Looking for Value: 9th ed. Undercosted Guard Units

[Diagramdude]

I enjoy searching for value when a big points change is revealed. I thought I'd start a post about finding any undercosted units that may be auto-includes or have great value.

 

My first pass:

 

Armored Sentinels: 50 points for lascannon/missile launcher, 45 for heavy flamer, 35 for multilaser. I think Tallarn Armored Sentinels will be great since they can advance and shoot. They'll move 9-15" a turn, don't degrade and can fire in combat. And if they can stay in dense cover they will be T6 with a -1 to hit and a 2+ save. Multilaser sentinels are nice and cheap but I think adding the Lascannon or Missile Launcher for an extra 15 points may draw fire away from more valuable tanks. 

 

Bullgryn: 387 pts for 9 Bullgyrn. Only went up 1 point per model since the model went up 3 but the maul went down 2. They get hit hard by the change to how saves are taken, but they should still be formidably tough with psychic barrier and/or dense cover.  

Ogryn Bodyguard: Only went up 3 points when including the maul's 2 point drop. He has a more important role now since characters will be vulnerable if the screens around them drop below 3 models. 

 

Tank Commander: 193 points for hull lascannon and demolisher or battle cannon, 188 for executioner. I think sponsons are too expensive now to take, pushing one hull over 220 points. Sponson plasma cannons at 40 points are probably a hard pass considering you could buy 8 BS4+ plasma or melta guns for the same price.

 

Special Weapon Squad: 45 points for 3 melta/plasma. BS4+ meltaguns at 5 points are ludicrously undercosted for guard considering how many we can field. Battalions have 6 elite slots, Brigades have 8. It may be worth spamming three of these squads for 135 points if you have some transports. Infantry squads should also be bringing a meltagun special for 55 points total. A brigade with 6 infantry squads and 3 special weapon squads could pack 15 meltas for only 75 extra points. 

 

Valkyries: 120 points for rocket pods and multilaser, 130 points for lascannon and hellstrike missile. No move penalty on vehicles means the anti-tank Valkyrie is now hitting on 3's when hovering, and the two rocket pods are blast weapons. Including the multilaser, the dakka variant will now have a minimum 9 shots against units of 6+ and 15 against 11+. They can also embark units and then fly off the board, keeping all of them safe to deep strike in the next turn. Based on the IA faq ruling on Elysians disembarking from a deep striking Valkyrie, it seems like passengers can disembark after the Valkyrie returns from ongoing reserves.

 

Heavy Flamer Chimera with Track Guards: 105 points for two heavy flamers and track guards. Track guards for 5 points seems like an auto-include now on flame vehicles. Running these as Tallarn is great since they can advance and still fire the flamers, and with track guards they effectively do not degrade. Also the Tallarn passengers could advance after disembarking and fire their lasguns and special weapons without penalty. Catachan rerolls are also great. Also, flamer chimeras will be happier to charge into melee to tie up enemy units since they can now fire their flamers in combat if the enemy sticks around. FLY no longer lets you fall back and shoot, so falling back in 9th is more costly for a lot of units.  

 

Autocannon Heavy Weapon Teams: 51 points. Only went up 3 points for a squad of 3 since the infantry autocannon stayed at 10 points. The strength 7 is mitigated by the stratagem for +1 to hit and wound, and the bonus to hit goes well with the 6 shots. 

 

Astropath: 25 points. The Astropath did go up 67% but is still probably the go-to psyker since the Primaris Psyker is now 50 points. The Astropath allows friendly units within 6" to ignore cover for an enemy unit within 18" which will be very important in 9th. Plan on bringing at least one, maybe two for psychic barrier and nightshroud.

 

I'd be delighted to hear what guard units you guys think are going to be efficient in 9th! We need all the help we can get now that Vigilus has abandoned us.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[domsto]

I am not sure about the Meltergun.

Even now Plasma seem to be the better choice.

Yes the Damage against T8 3+ is a little bit better with 0,875(1,125 if in half Range) compared to 0,8333 of the Plasma on a 4+ base.

But the Plasma performce better against 2 Wound Models like Primaris and even against single Wound models simply because double the Shots.

