2 patrols or 1 battalion?

[aura_enchanted]

you lose the 2 cp but pickup 1 extra hq and have to take 1 less troop for a minimum army cutting out some of the less useful troops choice requirement units. you lose 2 elite slots but pick them up in heavy and fast with 1 more slot for each

 

good idea or bad?

 

Edited July 20, 2020 by aura_enchanted

[Berzul]

Well, I usually don't go over 4 elites in my army composition, so loosing those two slots is not that big a deal. I had not considered this structure, actually. Sounds like a sound plan, in order to maximize HQ choices for an army, and reducing troop mandatory takes.

 

I'll tinker with this idea, for a 1500 point list. I do expect that, at 2000, you will end up with points unable to be efficiently spent, with the slot limitations of the two patrols.

[ValourousHeart]

I don't know if it will matter much for people that want to play a battalion, sure they could save 55 points by not taking 1 scout squad, but what would they pick up that would make up for the fact that you need cheap units to do nothing during the turn to score VP.

 

The real question is for players that were playing Vanguard, Outrider or Spearhead detachments.  1 outrider detachment is 3 CP, whereas 2 Patrols are 2 CP.  You will have to take a 2nd HQ, but you were likely taking that 2nd HQ anyways.  You will also have to take 2 troops, but like I said you need cheap units to score VP.  Those 2 troop units will likely cost you one of your units, but not all of the points which could be used to bolster your remaining units.  You do lose 2 FA, Elite or HS slots from you chosen detachment, but you gain 2 for every other slot.

 

For both Spearhead and Outrider, shifting to 2 Patrols could be a viable alternative that doesn't gut your previous list too much with the 2 troops netting you +1 CP.  Vanguard detachment armies will have 2 choices, -3 CP for pure elites, -2 CP for taking 2 troops, and -0 CP for taking 3 troops.  Vanguard gain the most by going to Battalion because they go back up to 6 elites.  But with the cost of that 3rd troop will they actually get those 6 elites?

 

I'm not as excited about this direction, as I really like the way my list from 8th played and I didn't mind the irony of my opponent winning after being tabled because they choose to sit on objectives for 2-3 turns.

 

I'm looking forward to the weekend to see if I can build a win condition for my speeder army, or if I'm going to have to face the inevitable and field a couple slow units.

Edited July 20, 2020 by ValourousHeart

[Grand Master Raziel]

My post-Psychic Awakening list (that I never got to try out) was a double battalion with a big RW Bike Squad, a 10-man RWBK squad, and 3 Typhoon speeders (plus Sammael and a Talonmaster, natch), with the rest of the list rounded out with 5 Scout Squads (2 with sniper rifles), a 10-man Intercessor Squad, an Eliminator Squad, Ezekial, and a Techmarine (cause he's cheap, but I also figured he could fixee-fixee the speeder characters). I was using a double-bat because I wanted CP to fuel all the groovy Ravenwing strats. Now you're telling me I can get the CP with only 3 Troops choices? Or slightly less CP but only 2 Troops choices?

I think the most common lists are going to revolve around either single battalions or double patrols.  I don't think the minimum Troops in a battalion are going to be that onerous an expense even with the price hikes. Scout Squads will be, what, 70 points or so? Three of them are barely 10% of a 2000 pt list.

 

Plus, as previously mentioned, you'll want some Troops choices to sit on objectives and take VP-scoring actions, so your more killy stuff doesn't have to be tied down doing that. Why tie down 200ish points of Deathwing Terminators to minding an objective when you could have 70pts of Scouts do it? Or 100pts of Intercessors for double the wounds, a better armor save, and more reach from where they're standing?

[Berzul]

I do wonder if we will see many Vanguard, Spearhead or Outrider detachments this edition.

 

There ARE lists that go really heavy on elites or fast attack (specially fast attack) in our chapter, but most lists might do well with 4 slots of each. In a double patrol, that is as cheap as you are going to get.

[Phaeton]

I'll prefer 1 battalion. We still need tough scoring for primary objectives, and 3 squads of Intercessors do this very well. 

[Brother Bahram]

I do wonder if we will see many Vanguard, Spearhead or Outrider detachments this edition.

 

There ARE lists that go really heavy on elites or fast attack (specially fast attack) in our chapter, but most lists might do well with 4 slots of each. In a double patrol, that is as cheap as you are going to get.

I'm planning to run pure Deathwing with 3 LR - > Vanguard + Spearhed.

 

Are I'm going to win many games? No

Is is fun to play pure Deathwing? Hell yes!

[Fierce Bear]

I wonder if the CP tax of added battalions or outrider & spearhead detachments might lead to bigger units i.e. 6 and 10s over 3s and 5s and combat squading at deployment?

 

Especially if running an outrider, vanguard or spearhead as you are nearly able to run the same slots I.e. fast attack but for a lower CP tax...

 

Food for thought but two Patrol detachments seem very flexible which with brilliant strategist in the mix might be zero cost by round 2...

[Grand Master Raziel]

Interesting tidbit - Ravenwing Black Knights don't have the Combat Squads rule, even though they can be taken in squads of up to 10.

[jaxom]

I do wonder if we will see many Vanguard, Spearhead or Outrider detachments this edition.

 

There ARE lists that go really heavy on elites or fast attack (specially fast attack) in our chapter, but most lists might do well with 4 slots of each. In a double patrol, that is as cheap as you are going to get.

 

Yeah, I think much more so it will be players working out what they want to to take and then figuring out which detachment(s) get them there. 

[ValourousHeart]

This Battalion vs 2 Patrol vs Outrider is a hard call to make without having the book to determine how flexibly I'll be able to tailor my win condition.

 

My speeder list in 8th had Sableclaw, Talonmaster, 3 squads of 4 speeders (2 mostly AC, and 1 all TML), 2 Invictor War Suits, Dark Talon and a Nephilim, and the list had 4 CP.

 

In 9th it looks like at minimum I'm going to have to drop either Sableclaw or the Dark Talon, otherwise I have to drop either the Nephilim or a War Suit and down grade a Multi-Melta to a Heavy Bolter just to get the list back under 2000 points.

That will keep me in an Outrider detachment, but I'll be getting 9 CP to start and 14 CP by the end of the game for this list in 9th.

Lose 1 flyer and gain 10 CP, seems like a good deal.

 

If I switch to a Battalion I'll have to lose the Nephilim just to free up the minimum points for three 5 man scout squads.

The lose of that second flyer only nets me +3 CP which is hard to justify, unless the only way to build a win condition is to have troops holding objectives.

 

If I switch to the 2 Patrols I also lose the Nephilim to pick up the 2 scout squads, but then I have some points to play around with.

I could add a Land Speeder Storm with the points left over or I could drop 1 War Suit and pick up a Dark Talon.

All that would only net me +1 CP over the Outrider detachment.

 

It might sound weird but the storm sounds like the better option if I go 2 Patrols.

Yes I wouldn't have any of my flyers, but 10 scouts, 2 War Suits and a Storm sounds like it would be promising.

 

I could cut some land speeders to add back in the flyers, but the speeders are the workhorse of the army and the theme that I'm building the list around.