First 9.Ed List

[domsto]

Pretty much the Title

I tried to build a list similar to my 8.Ed Lists.

 

Regiment: Gunnery Experts,Deciplined Shooters

 

Brigade

HQ

Company Commander+Laspistol+Chainsword=35P

Company Commander+Laspistol+Chainsword=35P

Company Commander+Laspistol+Chainsword=35P

Tank Commander+Battlecannon+3 Heavy Bolter=220P

Tank Commander+Executioner Plasmacannon+Heavy Bolter+2 Plasma Cannons=210P

Troops

Infantry Squad+Plasmagun=55P

Infantry Squad+Plasmagun=55P

Infantry Squad+Plasmagun=55P

Infantry Squad+Plasmagun=55P

Infantry Squad+Plasmagun=55P

Infantry Squad+Plasmagun=55P

Elite

Astropath+laspistol=25P

Astropath+laspistol=25P

Astropath+laspistol=25P

Platoon Commander+Laspistol+Chainsword=25P Warlord(Master of Command) Relic(Kurov's Aquila)

Fast Attack

Armored Sentinal+Autocannon=45P

Armored Sentinal+Autocannon=45P

Armored Sentinal+Autocannon=45P

Heavy Support

Basilisk+Heavy Bolter=125P

Basilisk+Heavy Bolter=125P

Basilisk+Heavy Bolter=125P

Heavy Weapons Squad+3 Mortar=51P

Heavy Weapons Squad+3 Mortar=51P

 

Patrol

HQ

Tank Commander+Executioner Plasmacannon+Heavy Bolter+2 Plasma Cannons=210P

Troops

Infantry Squad+Meltagun=55P

Infantry Squad+Meltagun=55P

Infantry Squad+Meltagun=55P

 

Total=1997Points 10CP

 

Problems i ran into while Building the List:

1. The hight Price tag on the Heavy Bolter really hurts, as every Vehical have to have one. 15Points seem way overcostet.

2. The new Command Point System hurts Guard. It is pretty Hard to squeeze everything into a single Detachment AND have a well rounded, working Army.

3. 12CP seems way to few. as GW seems to push Stratagems even further in 9.Ed but you can't afford any Pregame stratagems like Tank Ace,Speciallist Detachments,... or you will start the Game on a huge disadvantage as CP remain the most importan Resource.

4. Our Vehicals are still vulnerable to the bad touch as our Damage dealing Guns are all Blast now. And Heavy Bolters can't clear anything more durable than a Guardsmen.

5. Bolters in any shape or Form(Bolter,Boltpistol,Stormbolter,..) are to exspencive Pointswise to be a real Option now in my Opinion

6.Blast is nice, but doens't solve the Random Shoots Problematic as it only Triggers against Infantry and our most reliable Anti Tanks guns also happen to be Blast.

 

But enougt complaints for now;)

 

What do you think about the List?

I am not sure about the Autocannon 15Poins seem a bit hight for the Damage Potential

Edited July 20, 2020 by domsto

[HallofStovokor]

Heavy flamers might be the answer. They're the same price as HBs. I'm on the fence about them, as I don't like weapons that are useless unless I'm already tagged in melee.

 

How insane is it that Marines and sisters have free bolters, but we must pay 2 points for the privilege to have a bolter or bolt pistol? I guess that we should be thankful that others storm bolter only went up by 1.

Edited July 20, 2020 by HallofStovokor

[tychobi]

Patrol seems bolted on. Stuff em into the brigade, there is room. Looks like a nasty list otherwise. Your concerns are valid but also go for everyone else. 9th is going to be very aggressive and objective focused so move move move and grab those VP early!

[domsto]

Patrol seems bolted on. Stuff em into the brigade, there is room. Looks like a nasty list otherwise. Your concerns are valid but also go for everyone else. 9th is going to be very aggressive and objective focused so move move move and grab those VP early!

i really loved to do, but the Brigade has only 5 HQ Slots so i had to find a way to make room for the needed HQs for the List to work.

