Save me from myself...Reivers

[Riddlesworth]

So, I'm tweaking my army for 9th. Primaris only. Successor tactics using whirlwind of rage.

 

And......reivers are starting to look pretty attractive in my pure infantry force.

 

So far I have:

- the objective holding force: 2 units of eliminators, 3 units of incursors, 2 units of intercessors

- the turn 2 wave: 6 deep striking inceptors, 5 encircled aggressors, 3 encircled eradicators

- the Flankers: 6 outriders, biker chaplain (who, if hes as expected, will be father pain when needed or popping to hit and to wiund auras for combat units).

 

Got probably 220 points left over. 10 reivers with grav chutes being a turn 3 wave, with gene wrought might, the chaplain dishing out those reroll auras if hes still alive

 

But reivers have been bad pretty much since day 1. Do I suck up the CP to get some extra force org slots for eradicators/plasma inceptors?

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Wait to see if the new buggy is anygood.  Reivers are terrible and are worse than just about anything else.  Maybe a new codex will save them?

[Lemondish]

Most folks will suggest anything but Reivers. I'm probably in that camp as well. After all, your selection of alternative unit choices are massive damage dealers. Comparing them to Reivers is a mistake.

 

Reivers are a pretty cheap way of getting 10 T4 3+ wounds pretty much where you need them. They're outclassed on killing power by nearly everyone, and their special rules aren't that valuable in 9th compared to their dubious value in 8th...but if you want to run them, then use them as bodies, not killing tools.

[Lukoi]

The challenge with Encircled reserves is that they must come "wholly within 6"" of a battle board edge, and competent opponents will note that.  Heck, you can't even bring them in to buttress your midfield package really, unfortunately.  I've been perusing the GT maps, and while that will allow you to be within charge range of alot of the OBJ's, it also means the enemy can screen against it and negate extremely easily.    Just something to consider.  Obviously the native deepstriking inceptors are good.

 

Are the eliminators fusilier AT types? Otherwise, to be honest I think I'd swap one of those out for a second eradicator.  You could probably use the difference on an ITWS, which isn't necessarily going to be the immediate target priority for an opponent given the eradicators, the need to counter your copious board control, and the effect of your fast moving bikes.  They have to do something about your ability to saturate the objectives quickly imo, and fixating on the ITWS (or a Relic Contemptor Dread alternatively, allowing you to drop the 2nd eradicator, and keep the second eliminator for example) becomes counter productive.

 

Just a thought.  

[Riddlesworth]

The challenge with Encircled reserves is that they must come "wholly within 6"" of a battle board edge, and competent opponents will note that.  Heck, you can't even bring them in to buttress your midfield package really, unfortunately.  I've been perusing the GT maps, and while that will allow you to be within charge range of alot of the OBJ's, it also means the enemy can screen against it and negate extremely easily.    Just something to consider.  Obviously the native deepstriking inceptors are good.

 

Looking for the incursors, intercessors and outriders to hit general screens but yes, the prevalence of tactics and strategic reserves is going to mean i see this a fair bit I think. It's also why while I love the bladeguard models, I cant see using them that much unless I run impulsors. Aggressors can start on the board as an 8 inch move+advance has them threatening midfield well enough turn 2. Its not surviving long enough to do that which has been a problem in non-ravemguard/transport armies.

 

Are the eliminators fusilier AT types? Otherwise, to be honest I think I'd swap one of those out for a second eradicator.  You could probably use the difference on an ITWS, which isn't necessarily going to be the immediate target priority for an opponent given the eradicators, the need to counter your copious board control, and the effect of your fast moving bikes.  They have to do something about your ability to saturate the objectives quickly imo, and fixating on the ITWS (or a Relic Contemptor Dread alternatively, allowing you to drop the 2nd eradicator, and keep the second eliminator for example) becomes counter productive.

 

Just a thought.

 

Regular ol' bolt sniper rifles. That's been the hardest choice in the list so far - which direction the 2/1 split in heavy support goes.

