Bobss Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 I recently finished rereading Helsreach for the umpteenth time and as always really enjoyed the no-frills Space Marines action it presents. It isn't the most thematic or emotive book in Black Library's arsenal, but it does what it says on the tin: presenting a Space Marine battle, expertly well and provides a great insight into the Imperial war machine for new readers and fans of the universe Feeling nostalgic, this got me thinking about the wider Space Marine Battles series, and while it was never a secret in the community that this line of books was never going to and never did match the Horus Heresy or other individual projects from a more thought-provoking angle, I have come to appreciate the things it did right over the things it did wrong Looking back, the SMB series seemed to replace the Imperial Guard regiment books for new writers to showcase their talent, the cover art still stands out as some of the best artwork in Black Library's entire release history and it paved the way for larger paperbacks that weren't the size of a stamp as well For what it's worth I consider the main SMB range to be Rynn's World through to Death of Integrity. After twelve books, the series devolved into the all-too-familiar swamp of anthologies, novellas, audio dramas, short stories, online exclusives and repackaged rereleases. But those twelve books, flawed as they may be, are a big part of Black Library's history that I enjoyed being a part of in my later teenage years. When compared to its successors - things like the Space Marine Legends and Space Marine Conquests series, I firmly believe SMB stands well above the pack Looking back, how do you guys feel about Space Marine Battles - and would you ever want to see it return to its glory days of full-length, streamlined releases - or was it merely a product of its era as Black Library transitioned from one decade to another? Roomsky, JH79, Tarvek Val and 1 other 4 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/ Share on other sites More sharing options...
aa.logan Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Battle For The Fang, Helsreach, Siege of Castellax and Wrath of Iron are still very good books, that I think stand up well. Others in the range I remember fondly, though I’ve not really felt the inclination to revisit them. Rynn’s World, the Black Dragons one both spring to mind. One or two were wholly pedestrian and I felt that some were actively bad- I couldn’t bring myself to finish two of them, which isn’t my usual approach. I’m going to say the covers were a mixed bag- Jon Sullivan’s artwork is amazing for them all, but the fade to white and framing didn’t really do it justice. Tarvek Val and Kelborn 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5562363 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted July 13, 2020 Share Posted July 13, 2020 Id argue at its heights it was easily as good as the Heresy series, specifically Battle for the Fang and Helsreach but a couple of others were solid like Rynns world and one of the Iron Hands ones before dropping to Meh or otherwise unmemorable books, only one was actively bad, something about fateweaver that i ended up ditching. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5562453 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roomsky Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 I’ve never had any reason to hold this apart from any other Black Library range. “ Helsreach” being the exception by virtue of its author, the rest ranged from forgettable to unreadable. “Wrath of Iron” is certainly an example of how to do a more by-the-numbers story very well, but I don’t think I could even finish a single one of the other entries I tried, including the much-loved “Battle of the Fang.” Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5562524 Share on other sites More sharing options...
mc warhammer Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Helsreach and Apocalypse are two of my favs from BL, i didn't even know what the "battles" banner was until recently Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5562672 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vazzy Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Legion of the Damned and Death of Integrity were both excellent in my opinion. Not necessarily ground breaking by any means, but both get consistent rereads from me, which is somewhat rare for 40k novels. Xisor and RedFurioso 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5562674 Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkChaplain Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 I'll second Death of Integrity being up there. Two contrasting Space Marine Chapters, a proper Space Hulk action on large scale, beyond what we see elsewhere with maybe 10 Terminators, STC and Dark Age elements... It was a cracking read. I also enjoyed The Death of Antagonis for its themes of faith, perceived monstrosity of the Emperor's own Space Marines, and the monstrosity of their actions in his service, as well as general topics of genetic purity and inner-Chapter schism potential over gene-seed quirks. Kelborn and RedFurioso 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5563067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockagh Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 Some good, some bad and some plain ugly offerings. The usual suspects of Helsreach, Battle of the Fang and Rynns world were superb. At the time I also enjoyed The Purging of Kadillus not because it’s a novel that compares with the three already mentioned but I enjoyed the focus on the scouts which doesn’t happen much. Although he did kind of butcher it by hardly mentioning that they were dark angels. Damnos and gildar rift were low points for me. I was looking forward to Sarah Cawkell book as it had been hyped but it turned out pretty bland. Would I want to see a return to the battles series? No. I got really bored with Space Marine stuff and looked for something more, which I get now and enjoy far more. There’s still plenty of room for space marines though and I would rather see them handled through author driven series’s like Aaron’s Black legion books or Spears of the Emperor. These along with Guy Haley’s Blood angel books have allowed me to enjoy space marine books away from the Bolter porn of yesteryear. BL fiction has evolved since it began, it’s getting better. There’s more depth in the universe, the authors themselves are pushing for more in their work. Books like Eisenhorn, the inquisition war, Gaunt’s ghosts, Andy Hoares rogue trader books and the Enforcer trilogy paved the way for today’s universe wide sandbox. Some authors wrote marines brilliantly ADB is case in point. He’s superb at it. So space marine books yes, but the setting for them should be right. They are the galaxies superheroes but you can’t have superheroes if you don’t have everything else. