Valkyrie Grav Chute Insertion and Flying back on the Board

[Diagramdude]

Grav Chute Insertion: Models may disembark from this vehicle at any point during its move, but if they do they cannot move further during this phase; if the vehicle moves 20" or more, you must roll a D6 for each model disembarking. On a 1, that model is slain. Models that disembark in this manner must be set up more than 9" from any enemy models.

 

In 8th this was one of the rare transport abilities to disembark after you moved the Valkyrie. How will this work in 9th with the Valkyrie able to leave the board and return anywhere on the board the following movement phase? Could the passengers still disembark after the deep strike? If so this seems extremely useful! Units in peril could fall back into the Valkyrie and then the Valkyrie flies off the board. That keeps all of them safe for a turn and threaten to deep strike anywhere. 

 

Dakka Valkyrie with rocket pods and multilaser is down to 120 from 121, and infantry BS4+ plasmas and meltas are down to only 5 points!

[Diagramdude]

IA faq says Elysian drop troops can disembark out of a Valkyrie after it deep strikes, so although it’s written from 8th it should be carrying over into the start of 9th.

[Shamansky]

The unit coming from reserves counts as having moved the distance equal to its' Movement characteristic. RAW you can not deploy a Valkyrie in hover mode, because you declare that before the aircraft moves and technically it appears on the table after it has already moved by the rule of strategic reserves. So the Valkyrie would be counted as having moved more that 20", 45" actually. As the Grav-chute Insertion was not changed yet, so you will be able to drop passengers out after the craft comes from reserves, but will have to roll D6 for each model. Scions' Presision Drop stratagem will come in very handy. Also works with Vendettas

Edited July 16, 2020 by Shamansky

[Diagramdude]

Good. I think it will leave too much off the board to send a fully loaded Valkyrie off the board to set up a next turn deep strike, but it may be very clutch to fall back a unit that would otherwise die into a damaged Valkyrie to rescue a bad situation. Then you threaten the whole board with which otherwise would be lost units, and you'll always have the CP for precision drop because it is only 1 CP so even if you're at 0 you'll gain the 1 you need at the top of the turn. 

[Shamansky]

Just remember that you can't deepstrike the aircraft closer to enemy than 9". So Presision drop will only mitigate killing passengers on disembarking (Vigilus version —all passengers, The Greater Good — tempestus only). And in this case you better off with just dropping scions by their own Aerial drop ability which will save you the price of aircraft .

Edited July 17, 2020 by Shamansky

[Emicus]

There is a 5" drop from valkyrie stratagem. Excellent for melta!

[Shamansky]

There is a 5" drop from valkyrie stratagem. Excellent for melta!

It works only if the aircraft was on the table and Normal moved to enemy.  Otherwise it is not closer than 6" (9"-3" for disembark) and not WITHIN half range of meltagun.

[Diagramdude]

Incorrect. You would put the Valkyrie 9.01 inches from target, and passengers 3.00 inches from the Valkyrie base. The far side of the meltagun model’s base would now be well within 6” of the target.

 

Also, I agree the natural scion deep strike is a more efficient way to deliver a first strike. The tactic I’m discussing here is more of a rescue and redeploy. In 8th when you wanted to embark into a Valkyrie mid game, say because you had killed everything on one side of the table, you would have to hope it wasn’t blown apart in the opponents turn. Now you can embark, have the Valkyrie fly off into invulnerability, and come back anywhere on the board to unload it’s passengers. That seems really good!

[BluejayJunior]

Incorrect. You would put the Valkyrie 9.01 inches from target, and passengers 3.00 inches from the Valkyrie base. The far side of the meltagun model’s base would now be well within 6” of the target.

 

Also, I agree the natural scion deep strike is a more efficient way to deliver a first strike. The tactic I’m discussing here is more of a rescue and redeploy. In 8th when you wanted to embark into a Valkyrie mid game, say because you had killed everything on one side of the table, you would have to hope it wasn’t blown apart in the opponents turn. Now you can embark, have the Valkyrie fly off into invulnerability, and come back anywhere on the board to unload it’s passengers. That seems really good!

Disembarking requires the models to be wholly within 3" (I think this is a change from 8th). So the closest a model could be is 6.01 inches. 

