9th Edition and Legends

[Tyr13]

So. Ive just had a thought. When Legends became a thing, GW said they wouldnt be rebalancing Legends models at any point. Theyd stay the same.

So far, so annoying.

 

But now theyve significantly increased points across the board, leaving Legends comparatively cheaper than they were. Which made me wonder how that will affect Legends. My gut feeling is that Legends will be even more shunned, with a similar stigma as the forgeworld models of yore. Which will make it a lot easier for GW to quietly pull the plug way sooner than everyone would have hoped...

 

Thoughts?

[Lexington]

Legit thought, though I'm, like, 80% sure that 9th Ed will see the same slide towards lower and lower average points-per-model that 8th had once the Codexes start hitting, so it might not be a concern before long.

 

Also not really sure what "pulling the plug" means besides not hosting some PDFs, so I don't think they'd go away particularly.

[Charlo]

Pretty much.

 

If you take AoS as an example, it has taken 5 full years for Brettonian and Tomb King armies to be moved from "still in the game but we won't update the points", to "yeah okay these are no longer matched play legal without opponents permission."

 

With that said my finger in the air volcanic-hot take would be legends for 9th ed. 10th ed they'll be gone or just remain in the same pdf.

[Captain_Krash]

Legit thought, though I'm, like, 80% sure that 9th Ed will see the same slide towards lower and lower average points-per-model that 8th had once the Codexes start hitting, so it might not be a concern before long.

 

Also not really sure what "pulling the plug" means besides not hosting some PDFs, so I don't think they'd go away particularly.

Due to the board size shrinkage boards are overly crowded as is right now...if they lower points the game will be terrible. GW sort of backed themselves into a corner in regards to making the boards smaller.  40k is a large scale miniature game trying to be a skirmish game right now.

 

Krash

Edited July 17, 2020 by Captain_Krash

[Bryan Blaire]

You mean 40K is a skirmish game trying to be a large scale game, trying to go back to being a skirmish game, right? Apocalypse and Epic were the large scale games, 40K always occupied that weird semi-skirmish/semi-large scale area for a long, long time.

[Interrogator Stobz]

I selfishly hope the 9th Ed codexes Legend all the non Primaris stuff.

So I can retire with all my stuff in one book/pdf. without feeling like I gave up (so much).

 

They just need to stop mucking around (for my sake). It won't happen of course until they've sold all the old stock, many older units have good points values now so they're looking more sellable as efficient options atm. Maybe 10th will see it happen fully.

The push would be nice since I am too much of an addict to voluntary jump.

[Leonaides]

So. Ive just had a thought. When Legends became a thing, GW said they wouldnt be rebalancing Legends models at any point. Theyd stay the same.

So far, so annoying.

 

But now theyve significantly increased points across the board, leaving Legends comparatively cheaper than they were. Which made me wonder how that will affect Legends. My gut feeling is that Legends will be even more shunned, with a similar stigma as the forgeworld models of yore. Which will make it a lot easier for GW to quietly pull the plug way sooner than everyone would have hoped...

 

Thoughts?

I think they said that they would only get refreshed points for new editions, so that they were still technically usable. Otherwise if they introduced a new stat or refreshed movement rates etc all legends would instantly become unplayable.

[ThePenitentOne]

Yeah, if I could ebay a metal Kyrinov and Jacobus, I'd do it just for the collection. I love the Kyrinov model, though he's got a fair amount in common with Taddeus. I've never really liked the Jacobus model, but he is historically significant.

 

I'm not sure I have or want anything else in the Legends category.

[chapter master 454]

-looks as his command tanks- seriously...can we get these boys moved to the main codex? Or even updated rules in an article please...

[Noserenda]

Given the claims that the new points values are formulaic it wouldnt surprise me to see a pass over the Legends stuff too, possibly alongside adding some stuff over like the FW stuff that will inevitably be added with their new indices. 

I suspect we shall see at least one Primaris marines codex before the old marines get sent to legends or FW historical (however that ends up) and we are still a few years away from that.

[WrathOfTheLion]

Given the claims that the new points values are formulaic it wouldnt surprise me to see a pass over the Legends stuff too, possibly alongside adding some stuff over like the FW stuff that will inevitably be added with their new indices.

 

I suspect we shall see at least one Primaris marines codex before the old marines get sent to legends or FW historical (however that ends up) and we are still a few years away from that.

I agree. Even if they don't keep all of the characters, they are editions away from getting even getting the basic ones ported over at the rate they are going.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

Supposedly a lot more units are going there when the rule book goes public .

[Slave to Darkness]

I selfishly hope the 9th Ed codexes Legend all the non Primaris stuff.

 

 

 

Well if they do that then myself and many other people will probably end up quitting, I only play OG marines and always will. 

[Panzer]

 

I selfishly hope the 9th Ed codexes Legend all the non Primaris stuff.

 

 

 

Well if they do that then myself and many other people will probably end up quitting, I only play OG marines and always will. 

 

 

Let's be honest here, eventually they will. You know it, I know it. If you are really serious about it then I guess that means good bye.