[GuardDaddy]

12 CP + 5 during game.

[Captain Caine 24th]

I like the list. I think just plotting a list out and getting a feel for it is the starting point. Part of me is thinking about rushing onto objectives with chimeras or valkyries, and part of me is thinking it'd be best to flood the board with units in a Brigade. So, here's the questions I'm debating on your list:  

1. I agree Blast is limited. Frankly (if I'm reading the rules right, which is a big "if") if tanks shoot into combat it happens in their shooting phase. I feel like enemy units with thunder hammers are going to kill my tanks before that happens. Also, now that I have way less CP with Guard, I feel like I don't want to use the "crush them" stratagem to hit on a 2+ in melee, nearly as often. Anyway, I think the 'big guns never tire' ability to shoot in melee helps mitigate some assault shenanigans, but screening infantry units are still essential. 
2. I'm torn on heavy bolter prices myself. 15 a pop is steep on tanks.
3. Can you kill vehicles, tanks, and knights at a sufficient rate. I keep hearing I need to be able to kill a knight per turn. 
4. 9 infantry squads is hopefully enough. I think some missions have 6 objectives. A lot of units will be needed to survive long enough to make it there. A sole melta gun typically doesn't do much for me on those three patrol squads. I'ad almost rather have vet squads with 3x melta go into strategic reserves and pop up turn 2-3.  
5. I was thinking about scout sentinels to push onto early objectives instead of armored sentinels.
6. Can you counter enemy reserves effectively to keep those basilisks firing? I do like that they can move without penalty now.

[domsto]

 

I like the list. I think just plotting a list out and getting a feel for it is the starting point. Part of me is thinking about rushing onto objectives with chimeras or valkyries, and part of me is thinking it'd be best to flood the board with units in a Brigade. So, here's the questions I'm debating on your list:  

1. I agree Blast is limited. Frankly (if I'm reading the rules right, which is a big "if") if tanks shoot into combat it happens in their shooting phase. I feel like enemy units with thunder hammers are going to kill my tanks before that happens. Also, now that I have way less CP with Guard, I feel like I don't want to use the "crush them" stratagem to hit on a 2+ in melee, nearly as often. Anyway, I think the 'big guns never tire' ability to shoot in melee helps mitigate some assault shenanigans, but screening infantry units are still essential. 
2. I'm torn on heavy bolter prices myself. 15 a pop is steep on tanks.
3. Can you kill vehicles, tanks, and knights at a sufficient rate. I keep hearing I need to be able to kill a knight per turn. 
4. 9 infantry squads is hopefully enough. I think some missions have 6 objectives. A lot of units will be needed to survive long enough to make it there. A sole melta gun typically doesn't do much for me on those three patrol squads. I'ad almost rather have vet squads with 3x melta go into strategic reserves and pop up turn 2-3.  
5. I was thinking about scout sentinels to push onto early objectives instead of armored sentinels.
6. Can you counter enemy reserves effectively to keep those basilisks firing? I do like that they can move without penalty now.

 

Thanks for the input

Now to your points

 

1. The most common thing to do is still to just touch the Tank with some Models and the Tank is shut down instead of actually killing it, sadly this is still 100% Valid in 9.Ed. to be Honest i am disapointed in the "Big guns never tire" Rule. Would have been better to just say you can't lock a Vehical in CC. Simple and effecktiv.

2. I already Emailed GW about it, hopefully they change the Points to a more apropiate level. Like 10Points, or heck leave it at 8. The Heavy Bolter isn't anywhere close to be a good Weapon. He is,was and will ever be just a tax.

3. Seeing as almost all our Vehicals got a hefty Price hike i am not sure about it. But i am not to consern about Kinghts. Maybe we can't kill them but they sure lose on the Objectiv game. I am more concern about Multiwound MSU Units like Primaris and Custodes. That's why the Plasma instead of the Battlecannon.