 

Seeing how overcosted some of our Vehicals are now i am also of the Oppinon that flooding the Table with Guardsmen Armd with Special Weapons is the new/old Way to Victory.

[sairence]

I do like the Meltagun as an option now. It's a small investment that can potentially cause big damage. If it doesn't you didn't lose much. I would consider 2 squads in a Chimera or Valkyrie...no orders, just run them near something big and fire. Some of them are likely to go through. Plasma is more reliable, but you want the option to reroll 1s with that, which usually means an officer nearby, which is then an increased investment.

 

On the track guards, yes they are cheap, but not sure if they are all that necessary. I rarely got much use out of them in 8th, because usually my vehicle died pretty soon after being shot and in 9th we have smaller tables. So I'd keep them in mind, but only for very specific purposes.

 

Heavy weapon teams with mortars or ACs are a good about...if you want to go for those brigades they're a good call.

 

In the same vein I think Scions with special weapons are in a good place. With Melta costing the same as Plasma and Volleyguns dropping to 5p, we might actually get away from the standard "plasma-on-everything" approach.

[GuardDaddy]

regarding sentinel points - I don't think that's how cover works. Only infantry/beasts/swarms get cover benefits when in it, and whilst dense cover is -1 to hit, Technically it has to be classed as light cover too in order to get +1 to save (really worth checking all cover types before starting each game).

 

Don't want to thread-jack to I'll start a thread on cover based on Goonhammer who have a great article on it.

[HallofStovokor]

Regarding special weapons squads, blast really hurts them. They're the minimum size required to activate the automatic 3 shots from blast weapons. They're probably the worst unit size we have and even 1 casualty will trigger a morale test. At least infantry squads have better leadership and can take more damage before they lose combat effectiveness.

 

Another problem with them, is that you're spending points on infantry without objective secured. This is one of the chief problems with veterans too. Not being a troop, hurts them.

Edited July 20, 2020 by HallofStovokor

[zero88]

I was a fan of the poor man's Hellhound before (Flamer/Track Guard Chimera), and now that they aren't hurt by being tagged they are even more appealing. Tallarn advance and firing isn't nearly as useful as gunnery experts/catachan, the 20" threat range is usually going to be plenty, and in the first turn you're usually popping smoke or firing a barrage of HK missiles anyways.

 

As a new entry, Armageddon looks to be a big winner now as well. Ignoring -1 AP has always been good, but now that you don't have to compare that to the old Tallarn trait I think it can make a good case for itself

Edited July 20, 2020 by zero88

[Shamansky]

SWS is only useful with the transport. Otherwise they are the glass cannon with the huge "Easy target" sign on it. They are usually the one way riders, which leads to conclusion that the best SWS 'with a transport' is Elysian SWS which actully doesn't need a transport because it can deep strike, which makes it comparatively the cheapest of all the Guard.

[GuardDaddy]

For consideration, SWS x3 can be put in strat reserve for 1cp

[Diagramdude]

I think Elysians went to legends?

[Shamansky]

I think Elysians went to legends?

Nope. They are in the latest IA FAQ

Edited July 20, 2020 by Shamansky

[DarthWaffle]

How do folks feel about Veterans? I have some with Shotguns I'm going to field regardless but do they have a place in 9th? 

[Brother Tyler]

I've removed a link to a bootleg copy of rules. While we generally allow images of leaks and stuff prior to a product's release, a .pdf scan of the entire book is clearly crossing the line. Those of you that don't yet have a copy of any impending rulebook will have to buy it yourself, look at a preview copy at a store, or look outside of the B&C for a bootleg copy.

 

=][=

[Mikhail the Valhallan]

@DarthWaffle I too have a shotgun veteran squad, with flamers no less, and while they're definitely not the most competitive, for pickup and friendly games I find them to be a nice tool in the bag when combined with a transport of your choosing, the lone space marine squad on a remote objective doesn't like that much strength 4 being thrown around. That's just my 2 cents

[Akrim]

Cant argue with the new low Vets cost even if they are wasting BS3, 3 flamers and a good number of bodies to lay a heavy amount of S3 down can do some damage to the right targets.

Im still keeping the plasmas with my Command Squad vets (Chimera-borne), that way they're guaranteed to be with the officer for Take Aim.