[Bryan Blaire]

It'd be a lot better if they simply moved the classic Astartes line to something like a HH/Scouring – 40K ruleset that is managed by Specialist Games.

[Slave to Darkness]

 

 

I selfishly hope the 9th Ed codexes Legend all the non Primaris stuff.

 

 

 

Well if they do that then myself and many other people will probably end up quitting, I only play OG marines and always will. 

 

 

Let's be honest here, eventually they will. You know it, I know it. If you are really serious about it then I guess that means good bye.

 

Theres still plenty of other stuff I want to do. Not done Orks since 2nd ed, wouldnt mind a bash at a Blood Axe / Freebooter army. Wouldnt mind a Genestealer Cult army as well, loved using them back in the olden days. Then theres my multiple Chaos things I have on the go, and Imperial Guard, Eldar need expanding as well... I can still get  by without Primaris... and I can always crush them on the battlefield... :D 

 

As someone else mentioned above, putting them in a Heresy/Scourging kinda rules set would be IMHO perfect. 

 

Dont get me wrong, Im not poo pooing on Primaris players, I hope they bring you as much joy as the OG marines have me, and the new sword and board dudes do look great, chuffed for Templar players now they get assault options too, they just dont interest me. 

[Doghouse]

It'd be a lot better if they simply moved the classic Astartes line to something like a HH/Scouring – 40K ruleset that is managed by Specialist Games.

Maybe Forge World could pick up Pre-Indomitus wargaming.

[WrathOfTheLion]

If they do Scouring, War of the Beast, something else, etc., then all they need is the core line. Any kind of Warhammer historic won't really use any of the existing characters that are getting converted to primaris.

They could easily release a couple character miniatures on FW or on GW and run a couple of publications for various M31-M40 campaigns and explore some of the setting there that they haven't really done as well.

For 9E legends in particular though, I don't think much will go to legends unless it is out of production. Most of it will be from the FW index range I think.

[Interrogator Stobz]

 

 

 

 

I selfishly hope the 9th Ed codexes Legend all the non Primaris stuff.

 

 

 

Well if they do that then myself and many other people will probably end up quitting, I only play OG marines and always will.

Let's be honest here, eventually they will. You know it, I know it. If you are really serious about it then I guess that means good bye.

I agree, it does mean good bye for those of us that feel the same.

I've been functionaly out for most of 8th due to the wait for an unknown outcome.

 

We know that our beloved Classic Astartes are marking time, but it's the not knowing what form they will be relegated to has destroyed my motivation and enthusiasm.

That is why I selfishly want an outcome as soon as possible, preferably but unrealistically in the upcoming dex.

[BLACK BLΠFLY]

I hope they are still around for ninth but now I’m really wondering.

[Wulf Vengis]

Nevermind. Edited July 27, 2020 by Wulf Vengis

[WrathOfTheLion]

I hope they are still around for ninth but now I’m really wondering.

Classic astartes line is in the ToC of the codex shown, so I would assume they're in.

[Sothalor]

It'd be a lot better if they simply moved the classic Astartes line to something like a HH/Scouring – 40K ruleset that is managed by Specialist Games.

 

With the way Forgeworld has been outputting "content" for the HH, that's about the same treatment as Legends.

[Wulf Vengis]

 

Let's be honest here, eventually they will. You know it, I know it. If you are really serious about it then I guess that means good bye.

I agree, it does mean good bye for those of us that feel the same.

I've been functionaly out for most of 8th due to the wait for an unknown outcome.

 

We know that our beloved Classic Astartes are marking time, but it's the not knowing what form they will be relegated to has destroyed my motivation and enthusiasm.

That is why I selfishly want an outcome as soon as possible, preferably but unrealistically in the upcoming dex.

 

^This.^

 

They could have just released the primaris as a correctly scaled marine and said to replace our old ones at our own pace (how they handled the newly scaled tda in 5th). This would have reduced or possibly completely removed any feelings of invalidation.

 

Many people argue that they've changed models or editions before, but the base fact is that in those previous edition changes and even to some extent model updates, the old models/units were never truly invalidated (there have been some admittedly over the years but not on this scale). By relegating these things to the legends book GW is officially making them illegal for play in current/future rules editions.

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong i want to be in on the Primaris, i want to have properly scaled marines. But i also don't to give up the flavor of my Wolves. I don't want the units that drew me into the game in the first place, the very thing that has acquired my love and fascination, to die.

 

Making the primaris as new units and then slowly piece by piece invalidating and illegal-izing those things that made the other chapters unique, with no appropriate replacement is torturous to those of us who play a faction out of love and not because it's the new hotness.

 

Intercessors/Aggressors/etc are not tacticals/grey Hunters/death company/black knights/etc. They don't get the rules those unique units get, they don't get the same wargear distribution layout just with the new bolt weapons instead of the old. They are in fact two entirely different things.

 

Would it be so bad/hard if GW just said "eventually you'll have your primaris blood claws/etc" just so we know that our factions are safe?

[Captain Idaho]

I'm invested in my old Classic Marines. If they go the way of Legends then I'm out. I'm not buying them all again.

 

This is the sad truth, based on economics and time. No biased against a new model line; I'm glad folk can enjoy it.