4. I am hoping on the new Terrain Rules. Normaly 60 Guardsmen die Turn 1 in 8.Ed. I am not sure about the Melta either. I just wanted to try it out.

5. Also was thinking about it. But as Objective can't be scored on the First turn, i am not sure if it is nessecary.

6. Counting on the HWTs and Tanks for Arial deny. Also my Plan is to move the whole Firebase every Turn to cover the most ground possible. It's really nice to finally have Vehicals instead of Static Guns on Tracks. This will be the most game changing thing for me.

[domsto]

12 CP + 5 during game.

Still

Starting with only 8CP into the game while the enemy most likely to have the full 12CP is a huge disadvantage and limits your options.

Even gaining CP slowly every Turn won't change much as most Games will be over on Turn 3 or 4 anyway

realy hoping for a Change here. Maybe some Commandphase tricks on gain more CP Guard could get if they get a new Codex for 9.Ed

[DarthWaffle]

Patrol seems bolted on. Stuff em into the brigade, there is room. Looks like a nasty list otherwise. Your concerns are valid but also go for everyone else. 9th is going to be very aggressive and objective focused so move move move and grab those VP early!

 

I think this is a good call. Slam it into a brigade and max out those CP's.  I think you could drop a company commander in favor of a platoon commander.

[Santaclauswitz]

Dormsto you've under costed the tc's with plasma sponsons by 20 points. They should cost 230 each not 210.

[domsto]

Dormsto you've under costed the tc's with plasma sponsons by 20 points. They should cost 230 each not 210.

You are right that i undercosted it. But 230 is also wrong. In my Calcualtion it is 155p(TC)+15(Turret)+15(HB)+40(Plasma Sponson)=225

 

God i hate those new Points...

[Santaclauswitz]

 

Dormsto you've under costed the tc's with plasma sponsons by 20 points. They should cost 230 each not 210.

You are right that i undercosted it. But 230 is also wrong. In my Calcualtion it is 155p(TC)+15(Turret)+15(HB)+40(Plasma Sponson)=225

 

God i hate those new Points...

Note to self: when correcting someone else's maths make sure your own maths is correct!!! Haha, I'll take my socks and shoes off next time so I've more digits to count. My error was I automatically include las canons instead of heavy bolters on most variants of tank commanders.

 

I do like your list. The only things I'd think about changing are the autocannons on the sentinels. I'd go with multi lasers and then upgrade your tank commanders to have a las cannon and hunter killer missile each to benefit from the more durable russ chassis and +1 bs of the commander. There's not much difference between the multi laser and heavy bolter in all reality so you're not really losing that much. The las cannon/ hunter killer combo is better in my opinion than autocannons.

[domsto]

Well played my first two games with the List now.

It faild Completely.

Both Games where crushing defeats.

The First game i got tabled Turn 3 by Marines

Secound Game i lost objectiv wise against death Guard. Really hard to hold a Objectiv a whole enemy Turn with some T3 5+ Dudes.

Guard fells frustatingly weaker this Edition.

I have to radicaly rethink my way of Listbuilding.

 

Things i learnd:

Blast is useless and more a handicap as a buff.

You need a Way to make your Obsec Units more durable. As my Infantry got almost evertime blown of the Objectiv.

Secondarys are brutal for Guard.

As there are many which only include "Kill X for X Points"

Which are easy wins against an Army thst is designt to have expandible Units

Edited July 30, 2020 by domsto

[Akrim]

Ill say this Domsto - its a very shooty list, but you lack significant mobile assets.

 

9th ed is heavily about board and objective marker control. Infantry squads will struggle to maintain control without getting shot off.

 

Looking at secondaries - Thin Ranks is an obvious choice against you as you have a mountain of wounds.

 

Prehaps try to include some units that can advance into the battlefield faster - ex Sents, Hellhounds, Valkyries, etc.

 

I frequently go for the occupy table quarters one, and usually big game if enemy tanks are present.

 

Character hunting one isnt bad if they have a lot of lesser characters.

 

(PS im using the same custom doctrine as you.)