[Diagramdude]

Point taken! That does hurt meltas and might tip things in favor of more plasma guns in running a Valkyrie list.

[Emicus]

 

 

There is a 5" drop from valkyrie stratagem. Excellent for melta!

It works only if the aircraft was on the table and Normal moved to enemy. Otherwise it is not closer than 6" (9"-3" for disembark) and not WITHIN half range of meltagun.

Well sure, but starting on the board with 20-40" move gets you practically anywhere! 3x4man command squads that can hop out along the flight path, you can nab 3 different targets if placement is good. Then deep strike commanders for orders, if necessary

[Shamansky]

 

Well sure, but starting on the board with 20-40" move gets you practically anywhere! 3x4man command squads that can hop out along the flight path, you can nab 3 different targets if placement is good. Then deep strike commanders for orders, if necessary

 

I thought we were talking about deep striking an aircraft

[Emicus]

 

 

Well sure, but starting on the board with 20-40" move gets you practically anywhere! 3x4man command squads that can hop out along the flight path, you can nab 3 different targets if placement is good. Then deep strike commanders for orders, if necessary

 

I thought we were talking about deep striking an aircraft

 

 

Could be my misunderstanding but there appeared to be a plethora of questions in Original Post.

 

One of them was "flying off the board, returning, jumping out", which doesnt count as strategic reserves, I think. In which case we have 4 different situations:

 

+ Being on board, flying, chuting out (2 applicable stratagems, 2 for dmg mitigation, 1 for 5")

+ Being on board, hover, jumping out (standard transport) OR chuting out (2 strats again^)

+ Deep Striking plane, which I`ve been trying to find the rules for but can`t. Perhaps it`s Strategic Reserves (coming in from a board edge)

+ Going off the field, coming back on the next turn.

 

When it comes to Valk n passengers in reserve, the 5" stratagem only affects the grav chute range, not the "has to deploy x away from enemy" base rule of reserves.

 

My take: Make sure you go first, deploy on board. Otherwise you may as well put things straight into deep strike and save the plane.

[Shamansky]

 

+ Deep Striking plane, which I`ve been trying to find the rules for but can`t. Perhaps it`s Strategic Reserves (coming in from a board edge)

+ Going off the field, coming back on the next turn.

 

 

the 5" presision drop stratagem lets you disembark closer than the Grav-chute usual 9" range. which is the case when the aircraft moves more than 20". And coming from reserves is maximum possible move. so unless your valkyrie is in in the lowest brackets of damage table it will be moving more than 20" and to disembark you'll have to use Grav-chute insertion

[Diagramdude]

Yes I'm okay with rolling for my models if I don't use the stratagem. But are we sure if models can disembark after the valkyrie deep strikes onto the board the turn after flying off the board? Also, it says the passengers can disembark at any point along the Valkyrie's move. But it just appears on the board. Do you nominate a point on a board edge and draw a line to the Valkyrie's position? Then the passengers could basically drop anywhere on the board. 

[Shamansky]

There's no 'along', there's 'during'. The only limit is units must be placed wholly within 3" from the transport and 9" away from enemy. And now i see what could be the only problem here: disembarking would take place in Reinfocements sub-phase. There's no strict prohibitions anywhere, but some people may argue that as disembarking should be made before reinfocements because of general disembarking order. And normally that would be true. But  Grave-chute insertion wording lets you disembark at any point during the transport's move, and coming from reserves makes a Valkyrie/Vendetta counted as having moved its' maximum distance. Now i think that maybe needs a FAQ to have an official rule. I personally think that you can disembark from deepstriking aircraft because the BRB now sais that units coming from reserves can not make Normal move, Advance, Fall back or Remain stationary (disembarking is not mentioned), but they can otherwise act normally. Which i think lets you use Grave-chute ability.

 

An Aircraft coming from reswerves RAW-wise can be placed ANYWHERE more than 9" away from the enemy. You don't need to use a table edge to determine where to place your aicraft. It is a good old deep strike move — anywhere you wat it be.

Edited July 20, 2020 by Shamansky

[duz_]

Seems we can't find a proper conclusion to this thread.

Either we can move it to the OR or wait until the new edition and codex drops to see if there is any more clarity.