First game of 9th

[Gaz1858]

Hi all,

 

Played against a Chaos Army last night in my first game of 9th. It started a bit slow as we got used to the Secondaries to choose and setting up the table with a bit more scenery than we would normally. The below lists are 2000pts using the new 9th Ed points

 

The Chaos Army

 

Creations of Bile Patrol Det

1CP Vigilus Daemonkin Ritualists

 

DP with Wings Warp Bolter, Twin Malefic and Mark of Slaanesh, Delightful agonies power, Helm of all seeing

Fabius Bile and Acolyte

 

5 Man CSM Squad

10 Possessed Icon of Wrath Mark of Khorne

10 Possessed Icon of Excess Mark of Slaanesh

2 Oblits

2 x Rhino Combi Bolter Mark of Slaanesh

 

Thousand Sons Patrol

DP with Wings Twin Malefic, Magister, Cult of Duplicity, Warptime, Deathhex

Terminator Sorceror Prescience, Tzeentchs Firestorm

 

3 x 18 Rubrics with range of powers

 

 

Admech List

 

Mars Patrol

Cawl 1CP WT

Manipulus - Raiment Relic,  1CP Magos WT

 

5 Vanguard

 

4 Kastelan Bots w 2 HPB and an IC each

Icarus Onager

 

Dunerider

 

Mixed Patrol

Lucius TPE Warlord Chorister Technis and +1INV Canticle

Mars TPE 1CP Artisan WT

 

5 Vanguard

 

Stygies 10 Fulgurites

Stygies 9 Fulgurites

 

2 x Mars Belleros Disintegrators

 

Stygies Dunerider

Stygies Termite with Heavy Flamers

 

 

 

It was Mission 1 and he took 1st turn. One of his possessed squads basically flew across the board moving and advancing, moving and advancing again through warp time then charging to kill the Dunerider with 9 Priests in it. Paid a CP to get out 6" away and 0CP to make them all survive (good combo guys!) He also managed to wrap a skorpius with this so it couldnt fall back

 

In addition he had a Tsons squad start 9" away from me and charge the drill. This was also wrapped so the priests inside could not get out. We would spend until turn 3 with the priests unable to get out and me unable to fall back while he failed to wound the Drill with T8. 

 

In my turn I noticed that Fabius was in the centre of the table with only a Rhino in 3" so I used the Icarus onager and a skorpius and possibly a dunerider to kill the Rhino allowing all 4 bots to open up on Fabius as he was the only thing we could see (loads more terrain so firing lanes are difficult) and removed him easily. I then charged my priests into the Possessed which were in combat with my Belleros Skorpius and killed 2 only for them to wipe out the priests! Possessed are nuts. He did another wound or two to the Skorpius and that was that. I charged bots and Onager into the Tsons in combat with the drill hoping to either kill them all or atleast make room for priests to get out. Manipulus failed his 6" charge to help out which woulve made a big difference. End result is 1, maybe 2, Tsoins die as they get a 2+against 1DMG attacks. I had made space for priests to get out but now my bots are in combat, I really needed the Manipulus to get in.

 

 

His turn 2 a Tsons squad teleported to just in fron of me and took a load of wounds off a Skorpius and the second possessed squad charge the bots and Manipulus fighting twice and killing one bot, reducing 1 to one wound and killing the Manipulus. There goes the exploding 6s. I kill 1 or 2 possessed and a couple more Tsons. The Possessed in combat with skorpius couldt get many in combat and actually lost the wrap but took Skorpius down to 4 wounds.

 

In response I used Artisan trait to allow the Skorpius in combat with possessed squad 1 to fall back and shoot, Icarus and 3 remaining bots to do the same. Priests got out of Terrax and headed towards a DP. Drill just stayed in combat as there was only 2 left and I should kill them with 6 attacks as he hadnt managed to reduce it to half wounds. Then the fury of the admech opened up on both the Possessed squads and the Tsons in front of me. Everything died. The Possessed that had charged the bots had 1 model left, the Tsons had 2 of 10 and morale did the rest. My Priests made their 8" charge on the DP and caused 11 wounds to take that down to.