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5563158 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xisor Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 I was generally dismissive of Space Marine books, but that's I think due to a particular preference. I was shocked by how much I enjoyed Battle of the Fang, and Helsreach seemed like a damn decent novel. A lot of the others, however, are more forgettable - despite that I enjoyed them. I'm broadly a huge fan of Gav's work, but Purging of Kadillus didn't tickle me remarkably. (The Namaan chapters I recall being very favourable towards.) The same goes for a lot of the others. (And the moaning about anthologies destroys me. I cry out for anthologies and novellas. I can't stand everything being a novel for no great desire.) --- But for my money, Legion of the Damned is head and shoulders above goodness knows how many other novels. The vividness, the peculiarity, the heart and soul and multi-layered nature of such an absurdly simple novel? It's glorious. I'd take Legion of the Damned above Soul Hunter, any day. (Blood Reaver's when that trilogy got ace, for my money. Soul Hunter felt nice in the style of Battle of the Fang and Helsreach - a solid, serviceable Marine story with depth and context and some clever twists to slot it into the lore.) ... The Hunt for Voldorius, on the other hand, I was less enamoured with. (Though also also, I really enjoyed the teleporter scene, that way.) Vazzy 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5563367 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noserenda Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 I had forgotten Legion of the Damned, i shall castigate myself appropriately ;) Battle for the Fang is one of the few books where the combat scenes hooked me enough that i punched the air and cheered at least once during that battle at the peak :) Which as a brit i immediately felt terrible about and had to have a cup of tea and a lie down :P Ingo Pech and Brother Lunkhead 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5563372 Share on other sites More sharing options...
byrd9999 Posted July 14, 2020 Share Posted July 14, 2020 A big NO to a return of the SMB series. I haven't read Helsreach or Death of Integrity (though I have them on my bookshelf), so the only one I have read is Battle of the Fang/ The Hunt for Magnus. The Thousand Sons are my favourite legion, but I just don't like battle scenes and I was bored reading about it. There were some cool nuggets tucked away, like the awakening of the grumpy dreadnoughts under The Fang, but it was too little reward amongst 500+ pages of battle after battle. If I don't like battles, why am I reading a SMB book, right? More fool me. But I much prefer books with fewer battle scenes, so I would rather BL concentrated on exploring other avenues of the Warhammer universe. Roomsky and Tarvek Val 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5563435 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sothalor Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I think the SMB series gets a bit of a bad rap overall as "Oh it's just BL doing the usual Space Marine bolterporrun, There were definitely the entries that fell into that particular rut, but many of them made the effort to dig into the participating Chapters' culture and background and outlook, or try to get into the POV of some interesting perspective. Ironically, I think some of the standout entries deserve a fair amount of credit for some of the less combat-focused Marine works we got down the line, like the excellent Dante. Noserenda and DarkChaplain 2 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5563496 Share on other sites More sharing options...
MegaVolt87 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 There were two Damnos books with UM vs Necrons I wanted to read but never got around to buying. They any good? My faves are Helsreach, seige of castelax and wrath of iron. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5563604 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH79 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I think SMB was great, an easy no frills way in for people new to the setting while also catering to parts of the existing fanbase, some real stand out titles and a few really great audio drama's which really pushed what Heavy Ent had produced for BL to date. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5563680 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockagh Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I think SMB was great, an easy no frills way in for people new to the setting while also catering to parts of the existing fanbase, some real stand out titles and a few really great audio drama's which really pushed what Heavy Ent had produced for BL to date. Do you think space marine battles are the best way to enter 40k fiction? Perhaps your right but I think it can play to the stereotype that 40k is just military sci-fi. Which is a common belief among comic book and fantasy fans. Gamers may enjoy battle books but readers would probably enjoy something a bit fuller than that I think. JH79 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5563789 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kelborn Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 (edited) Rank 1: Helsreach Rank 2: Battle of the Fang & Wrath of Iron Rank 3 and beyond: rest and those I haven't read Fight me. If you haven't read these three, you're missing some gold nuggets from the SMB series. Still the BEST Iron Hands novel among these, one of the best Vlka novels and by freaking far the absolute best Black Templars story ever imagined! Helsreach is a no 1 must read for anyone who wants to dive into 40k. "GRIMALDUS!" gets me every time Edited July 15, 2020 by Kelborn Lord_Caerolion, Tarvek Val and JH79 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5564034 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenzaburo Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I agree on Helsreach and Fang, those were great, which is no surprise considering their authors. THe only other I tried was Damnos, the first one. I like the Ultramarines and really really wanted to like Sicarius, but ... I never got through the book. I was bored by the plot, found the characters unengaging and never got through it. Sorry, Nick. To be honest though, I dislike many of the Ultramarines novels - didn't enjoy McNeills 4th company Ventris books, didn't like Kyme's approach. What I enjoyed was Abnett's version in of the Chapter/Legion in Know no Fear and Haley's in the Dark Imperium books as well as in Pharos. But I digress: Helsreach and Fang all the way. And I always wanted to read Rynn's World, but haven't gotten to it so far. Tarvek Val 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5564117 Share on other sites More sharing options...
