a unit OP with a realy specific combo so they nerf it and it become useless and hurt the casual player. (super DA doctrin have less than 1 month of play before getting nerf)

 

DA have a realy tricky balance with the tri wing, the greenwing are mostly inferior to other marine and it's with the Deathwing and Ravenwing that the DA can shine.

 

Can't wait for the lion to wake up and fix the DA organisation!

 

You are right Stobz, this does I think create an unintended outcome, it becomes a draw as it gives your list/army a means to auto-stomp.

 

But as we are possibly are seeing is a unit like DWK suddenly get a points hike...

 

I think GW actually does a good job for the majority of the time to keep so many units relatively balanced but being a Dark Angel fan I am always want to feel if the dice are kind my DA flavoured units are a force to be reckoned with!

 

(I do think any Detachment with your warlord in it refunds the CP by the way, it's additional detachments that don't?)

 

Looking forward to 9th for Triwing and purewing!