 

At this point its now really hard for the Chaos player to respond. Partly due to both possessed being dead and only 1 model left in combat with the drill from the Tsons unit. I had also chosen good secondaries (Assassinate and Abhor the witch and Attrition). He dropped down his Oblits and killed the Skorpius which had been in combat from the start and brought the second skorpius to 1 wound, whew. Dropped about half the Priests which had been in combat with his priests and teleported the remaining DP onto an objective. He charged the priests with the oblits to and I took 4 wounds off one

 

I responded by falling back the drill just so i could shoot that annoying Tsons guy, fell back from the Oblits and moved everything up. Bots locked down and fired half at the oblits and half at the rhino at the back holding an Obj. Oblits died and Rhino seriously wounded. Remaining Tson died to Icarus onager and Belleros split fire to take 6! wounds off the DP holding an obj and killed the rhino. Big man Belisarius charged into the DP and killed him as he had only 2 wounds remaining.

 

We then just talked through the 2 remaining turns and the game ended 100 pts to Admech and 45 to Chaos.

 

 

Learnings

Lucius Canticle - I made a note of how many rolls the Lucius Canticle helped and how many the Mars Canticle WOULD have helped and Mars came out way on top. Given the number of shots youre firing it makes sense but I really wanted to try 3++ bots lol. Will be going Mars in the future.

 

New Rules - Remember to keep your characters within 3" of your vehicles. If youve read through youll have seen what happened to Fabius. The Belleros is needed due to the amount of terrain as it is much easier to hide units.Coherency is a big thing for these big units. It reduced the effectiveness of the Possessed when wrapping and charging.

 

Secondaries - Ensure you read through and understand these. I picked perfectly for this game which made a huge difference. I am not sold on Action Secondaries.

 

Army - Everything kinda did what it was supposed to. Depending upon the FAQs and whether or not you can take multiple WTs will make a difference to the Detachments I take. The Icarus Onager wasnt as good as the Belleros but it is now 35 points cheaper. If I remove the Lucius TPE then theres the points for that so we will see.

 

CP - I spent a ton of CP pregame (2 for Patrol, 3 for 3 x WT) then spent another 2 in deployment for the Stygies transports. Theres 7 of the 12 done. I then spent another to get the priests out the drill safely and I think that was all before I even got a CP back. So I started turn 1 with 4 or 5 CP and I ended the game with CP left. Make of that what you will. I never used Wrath of Mars once given the targets I was against.

 

So thanks for reading and any questions or comments go ahead

Edited July 15, 2020 by Gaz1858

[Prot]

Thanks Gaz. I agree the action secondaries are ... unattractive to me as well. 
 

great game. I hate how hard the Skorpius got hit with point increases.  Grats on the win.  

[Gaz1858]

Got another game under the belt with the list I am thinking I will take to the next tourney (15th August)

 

Mars Spearhead (yes im that guy)

Cawl Warlord - 9' Aura

TPE - Magos Trait and Raiment Relic

 

9 Fulgurites in Dunerider

10 Fulgurites in Drill with Volkite Chargers

 

4 Dakka Bots

3 x Belleros Skorpius

2 x Onager Icarus and Stubbers

 

The game was against Necrons and as it went he had actually taken a Necron version of this list

 

2 lords (1 with the veil)

1 base of 3 scarabs

3 Doomsday Arks

3 Annihilation Barges

2 FW Tesseract Arks

2 Ghost keels

 

His idea was to use his mobility and firepower to strong arm the opponent and hold objectives.

 

This is a veeeeeerrrrrrryyyyyyyy short batrep

 

I got Turn 1

He got tabled turn 2

 

The end

 

Another 100 point victory for the Admech. This list just blows people away BUT it does need some more playtesting as I need to figure out the best ways to use the Fulgurites as, given they have no shooting, theyre perfect for completing actions. So I need to consider this in my next game as to what Action secondary, if any, I end up using. Raise the banners is an option for turn 1 and then hop in the transports and away you go.

[Clingy]

Lol

 

Admech looking strong

[Colonel Cross]

Gaz, what do you think would have happened had your opponent gone first?

 

Also, that list looks like such a hard counter to that Necron list lol. Feel bad for your opponent.

[Gaz1858]

Well Necrons suffer from their weapons being mainly d6 shots and due to not knowing whether or not youre going first they generally have to move turn 1 which really hampers their damage (going to -2 and d3 from -5 and d6) which can lead to some issues. They would have targeted the bots first due to their fear factor and honestly i would have lost maybe 2 bots, bit of damage across some other tanks but i doubt it would have been worse than that. D6 shots hitting on 3s wounding 3s with then a 3+ save on bots doesnt lead to many wounds. Between 2 Doomsdays youre only talking 7 shots with 5 hits and 3 or 4 wounds that you have a 3 up save against.

