Thoughts on the 9th ed Crusade rules

[Marshal Rohr]

The best way to enforce ‘true’ results on rolls is to report your game results to the game master and they roll since the position of game master already involves a level of trust.

[Doghouse]

Looking throught the full rules for it they are actually really nice. There is a lot more to it than I orignally thought.

[ThePenitentOne]

Crusade seems like its going to be the go to in my FLGS from now on - just the fact they made the missions 'matched' is fantastic and means you should be able to play these games against any strangers and be confident it will be a good one.

 

 

Two tweaks that we'll be doing to it are:

 

- Crusade Roster is in Power, but games are in Points. So you won't have to note down the nitty gritty when creating the roster, but you'll draw from that a balanced list to use in a game.

 

 

- You can play any sized game, even with your 50 Power Roster.

 

This means its less of a slow grow league, and more RPGy. You can arrange a 2,000pts game with your opponent, and within your army 50 Power of it is your crusade force (while your opponent may have more if they started their crusade earlier).

 

Only those units from your Roster gain experience and battle honours ect, but you don't have to play the smaller game modes if you don't want to.

I really like these adaptations. The way you're using both points and power is exactly the way I see myself playing, but the part about adding non-Crusade forces to a Crusade army for a specific battle is something I hadn't thought about. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Slave to Darkness]

Playing small scale <500 points Crusade games sounds like exactly the kind of game I have sometimes wished there was. Bigger and less restrictive than Kill Team, but smaller than full on 40K.

 

My feeling is that there are a lot of optional rules for terrain etc (and bigger stuff like Cities of Death) that a lot of people, myself included, simply don't bother with when you're playing a full scale 40k game. Playing on a smaller board with fewer units to keep track of will make it easier to include the more detailed aspects, and the campaign element allows those games to feel like they have more meaning.

Ahh the thought of a Cityfight campaign pleases me greatly, and an all Chaos 'Path to Glory' campaign needs doing as well I think. 

[TrawlingCleaner]

Now I have the book and have read through the honours etc, my players will definitely be rolling for them. It's not that I think they're untrustworthy, I just think the power level between armies will become out of control if some players are rolling and others and others aren't. I'll allow them a reroll if the honour they got does not functionally work

[BitsHammer]

Crusade will only be as good as the strength of the narrative behind it. If you can't work all that out first and just throw down, I think you won't be having as much fun IMO. Even a crusade in the Indomnitus/ Vigilus setting using that existing lore would work if you aren't handcrafting a custom scenario D&D style.

Which is part of the reason I spent a fair but of time coming up with a Renegade Chapter hooked on bionic body modification thanks to being "rescued" by a Dark Magos after the Great Rift opening wrecked their ship and left the chapter heavily injured.

 

Still trying to work out the rules I want to lean on for the army, but visually I'm looking at kitbashing Ad Mech with CSM with the goal of not having any two models look the same.

[Varizel]

I did try 3 games with crusade last weekend... even though it was quite enjoyable, we did hit a snag though. We played with 25 PL and using the D3 missions and hit Supply Drop. Both of us used the Sentinel Agenda (where you had to stay on the objectives till the battle end to gain extra experience). On turn 4 my stated objectives for Sentinel was randomly taken away, ditto to my opponents on turn 5. The book never specified how this is resolved since both of our stated objective markers are gone before the game ended. In the end, we ruled it out as nobody got extra exp... but yeah... it seems FAQ & Clarifications are probably needed.

[MegaVolt87]

 

Playing small scale <500 points Crusade games sounds like exactly the kind of game I have sometimes wished there was. Bigger and less restrictive than Kill Team, but smaller than full on 40K.

 

My feeling is that there are a lot of optional rules for terrain etc (and bigger stuff like Cities of Death) that a lot of people, myself included, simply don't bother with when you're playing a full scale 40k game. Playing on a smaller board with fewer units to keep track of will make it easier to include the more detailed aspects, and the campaign element allows those games to feel like they have more meaning.

Ahh the thought of a Cityfight campaign pleases me greatly, and an all Chaos 'Path to Glory' campaign needs doing as well I think. 

 

 

Thinking about weather I want to adapt the old cityfight book stuff or track down urban conquest and go from there. I wonder how urban conquest rolls into 9th ed. 

[ThePenitentOne]

Urban conquest includes all of the Cityfight rules, plus a map based campaign system called Streets of Death.