 

Good shout on the invictor. I ran them in my ravenguard, which had a similar core. I wish they didn't have incendium cannons now they can move and fire without penalty but still...their point hike was well deserved

 

Appreciate the input.

[Lukoi]

Don't get Reivers because of their stats, or tactical use. Get Reivers because skulls and biiig frakkin' knives!

 

Can confirm, awesome reason to get them.

 

I bought a set, stole the heads for my intercessors....and then ordered some 3rd party similar helmets for the same reason.  Solid look.

[SanguinaryGuardsman]

Most folks will suggest anything but Reivers. I'm probably in that camp as well. After all, your selection of alternative unit choices are massive damage dealers. Comparing them to Reivers is a mistake.

 

Reivers are a pretty cheap way of getting 10 T4 3+ wounds pretty much where you need them. They're outclassed on killing power by nearly everyone, and their special rules aren't that valuable in 9th compared to their dubious value in 8th...but if you want to run them, then use them as bodies, not killing tools.

At 9.5 points per wound... that might actually work.  Although that price point probably means that reivers will not be getting a rules bump.  Why does GW hate this unit so much?  

 

It doesn't take much brain power to make them good.  

 

Some ideas...

 

Stratagem support:  Give the a stratagem that plays off of their LD debuff.  Something like +1 to wound vs targets with less LD than they have.  

 

Better weapons:  Their combat blades are the size of a guardsman... maybe +1 str or better AP?  Maybe even flat 2 dmg ?

 

Better special rules:  Scout deployment.

 

Any of these improvement would be enough for some armies to include them.  

[TheNewman]

The sad fact is that A) Reivers really need to be able to put a real melee weapon on their Sergeant, B] they should really get their Carbine, Heavy Pistol, and Combat Knife all at once, and C) it would help a lot if their optional rules on the Grav Shute and Grapnels were rolled into a single piece of equipment.

 

They're a unit that is frustratingly close to being good for the points, they have all the pieces but they can't use them all at once.

 

On what to put in your actual force, unless I'm missing something what you have won't fit in a Patrol but you're short an HQ for a Battalion. Whatever HQ you pick you're going to probably be down under 120 remaining. Seeing that you're aiming at a pure-primaris, pure-infantry force and you've used up all the Heavy Support and Fast Attack slots you don't exactly have a lot of options left.

Edited July 19, 2020 by TheNewman

[Prot]

You know if there was -any- elite unit that should have went down this game... it was Reivers. The Elite category is so hotly contested, these guys aren't even on the radar.

 

And for the record, I'm in the camp that thinks they look cool. Even GW knows they are a dud... they are in so many 'combo discount' boxes.... I have 3 squads, and I've only bought a few of them.

[Lemondish]

The more I think about Reivers, the more I think they may be a bit of a sleeper hit.

 

Could be a fantastic unit to deep strike cheaply to perform an action. If you aren't expecting them to contribute tons of damage (they won't), then it's easier to forego their offense and use them to do anything else. They seem like a very cheap yet resilient unit able to drop in where you want, perform an action, and then net you VP.

Edited July 21, 2020 by Lemondish

[Prot]

Honestly, I used to think that way, but that was in 8th where I had the ability to take more Elite slots without penalty. But now? If I have to choose between Eradicators, Aggressors, Warsuits, Dreads, Contemptors... that's such a crowded spot now. 

 

As mentioned I actually like the models and I'd love to have a real reason to use them.

[Lemondish]

Honestly, I used to think that way, but that was in 8th where I had the ability to take more Elite slots without penalty. But now? If I have to choose between Eradicators, Aggressors, Warsuits, Dreads, Contemptors... that's such a crowded spot now.

 

As mentioned I actually like the models and I'd love to have a real reason to use them.

Wait, Eradicators are Elite? That's such a bummer!

[Lukoi]

Eradicators are HS, taking one of the 3 slots you have there ina BN. You are allowed 6 elites in a BN.

[Prot]

Eradicators are HS, taking one of the 3 slots you have there ina BN. You are allowed 6 elites in a BN.

 

Oh nice. Good... I just freed up an Elite slot! lol