JH79 Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 I think SMB was great, an easy no frills way in for people new to the setting while also catering to parts of the existing fanbase, some real stand out titles and a few really great audio drama's which really pushed what Heavy Ent had produced for BL to date. Do you think space marine battles are the best way to enter 40k fiction? Perhaps your right but I think it can play to the stereotype that 40k is just military sci-fi. Which is a common belief among comic book and fantasy fans. Gamers may enjoy battle books but readers would probably enjoy something a bit fuller than that I think. Sorry for the late reply, put it down to an endless list of household chores and the ever increasing demands of a 6 and 3 year old! :) Re your post, i don't think there is a best introduction to the 40K universe and in reality i don't think it actually matters as eventually all roads lead to Rome. Very top line my far from perfect introduction looks something like this: 1993 - Plays Space Hulk Demo on repeat for 2 months solid as a terrified 12 year old 1993 > 1994 - Picked up the odd copy of White Dwarf because the dudes with massive guns looked just like Space Hulk and the latest issue of Manga Mania hadn't dropped 1995 > 2009 - MIA due to reasons 2010 - Saw books in Waterstones featuring dudes with massive guns... interest was kindled 2011 - Saw more books in Waterstones featuring dudes with massive guns... interest reached boiling point 2012 - Wanted to know who the hell this dude called The Emperor was so started searching for Space Hulk... found and LOVED Gav Thorpes Space Hulk Novella, and a fan made audiobook adaption of said Novella on You Tube read by James Murphy. That book drew me in and transported me right back to being an innocent 12 year old 2013 - What's this, Horus Rising... Helsreach... Blood in the Machine... Holy *cuss*!! The rest as they say is history. Gav's Space Hulk Novella is, well lets face it, it's pretty crap when compared to anything released in the last 10 years by Abnett, ADB, Wraight and even Thorpe himself. But, as bad as it may be, i still love it! It finally opened the door to this amazing universe and when my son is a little older I'm going to offer to read it to him at bed time and hope to god he's as fascinated and terrified by it as i remember being when playing that demo so long ago. There is absolutely no perfect way into this universe, but if someone picks up Death of Integrity, The World Engine or Helsreach and has their mind blown then wants to know more, how can that possibly be a bad thing? If every book released was the equal of Horus Rising, Soul Hunter, Watchers of the Throne or Clonelord what would make those titles stand out as much as they do? They wouldn't, they'd just be more of the same. I love a bit of Hollywood nonsense from time to time (I'm looking at you Armageddon!) and SMB provided plenty of that along with a few gems which really made me love this setting all the more for it. aa.logan, Knockagh and Xisor 3 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5564226 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarvek Val Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 For the most part, the SMB novels were enjoyable reads for me. However, they were very obviously action-based novels, with the plot being driven almost solely by conflict. As such, I feel that character development for many of the series' protagonists was lacking to some extent. Tyrant of the Hollow Worlds comes to mind as an example — while the book went into detail describing the Hollow Worlds (which are actually a really cool concept!), I learned very little about Huron Blackheart, Garreon, Valthex, and the other Red Corsairs beyond what I had already known going into the text. Helsreach, Battle of the Fang, and Wrath of Iron did excellent jobs of actually fleshing out the characters in the story, beyond just "Battle A to Battle B to Battle C." Overall, I'd say I enjoyed most of the series well enough, and think it would serve well as an intro to the 40k universe. DarkChaplain 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5564252 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knockagh Posted July 15, 2020 Share Posted July 15, 2020 @JH79, I have a 6 and a 3 year old! It’s crazy. That’s a good answer. Probably everybody’s entrance is different and certainly the books that keep you coming back will vary greatly. White Dwarf from the local shop definitely kept my interest going year on year. Also rule books played a big part, I would reread all the fluff from the rule books often. Rogue trader still gets a good skim over every so often. Then you have imperial armour and later dark heresy and other fantasy flight. I can’t really say space marine books played much of a role in keeping my interest going but your right there’s no one road. JH79 1 Back to top Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5564254 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apothecary Vaddon Posted July 16, 2020 Share Posted July 16, 2020 I loved Rynn's World (scene where Pedro carries the old woman was great), Helsreach was great, Battle of the Fang is a classic, the Iron Hands one was glorious too. The rest were kinda eh, but that's more or less par for the course. I did enjoy the giant daemon worm scene in the Black Dragons one, that was a great one to pull out on the ol' spacebattles as a daemon feat. But overall I don't really want to see it return, mostly because I'm more interested in the Indomitus era right now. SMB or a similar series is imo a good idea because it gives you opportunities in one-shots to flesh out chapters beyond brief blurbs or excerpts in codices, or to bring light on some really crazy events, but I think focusing on larger situations (like TBA, Indomitus Crusade, Unification Wars, etc) is a little more along what I am waiting for right now. Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5564934 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaoself Posted July 17, 2020 Share Posted July 17, 2020 I have only read Rynn's World but I liked it enough to search for that ugly Cortez miniature for some time. :) Link to comment https://bolterandchainsword.com/topic/365111-space-marine-battles-a-retrospective/#findComment-5565067 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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