 

The new 40k rules for terrain are better than the Cityfight rules (IMO), but Streets of Death is still a viable way of organizing a campaign, although there are 4 special Streets of Death territories which each contain a) a key building b) strategems which can be used by whoever controls the key building and c) a special mission to be used for battles at this territory. These would need a bit of tweaking- especially the missions. Still pretty usable though.

 

What I did was take the concept of Streets of Death and replicate it with 25 shared folders on a Google drive. Then I changed the rules so that you have to have an occupying force in a territory to control it. Players represent this by dropping a roster file detailing the troops they have stationed at that territory.

 

I'm not sure Urban Conquest is worth the price now that Cityfight rules aren't really necessary; because all of the Cityfight rules also appeared in one of the CA books, many would argue that it wasn't worth the price even in its prime. Streets of Death was pretty cool though.

[Disruptor_fe404]

I did try 3 games with crusade last weekend... even though it was quite enjoyable, we did hit a snag though. We played with 25 PL and using the D3 missions and hit Supply Drop. Both of us used the Sentinel Agenda (where you had to stay on the objectives till the battle end to gain extra experience). On turn 4 my stated objectives for Sentinel was randomly taken away, ditto to my opponents on turn 5. The book never specified how this is resolved since both of our stated objective markers are gone before the game ended. In the end, we ruled it out as nobody got extra exp... but yeah... it seems FAQ & Clarifications are probably needed.

Sounds like you did it correctly. You get to pick your agendas, so one of the the (many) risks of Sentinels is that if you pick it and your objective disappears, you lose out in the XP.

[Sword Brother Adelard]

 

I did try 3 games with crusade last weekend... even though it was quite enjoyable, we did hit a snag though. We played with 25 PL and using the D3 missions and hit Supply Drop. Both of us used the Sentinel Agenda (where you had to stay on the objectives till the battle end to gain extra experience). On turn 4 my stated objectives for Sentinel was randomly taken away, ditto to my opponents on turn 5. The book never specified how this is resolved since both of our stated objective markers are gone before the game ended. In the end, we ruled it out as nobody got extra exp... but yeah... it seems FAQ & Clarifications are probably needed.

Sounds like you did it correctly. You get to pick your agendas, so one of the the (many) risks of Sentinels is that if you pick it and your objective disappears, you lose out in the XP.

It's clearly worth a quick email to the FAQ inbox.

[Disruptor_fe404]

I guess? Seems clear to me, since agendas are chosen by players after they know the mission. Nothing wrong with getting more clarity though!

[MegaVolt87]

I'm surprised at how much you actually get to pick for things you have to roll for for things like battle honours. The crusade relics are great, shame there aren't really any warlord traits though in comparison. 

[BitsHammer]

I'm surprised at how much you actually get to pick for things you have to roll for for things like battle honours. The crusade relics are great, shame there aren't really any warlord traits though in comparison. 

I'd need to sit down with the book (can't get mine until Thurs), but IIRC the leaks correctly, you should be able to pick honors if you see some that fit the unit's narrative.

 

I assume some crusade warlord traits will be coming with the codexes.

[ThePenitentOne]

I like Crusade a lot, though I haven't actually played yet. I also like the idea that there is faction specific Crusade content on the way.

 

My issue is that I want to get playing Crusade right away, but as soon as dexes drop, I need to respec, or reboot the Crusade- especially if faction specific Crusade content actually lives up to its potential. How long do you wait? How long do you get while Crusade rules are still valid before 10th drops.

 

It would have been better to release all the faction specific Crusade content in a single book early in the edition. That way all of us would get the entire edition to play Crusade with our respective armies. 

 

I think I'm pulling the trigger and starting, and when I get my dex I'll cross the bridge then.

[Disruptor_fe404]

If you're playing in the kind of Crusade that has an end date, you could get everyone to agree to just use the rulebook battle honours and agendas for the duration.

[BitsHammer]

I'm not too fussed about faction specific Crusade stuff taking a bit longer to trickle out. All that stuff needs playtesting and I'm very interested in what they come up with.

 

Tyranids will be interesting for Crusade for sure.

[Cheex]

Our group played one round of Crusade last week and had a blast. We played with our full 50PL OOBs using the suggested board size. My opponent and I worked out that our armies were both roughly 950pts.

 

The game went quickly, considering how much we were flipping through the leaked PDF to figure things out. With the full rulebook in hand things will be a lot quicker. We were worried at first about the table size, but it actually worked out really well. 

 

What I loved was that even though I won my battle, I was wiped out and I ended up failing three Out of Action tests (and promptly forgot I could just sacrifice their meagre XP gains from the game), which meant my Victor Bonuses were largely wasted. It's an extra dimension to consider before you sacrifice your army for the victory.

