Thoughts on 9th?

[Frostglaive]

So... we have the Core Rules. I'd say a fair amount of us know by now the rest of the rules in the upcoming rulebook, thanks to leaks and various batreps. We have our supposed point changes via leaks. We have our FAQs. Other than an updated codex, I'd say we have just about everything we need to play our AdMech forces in 9th edition.

 

So, what do we think about them so far? For those of us here who've actually managed to get games in, how have they fared for you with the new rules? What seems to be the general consensus for AdMech in 9th?

[Tyr13]

Well. Seeing as I play Agripinaa, Im kinda SOL with the reduction in Overwatch. Id hoped the FAQ would change it, but I guess Ill have to design my own FW now... -_-

[Madao]

Nerf to the Neutron Onager and Disintegrator - they lost the unique ability to shoot heavy weapons after move - now every vehicle/monster can do it. NL and BEC are now blast weapons, so they still can't shoot in meele and (IMO) blast won't be very useful with them - I don't think, that with changes to the morale/coherencu/blasts anyone will be using units of 6+ with elite/heavy choices, which are the main target to those guns. Additionally, smaller table size means, that their range won't be that useful. And all of it comes with high point cost increase... I hoped, that at least firing after move would be FAQed to something else.

Edited July 17, 2020 by Madao

[GrinNfool]

Got some pretty big points hikes on a few things though so did everyone else, hard to say at the moment.  Onagers specifically seem worse with a 23 point hike on neutron, icarus more expensive too but its only 15 points more expensive.  The biggest problem to me though is the heavy stubbers costing 5 points, we have several vehicles thats brutal on.  Duneriders get a 20 points for 12 s4 shots tacked on, not great for the bomber or dis either.  Neutron got a further 5 points tacked on because of that (factored into the increase above).  Just don't see a heavy stubber being worth 5 points when a storm bolter is costed at 3.  Some good stuff too of course, shooting in combat makes kastellans and ballistarii much better.  Otherwise we will see I guess the PA changes are still in play and those were pretty good for us, 

 

We are in better shape than some armies (dark eldar got smashed pretty bad for example).  But I think we got roughed up more than others that came out relatively unscathed as most of their changes were right in line % wise, like marines, or just armies that come out looking improved, like custodes.  So lower middle is where I would put us based on points, but once it gets out there and played more who knows we could go up a lot, or a  end up in a mediocre place just depending how the meta shakes out.  Don't think we will be on the low end though regardless.

[brother_b]

We'll see how stuff plays out but every faction got a points hike.. It’s not like we’re still in 8th playing against armies that haven’t felt a points increase.

 

I am bummed we lost our unique ability to move and shoot without penalty. That’s what made our faction different. No grinding advance for us either, so other heavy vehicles that can move and shoot with grinding advance really got a boost.

 

I’m thinking I’ll go heavy on robots with an onager or two and at least one skorpius for indirect fire. I’ll probably run lots of vanguard and a unit of breachers.

[BolterZorro]

I've read that the  ironstrider balistarii  is now close to be our MVP. This thing is fast, (relatively) cheap, can shoot while in CC, shoot superbly , can be plaid in unit up to 6 and can be buffed nicely.

[ValourousHeart]

Well. Seeing as I play Agripinaa, Im kinda SOL with the reduction in Overwatch. Id hoped the FAQ would change it, but I guess Ill have to design my own FW now...

 

I wouldn't worry to much about overwatch.  We know that most if not all of the battle reports have been played without the actual book in hand.  We know that because why would those channels post the battle reports a week before the unboxing video, if they have had the rule book the entire time.  If they were given an advanced copy they would have been prohibited from showing the contents of the book on screen, but having it, reading it and playing a game with the actual rules at hand would have been perfectly acceptable.

 

One of the terrain features is called defensible.  It grants units overwatch or fighting better in assault.  The battle reports are all interpreting that as the unit in that terrain gets to be the one and only unit that gets to use the stratagem to fire overwatch.  Why word defensible that you get a choice if you don't actually get a choice?  So 2 units in the same piece of defensible terrain can both choose to fight better, but only one can choose to shoot overwatch?  Seems like a really useless waste of a terrain rule if all it does is allow you to use a stratagem you were already allowed to use.

 

You do get a choice.  Units in Defensible terrain get to fire overwatch or fight better in assault, that is the benefit of being in that terrain.  And then one unit not in Defensible terrain gets to fire overwatch with the strat.  If you play the campaign mode you can give certain units the innate ability to overwatch.  And finally certain codexes like Tau will get overwatch.  Tau specifically have it as an army special rule.  But other units as their codexes come out will also likely get it as well.

 

So overwatch won't be as prevalent as it was in 8th, but you'll still be able to build a force around it, with the inclusion of fortifications and other terrain pieces.

[DeStinyFiSh]

Defensible does not allow to fire overwatch, but IF a unit fires overwatch it will hit on 5+ instead of 6+.

This makes Agripinaa even worse since every infantry unit is able to copy the Dogma this way.

[Gaz1858]

ValorousHeart - The Defensible wording is "Hold Steady - Overwatch attacks hit on 5+". Thats all. So if you choose to overwatch using whatever method you like (currently pay a CP or play Tau) then you will hit on 5s whilst benefitting from this rule instead of 6s. At no point does it say you can fire overwatch outside of any normal way.

 

Just because CP is currently the only way most armies get to overwatch doesnt mean that will always be the case. New units and codexs could change that, which could make defensible more use for 5s in Overwatch.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Gaz1858

[BolterZorro]

It seems that breachers and balistarii are good in v9 (for now ;-) ). I'd like to add those units in my admech pool. But how many should I buy?

 

For breachers:

What is the minimum interesting size unit ?

What is the minimum OPTIMUM size unit ?

 

for balistarii :

What is the minimum interesting size unit ?

What is the minimum OPTIMUM size unit ?

[ValourousHeart]

Defensible does not allow to fire overwatch, but IF a unit fires overwatch it will hit on 5+ instead of 6+.

This makes Agripinaa even worse since every infantry unit is able to copy the Dogma this way.

 

ValorousHeart - The Defensible wording is "Hold Steady - Overwatch attacks hit on 5+". Thats all. So if you choose to overwatch using whatever method you like (currently pay a CP or play Tau) then you will hit on 5s whilst benefitting from this rule instead of 6s. At no point does it say you can fire overwatch outside of any normal way.

 

Just because CP is currently the only way most armies get to overwatch doesnt mean that will always be the case. New units and codexs could change that, which could make defensible more use for 5s in Overwatch.

 

Do either of you have the book yet?  Mine comes in on Saturday.  Not being argumentative, it was just the main point of my post that people are making claims about rules without actually having the book.  If you do have it, would you post that page?

[DeStinyFiSh]

I have the leaks, but page number has been cut off. However, it is the first of the Terrain Traits. I am pretty sure RAR it improves the overwatch if fired instead of allowing everyone to do so.

[Gaz1858]

The rules, points and tournament rules have been available for some time now, you mustve seen them?

 

But as you asked its page 262

Edited July 21, 2020 by Gaz1858

[ValourousHeart]

Every rule example shown so far has the full text of the rule and a bullet box below it with the highlights.

The bullet box highlights are a good reminder of the rule.

But they are not a substitute for actually reading the rule.

 

I've only found the bullet box for Defensible, but not the full wording of the text.

[Gaz1858]

Once you get the rulebook go to that page then and it will explain it all.