 

The tesla, while S7, has no ap so 2+ save negates most wounds caused. They might have lasted to turn 3 if theyd gone first. It is worth noting that my Priests did nothing aggressive the whole game and if he had gone first and moved forward they may have been more involved

 

Admech are a hard counter to Necrons due to lots of high S low damage shots so the Quantum Shielding doesnt really work. They do neuter neutron lasers however which is one reason i dont take neutrons.

[Colonel Cross]

Hey thanks for the response! Appreciate it.

[Prot]

Gaz I often play against Necrons and the issue I have with your opponent's list is it's very... 8th edition feeling. Necrons gain a ton from the new units. I've been feeling that effect since our local Necron players have all over those Indomitus units.

 

Otherwise I have to admit the local Necrons haven't really been able to pose a threat to my Admech at all... unless they go first, and advance + assault the Wraiths. (which some people find a throw away unit, but it still really can cause issues for Admech.)

 

Are you playing with new points? 

 

I'm really, really bummed by the new Skorpius  Disintegrator costs. The Kastelan dakka bots are 25 points cheaper and arguably one of the better units in the 'dex with the new vehicle shooting in CC rules. 

 

I play a lot of people that hate those robots... and they are back to being a very obvious choice again.

[Gaz1858]

Yes 9th ed points

 

The skorpius is expensive. But when you have Cawl and a Magos WT aura the shots really mount up. The belleros ability to shoot outside of los is still a big help.

 

The Kastelans are auto takes, again especially with Cawl and Magos WT. Dont lock them down until youre definte they wont move again or if youre about to get charged by a tough unit. Exploding 6s and Raiment relic should mean 28 hits on overwatch from the bots.

[Prot]

Yea those Dakka Bots are back in the auto-take category.

 

I'm trying a game without them this week. Maybe Ballistarii autocannons will do a decent job? We will see. :)

[Black Knight]

Time to see how easy it is to convert my Dragoons to Ironstriders... Would squads of Ironstriders with their movement be able to get into Los rather than using our Sub?

 

I get a feeling from watching games that Necrons are missing something that they might get in their codex, they seem to get tabled a lot right now.

Edited July 29, 2020 by Black_Knight

[Gaz1858]

Time to see how easy it is to convert my Dragoons to Ironstriders... Would squads of Ironstriders with their movement be able to get into Los rather than using our Sub?

 

I get a feeling from watching games that Necrons are missing something that they might get in their codex, they seem to get tabled a lot right now.

They are very strong units now in a Mars det. Its making sure you use then right though as theyre movement will allow them to get around a lot of scenery for firing angles however this will probably take you out of aura ranges.

 

Theyre definitely a worthwhile unit to add

[Prot]

Yes I agree.  Especially with Mars, but I do find the larger bases do make for handy daisy chaining for Auras. The move and shoot penalty going away is really helpful for these guys. 
 

matines are huge right now and the 2 damage is great. The other thing to consider is they are t dead in the water anymore when someone comes into contact with them. As a side note I have found the extra AP at half range to be very handy for these with Manipulus. 

[MajorNese]

 

Time to see how easy it is to convert my Dragoons to Ironstriders... Would squads of Ironstriders with their movement be able to get into Los rather than using our Sub?

 

I get a feeling from watching games that Necrons are missing something that they might get in their codex, they seem to get tabled a lot right now.

They are very strong units now in a Mars det. Its making sure you use then right though as theyre movement will allow them to get around a lot of scenery for firing angles however this will probably take you out of aura ranges.

 

Theyre definitely a worthwhile unit to add

For Mars it should be a go-to unit. The Mars canticle might be 50% useless now (move and fire heavy weapons), but increasing the strength of heavy weapons by 1 is bonkers for certain units, Ironstriders included. Autocannons going up to S8 will help both against primaris and against any but the most flimsy vehicles. And it's quite reliable to get when taking Carl - replace Electromancer canticle (2) with the new one, and any roll of 1-3 will get that result, since 1 and 3 are useless, and maybe you get Shroudpsalm (4) by rolling a 4-5 or a 3 in addition to a 1-3. This means you get two canticles, with factually reducing the list to Panegyric Procession, Shroudpsalm and rerolling 1s in ranged (bad rolls might make the second one useless, but chance is low), so at least one canticle will be awesome, and in most cases, two of them will be.

Edited July 30, 2020 by MajorNese

[Black Knight]

I remember a year ago moaning about the price of the Ironstrider, oh how things have changed, they look downright cheap now compared to everything new.

[Magos Takatus]

I remember a year ago moaning about the price of the Ironstrider, oh how things have changed, they look downright cheap now compared to everything new.