 

It took a bit of "reprogramming" to get in the narrative mindset with the post-game stuff. Stop analysing what's "best" and start thinking about what would happen in that narrative situation. This is something my D&D DM has to remind me to do every now and then, and was good advice for Crusade as well.

 

Big thumbs up from me, looking forward to next week's campaign day.

[Marshal Rohr]

My main concern is the length of time it will take to grow into 2000 point sized armies. If you can only get in one game a month, you’re looking at several months to hit the 200 PL mark, assuming you suicide RP into more power levels. I’m wondering if it wouldn’t be wise to double to the PL you get for devoting RP into expanding the army, or maybe even starting at 100 PL.

[BitsHammer]

My main concern is the length of time it will take to grow into 2000 point sized armies. If you can only get in one game a month, you’re looking at several months to hit the 200 PL mark, assuming you suicide RP into more power levels. I’m wondering if it wouldn’t be wise to double to the PL you get for devoting RP into expanding the army, or maybe even starting at 100 PL.

I think the idea is to lower the bar to entry for people just starting their armies, and you could easily have a group rule where everyone's Crusade grows at a fixed rate Escalation League style.

[Redcomet]

My main concern is the length of time it will take to grow into 2000 point sized armies. If you can only get in one game a month, you’re looking at several months to hit the 200 PL mark, assuming you suicide RP into more power levels. I’m wondering if it wouldn’t be wise to double to the PL you get for devoting RP into expanding the army, or maybe even starting at 100 PL.

I think it is one if the main ideas behind Crusade is a system that slowly builds an army

[BitsHammer]

 

My main concern is the length of time it will take to grow into 2000 point sized armies. If you can only get in one game a month, you’re looking at several months to hit the 200 PL mark, assuming you suicide RP into more power levels. I’m wondering if it wouldn’t be wise to double to the PL you get for devoting RP into expanding the army, or maybe even starting at 100 PL.

I think it is one if the main ideas behind Crusade is a system that slowly builds an army

 

Yup. A 40k Blood and Glory system, but with better balance. Basically it's an escalation league system.

[Marshal Rohr]

I appreciate that, but hopefully future expansions will go down the route of the Tempus Fugitives and have you build 300 PL army lists with no room for additions, only replacements, and then you select from the list as now to better show a full functioning crusade army on a campaign and not just an army over time.

 

Don’t get me wrong, Crusade is great, but I don’t wanna spend six months getting to 150 PL where I normally play. Also there’s a bit of confusion between open and narrative play with open play being more like traditional narrative and now narrative is just escalation league.

 

 

Or, even better, you build you army around detachments with each detachment gaining a detachment experience bonus too. So you’ve got like a guard platoon patrol detachment that performs well and become more elite over time, instead of just individual squads.

Edited July 28, 2020 by Marshal Rohr

[RandyB]

I appreciate that, but hopefully future expansions will go down the route of the Tempus Fugitives and have you build 300 PL army lists with no room for additions, only replacements, and then you select from the list as now to better show a full functioning crusade army on a campaign and not just an army over time.

 

Don’t get me wrong, Crusade is great, but I don’t wanna spend six months getting to 150 PL where I normally play. Also there’s a bit of confusion between open and narrative play with open play being more like traditional narrative and now narrative is just escalation league.

 

 

Or, even better, you build you army around detachments with each detachment gaining a detachment experience bonus too. So you’ve got like a guard platoon patrol detachment that performs well and become more elite over time, instead of just individual squads.

All of that sounds easy enough to house rule for your Crusade campaign.

[BitsHammer]

 

I appreciate that, but hopefully future expansions will go down the route of the Tempus Fugitives and have you build 300 PL army lists with no room for additions, only replacements, and then you select from the list as now to better show a full functioning crusade army on a campaign and not just an army over time.

 

Don’t get me wrong, Crusade is great, but I don’t wanna spend six months getting to 150 PL where I normally play. Also there’s a bit of confusion between open and narrative play with open play being more like traditional narrative and now narrative is just escalation league.

 

 

Or, even better, you build you army around detachments with each detachment gaining a detachment experience bonus too. So you’ve got like a guard platoon patrol detachment that performs well and become more elite over time, instead of just individual squads.

All of that sounds easy enough to house rule for your Crusade campaign.

 

It's a narrative system, house rules are a given.

 

For those of us who will be doing this basically solo (not too many truly narrative players in my area), the base rules are fine. Especially if you use it as an excuse to start a new army.