Have Helldrakes been big time nerfed?

[Grimdark_Garage]

Helldrakes weren't particularly competitive in 8th but certainly fun to use and had some effectiveness.

 

As they're not aircraft and with the change to FLY, they're stuck in a weird place.

 

They're a combat flyer who can't fly into and out of combat...

 

Unless I'm missing something?

[Doom Herald]

They can't go into combat with aircraft, that is unless the talk of a second wave of FAQs right after the release of 9th are true (I doubt it though). Maybe the next Codex will change things with a special rule. With the exception of flyers they actually got a buff, rules wise but I haven't checked points, since they can shoot in melee now.

[Grimdark_Garage]

I totally forgot about shooting while in combat. Ignore me, I'm all good

[The Yncarne]

Since they aren't aircraft, can't they be warp time'd on turn one to engage the enemy?

[Doom Herald]

Since they aren't aircraft, can't they be warp time'd on turn one to engage the enemy?

Pretty sure.

[MegaVolt87]

I would prefer to see our hell turkey be able to attack other aircraft and get bonuses doing it for AA duty. We don't really have anything dedicated AA wise in the CSM dex for AA. Plus good AA via mele would make sense as a lower tech version of AA, FW stuff for AA is our good stuff/ improved stuff (FW AA in general needs re-vamps IMO). I just want valid counters to aircraft, I left 6-7th ed because of the flyer/ aircraft bias. 

[Cheex]

I actually think they got big time buffed in 9th. Being able to shoot into combat is significant, but tarpitting in 9th is going to be crucial. Between FLY fall-back getting nerfed and Overwatch being so heavily limited, Heldrakes are going to have some very important roles in CSM armies IMHO.

 

You could use one as a T1 harrassment unit, forcing enemies to fall back and not be effective at shooting. Or you could hold it back and use it to back up your melee units on T2-3, charging in to absorb overwatch.

 

Since they aren't aircraft, can't they be warp time'd on turn one to engage the enemy?

 

Yeah, but with a 30" move they don't really need it, and it may be difficult getting a Sorcerer to keep up with it.

[The Yncarne]

 

 

Since they aren't aircraft, can't they be warp time'd on turn one to engage the enemy?

 

Yeah, but with a 30" move they don't really need it, and it may be difficult getting a Sorcerer to keep up with it.

 

Since I play 'Sons, I only need it to work once. Yes, I'd like to have proper anti-aircraft, but I realize the Heldrake isn't it and it is more likely to play a board control or anti-charge unit for me most of the time.

[Khornestar]

Inability to fall back and shoot balanced out with flaming in combat and the hades autocannon hitting on 4+ are of interest to me, though neither are huge.

 

Don’t think I’d use the hades even still, but it’s an option. Roasting in combat seems good, but any at risk infantry/target could just fall back in their own turn and not stay locked with the drake to willingly endure that. If on top of an objective, maybe they’d consider it, but if it were me I’d fall back, shoot the relatively fragile drake to death, and go from there. However, that essentially forces them off the objective during their movement phase, and requires an additional 2 turns to control it: one to move, and another to cap the points at the start of their command phase. If they’re ObSec troops they’ll probably try to stay on or fall back in such a way that they’re still controlling it, though. Or have another unit there.

 

Really trying to make a case for the drake, but also being realistic.

 

The drake isn’t a flyer so it should be able to capture objectives, which is probably its greatest strength, due to its high movement stat. Still, only 1 model.

 

I definitely regret selling my 2 drakes in 8th, but not super sad about it either.

Edited July 18, 2020 by Juggernut

[Brother Crimson]

The drake isn’t a flyer so it should be able to capture objectives, which is probably its greatest strength, due to its high movement stat. Still, only 1 model. .

So heldrake is a flyer but it’s not an aircraft (Sorry getting technical here) so it can cap objectives.

 

I can’t tell how much I love it being non-aircraft, heldrake always were good harassment units but the fact they couldn’t cap objective was a problem. Now that they can it forces the opponent to put a bit more into objective holding because a heldrake with demon forge can clear some small squads easily.

[Khornestar]

Yeah, clearly just a case of using the wrong terminology.

[Prot]

Helldrakes weren't particularly competitive in 8th but certainly fun to use and had some effectiveness.

 

As they're not aircraft and with the change to FLY, they're stuck in a weird place.

 

They're a combat flyer who can't fly into and out of combat...

 

Unless I'm missing something?

 

It's interesting you consider them nerfed, and I found them to be one of the best changes I've experienced so far in 9th.

 

I have had them make turn 1 assaults in multiple 9th edition games, and because they aren't an aircraft, they count for more secondaries.

 

On top of that, I found a lot of times I'm tanking an opponent's stronger tank in T1 by getting him into assault. At T7, and an invuln, I've had him tank some nasty stuff. Against Tau the army has a lot of fly so you're hitting on 2's. Then flaming into close combat on your turn.

 

I have had a very different experience with them, maybe I'm just getting lucky, but so far I'd have to strongly disagree with the sentiment that Heldrakes have been nerfed.

[techsoldaten]

Only reason I can think of to use them is first turn charges. They're too expensive for what they can do.

 

If that's important to your army, think about it.

[Prot]

Only reason I can think of to use them is first turn charges. They're too expensive for what they can do.

 

If that's important to your army, think about it.

 

I think they're better than that.

 

In my games of 9th with them:

 

- First turn charge tanks.

- Grab a quarter (I believe they count for quarters in secondaries)

- delete an opponent's lazy unit engaged in an action

- Contest a distant objective that opponent thought they'd score easily on their half of the table.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying they are amazing, but looking at the laundry list of junk that Chaos is strapped with for 9th, this ain't one of them.