I was happy having discounted them from my painting to-do list in favour of more Dragoons but now I'm concerned I'll be adding even more models to my to-do list.

[Prot]

I always loved the Dragoon model, but despised putting it together, and I bit the bullet one day and bought/put together 4 Ironstriders.... The day finally came that these things work. ;)

 

But I've only had one game with the Kastelan and I've watched a few batreps on youtube using it... they are still a slower unit to do real work. I think against very aggressive opponents you have to be careful and very mindful of that primary objective.

[Black Knight]

You point it at something like Horus and it deletes it like the Emperor!

 

The bots are as much an area denial weapon than anything else. Even if your target gets out of dodge you stick them in an area and nothing is going to step into LOS. They should really be amazing in 9th with board control becoming the deciding factor for missions. Chasing your opponent is the TRAP!

Edited July 30, 2020 by Black_Knight

[Gaz1858]

Regarding tactics for Bots theres a couple.of ways to use them.

 

1. Find an objective in your deployment. Double shot and away you go.

2. Keep moving forwards. You need to hold more objectives these days and now your bots can walk alongside your transports and fulgurites. Who does the enemy shoot??!! The fulgurites as theyre a cc nightmare or the bots cause theyre kicking your ass AND can shoot in combat

3. A distraction. Dont sit them on an objective. Find the best firing line and go to town. The enemy now has to consider taking you off objectives or taking your bots down. Tough to do both....

 

All comes down to the secondaries you pick amd the mission youre on.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Gaz1858

[Black Knight]

If you can find a spot that overlooks three objectives, plant them. That's a very powerful start as long as they survive. I definitely agree that moving forward slowly is probably going to loose you the game, they are just too slow. Any time the opponent is dodging the LOS of the bots is time they are not capturing/doing things with objectives.

[DeStinyFiSh]

Do you guys think tactical reserve might be a thing for Robos?

[Prot]

Do you guys think tactical reserve might be a thing for Robos?

 

Not really. They need an aura, and any thing extra you need to bring out (IE: Datasmith or whatever) will pay extra CP. I find the Admech are pretty CP intensive, and I never get to farm the points back, so I wouldn't do that.

 

I will say in my 20 or so games of 9th that a very annoying thing has cropped up with quite a few armies: it's actually quite easy on the new table size to block out Deep strike and reserves. I've had games where I couldn't get anything in at all until T3-4.

[MajorNese]

Four arguments against reserving robots - first, with reserves costing more depending on power level, 2 bots already cost 2 CP, 3-4 bots cost 3 CP.

Second - you are missing quite a lot of points until the bots get into play. Less target saturation to spread damage, less firepower.

Third - unless you spend yet another CP to instantly change protocols, it takes one more turn to get into the desired protocol.

 

And let's not forget that your opponent can block the good spots for the bots to emerge - turn 2 deployment is just the flanks, larger bot units have quite a footprint, so a competent opponent can get something to where bots would appear, and you're stuck with walking them up from your own board edge (which is shorter than your deployment zone).

 

The only real argument for reserving them is that they can't be targeted until they appear, but since those guys are the tanky units in our army, it sounds rather unintuitive.

And chances are that they're needed to protect characters from getting targeted - few other units can survive focused firepower as well as they do.

[Black Knight]

For every game I have seen where someone has put a large unit into reserves, they have barely caught up missing that unit for a turn. It isn't like you can drop them in where you want you are still stuck moving them from the deployment on turn two and by turn three, when you have more placement options, the opponent has had such a huge points advantage that they have probably already won.

 

I think reserves is for small squads to capture objectives at the end or cheap hard hitting cc units that can break a castle coming in from the side and would normally not affect the battle till turn three anyway.

Edited July 30, 2020 by Black_Knight

[MajorNese]

I think reserves is for small squads to capture objectives at the end or cheap hard hitting cc units that can break a castle coming in from the side and would normally not affect the battle till turn three anyway.

This.

For example even a full squad of vanguard only costs 1 CP to reserve, is ObSec, can lower toughness on a target unit (think enemy units steamrolling through your backfield), and can be geared up for quite a bit of firepower. And still costs less than a single robot. Or either flavor of Secutarii - better invul, and damn good weaponry for their cost, but need to get close first.

 

I've played reserve heavy armies for several editions - if you reserve the heavy hitters, you gotta have a game plan to keep your remaining army out of harm's way until the big guns show up, and get those into exactly the right spot to make the most use of it. Standard strategic reserve is not very flexible in its deployment compared to regular deep strike, so it does require even more of a plan.